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How do you perceive capitalism?

How do you perceive capitalism?


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It has never existed because Socialism requires state control of all economic activity and a vast army of officials.

Thank you for confirming this clarification. I don't know how many times I have posted that very same explanation on this forum.

It evidently takes time for it to "sink in". Some on this forum are confusing Social Democracy and Socialism ...
 
Thank you for confirming this clarification. I don't know how many times I have posted that very same explanation on this forum.

It evidently takes time for it to "sink in". Some on this forum are confusing Social Democracy and Socialism ...

Hitler was a democratic National socialist until he had enough power to end democracy. Do you understand? Socialism is inherently about govt power not democratic power. Now do you understand? Obamacare was not socialist enough for the Sanders commie. He wants full blown commie health care and has called for govt ownership of major industries!! Do you understand?
 
Hitler was a democratic National socialist until he had enough power to end democracy. Do you understand? Socialism is inherently about govt power not democratic power. Now do you understand? Obamacare was not socialist enough for the Sanders commie. He wants full blown commie health care and has called for govt ownership of major industries!! Do you understand?

We all understand. You've made it abundantly clear that Lafayette is right. Some people conflate Democratic Socialist with Naziism and with the Communism of the old Soviet Union, when it's really more like what we're seeing work in the nations of Western Europe.
 
I often think that the only reason people call themselves capitalist is that they conflate capitalism with free enterprise.

I see them as separate matters. Free enterprise (that is, to choose one's own productive role in society) is very nearly a natural right, but capitalism is not its determinant. I label myself anti-capitalist because I disagree with paying people 50 cents for a dollars worth of economic output. That is, of course, largely based on my perception of capitalism (D & C), just as its proponents undoubtedly support it based on theirs.

It's all about making profit regardless of anything else. That is why watch dog groups exist. They exist to protect such things as the environment, labor, health....
 
Other. For the pursuit of profit, any sense of morality is thrown out of the window. How we treat animals, people, the planet, is morally disgusting and is not only accepted but defended because people can buy more material things, when even America is not happy according to the anti depressant numbers. So surely, this must be great!
 
Hopefully this doesn't mean capitalism is moral?
I would say that, on this Earth, it is the least moral system available, except for all the others.

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Then it's not Socialism. In Western Europe as you want to use as an example is actually Capitalist with heavy regulation. The market is not Socialist but Government is and that is the difference.

LOL what ??

Socialism is social ownership of the means of production.

Saying the markets are capitalist but the governments are socialist is complete nonsense.
 
We who live in the free capitalistic societies of the world have a much better shot at being able to feed, clothe, and house ourselves than do people who live in the few socialist "worker's paradises" left on Earth. The difference is freedom to make one's own decisions and to live with the results of those decisions.

Do we?

Not a single developed nation actually has a "free capitalistic society." All of them -- even America -- have a heavy overlay of socialism or some other moderating factor, and have for over a century at the very least, in order to make society somewhat less barbaric.

There are a great number of things private companies and citizens cannot do, even in America. There are a great number of things we believe people are entitled to even if they're poor, even in America.

I can think of no greater mark against capitalism than the fact that no halfway decent society has ever been willing to implement it in full, or anything close to it.

But even as restricted as it is, we still see endless problems whose roots lead straight back to capitalistic ways of thinking: the commodification of human beings, short term gain over long term stability, profit over basic humane treatment...
 
Do we?

Not a single developed nation actually has a "free capitalistic society." All of them -- even America -- have a heavy overlay of socialism or some other moderating factor, and have for over a century at the very least, in order to make society somewhat less barbaric.

There are a great number of things private companies and citizens cannot do, even in America. There are a great number of things we believe people are entitled to even if they're poor, even in America.

I can think of no greater mark against capitalism than the fact that no halfway decent society has ever been willing to implement it in full, or anything close to it.

But even as restricted as it is, we still see endless problems whose roots lead straight back to capitalistic ways of thinking: the commodification of human beings, short term gain over long term stability, profit over basic humane treatment...

Government regulation is a much disliked necessity to be sure. There really is no such thing as "pure" capitalism, i.e., not regulated by government. And yes, some things are better paid for collectively. Private roads don't work out so well, and private, for profit health care is proving too expensive.

But, if you look at the nations that have tried to collectivize everything, the old Soviet Union failed, Venezuela is quickly failing, and China has adopted much that is capitalistic and experienced a growing economy.
 
Government regulation is a much disliked necessity to be sure. There really is no such thing as "pure" capitalism, i.e., not regulated by government. And yes, some things are better paid for collectively. Private roads don't work out so well, and private, for profit health care is proving too expensive.

But, if you look at the nations that have tried to collectivize everything, the old Soviet Union failed, Venezuela is quickly failing, and China has adopted much that is capitalistic and experienced a growing economy.

And why is that? Might it be because simple capitalism actually leaves an awful lot of people poor, starving, or even homeless?

It isn't just big things like roads that don't work well in a mostly or fully capitalistic framework. It's also little things, like ensuring employers pay people enough to live decently.

Look what happened when we started privatizing prisons. Prison deaths shot through the roof, and some of them even say right on their pamphlet their their goal is to increase recidivism. Their goal is to leave inmates unable to function in the real world, so they will go back to crime and back to prison.

You are acting as though the extreme end of socialism is the only alternative to capitalism.

Yes, and look how that turned out for China. They have a few rich people, and hordes of people living in ghettos making a few bucks a day and still dying of typhoid and polio, children dying from being poisoned during their day job, which is sorting through mountains of trash by hand. Growing economy =/= good place to live.
 
Capitalism isn't moral.

Imagine how brainwashed a person would have to be to write that when capitalism is based on morality. Under capitalism either you provide the best jobs and products possible or you go bankrupt.
 
And why is that? Might it be because simple capitalism actually leaves an awful lot of people poor, starving, or even homeless?

100000% brainwashed. China just switched to Republican capitalism and instantly eliminated 40% of the entire planets poverty. Under libsocialism 60 million slowly starved to death, today, under Republican capitalism 60 million can buy cars. Do you understand now?
 
Imagine how brainwashed a person would have to be to write that when capitalism is based on morality. Under capitalism either you provide the best jobs and products possible or you go bankrupt.

Terrific but that doesn't address misusing the environment or labor for example. I could go on and on, but the point is capitalism is not moral.
 
Yes, and look how that turned out for China.
yes greatest miracle in human history, They switched to capitalism from libsocialism, and instantly eliminated 40% of the entire planets poverty!!

Do you have the character and courage to learn from those obvious facts?
 
Terrific but that doesn't address misusing the environment or labor for example. I could go on and on, but the point is capitalism is not moral.

under capitalism you can't misuse labor. either you provide the best jobs possible or you go bankrupt.
 
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