How do you handle gun free zone?

[Skeptic Bob]

This is US specific. I realize there are different rules for different localities but in general, where concealed carry is legal, there are two main types of gun free zones. There are places declared gun free by the government. These may be government buildings, banks, public transportation and such. If you get caught carrying in such a place at a minimum you may lose your permit to carry. Worst case is jail time.

Then there are private gun free zones. Maybe a movie theater or restaurant puts up a sign saying it doesn't allow guns. The worst case if you get caught carrying in such a place is you can be asked to leave.

I think it is safe to say you shouldn't carry in a government mandated gun free zone. But what about private gun free zones? What is your stance? Personally, I would prefer to give my business to a place that isn't a gun free zone but if that is not an option at that time, and I am well concealed, I may go in anyway. In the unlikely event the business finds out and tells me to leave, I will leave with no objection. Because then it could be trespassing and that IS illegal.

What do you think? Is that wrong of me?

 

[FieldTheorist]

This is US specific. I realize there are different rules for different localities but in general, where concealed carry is legal, there are two main types of gun free zones. There are places declared gun free by the government. These may be government buildings, banks, public transportation and such. If you get caught carrying in such a place at a minimum you may lose your permit to carry. Worst case is jail time.

Then there are private gun free zones. Maybe a movie theater or restaurant puts up a sign saying it doesn't allow guns. The worst case if you get caught carrying in such a place is you can be asked to leave.

I think it is safe to say you shouldn't carry in a government mandated gun free zone. But what about private gun free zones? What is your stance? Personally, I would prefer to give my business to a place that isn't a gun free zone but if that is not an option at that time, and I am well concealed, I may go in anyway. In the unlikely event the business finds out and tells me to leave, I will leave with no objection. Because then it could be trespassing and that IS illegal.

What do you think? Is that wrong of me?

While I am not against guns (I'm for more common sense gun control, but hardly against guns), I don't have a problem with gun-free zones. I don't carry (I've shot plenty of guns before, I'm a half-way decent shot) because I don't own a gun. I don't really see this changing in the future, either. Maybe if I lived out where there were lots of gun ranges, I might consider buying one for sport. But right now, it would be an extravagant luxury, I don't live near any gun ranges, I live in a city so not merely every building but whole sections of where I live are city-mandated gun-free zones, almost all businesses are gun-free zones, where I work is 100% a gun-free zone, and I feel perfectly safe in the city that I live in.

When I campaigned for Obama in 2008, I did GOTV right in the middle of the most depressed area of my city; I didn't carry a gun there, and frankly, I didn't feel unsafe. Maybe that's because I'm a brash asshole and it takes a lot to get me scared of another person, but I just don't see the point in carrying everywhere where I would need to be worried about this question.

 

[Grand Mal]

This is US specific. I realize there are different rules for different localities but in general, where concealed carry is legal, there are two main types of gun free zones. There are places declared gun free by the government. These may be government buildings, banks, public transportation and such. If you get caught carrying in such a place at a minimum you may lose your permit to carry. Worst case is jail time.

Then there are private gun free zones. Maybe a movie theater or restaurant puts up a sign saying it doesn't allow guns. The worst case if you get caught carrying in such a place is you can be asked to leave.

I think it is safe to say you shouldn't carry in a government mandated gun free zone. But what about private gun free zones? What is your stance? Personally, I would prefer to give my business to a place that isn't a gun free zone but if that is not an option at that time, and I am well concealed, I may go in anyway. In the unlikely event the business finds out and tells me to leave, I will leave with no objection. Because then it could be trespassing and that IS illegal.

What do you think? Is that wrong of me?

Can't address gun-free zones, carrying handguns isn't allowed here anywhere, but I have no problem with ignoring rules and laws I don't like. Laws and rules are for when people in charge don't trust the judgement of the ones they're in charge of. Laws and rules are made to take away decisions. If you trust your own judgement you often find yourself on the other side of laws and rules.
'Course, lots of people who shouldn't be allowed to dress themselves without supervision believe they're top-ten intelligent and will inevitably screw up big-time.

 

[Winchester]

This is US specific. I realize there are different rules for different localities but in general, where concealed carry is legal, there are two main types of gun free zones. There are places declared gun free by the government. These may be government buildings, banks, public transportation and such. If you get caught carrying in such a place at a minimum you may lose your permit to carry. Worst case is jail time.

Then there are private gun free zones. Maybe a movie theater or restaurant puts up a sign saying it doesn't allow guns. The worst case if you get caught carrying in such a place is you can be asked to leave.

I think it is safe to say you shouldn't carry in a government mandated gun free zone. But what about private gun free zones? What is your stance? Personally, I would prefer to give my business to a place that isn't a gun free zone but if that is not an option at that time, and I am well concealed, I may go in anyway. In the unlikely event the business finds out and tells me to leave, I will leave with no objection. Because then it could be trespassing and that IS illegal.

What do you think? Is that wrong of me?

I'd respect their wish, it's their place of business and if that's the rules they want. so be it, whether I agree with them or not. Go there unarmed or don't go. Practically speaking nothing will come of it much like a transgender using the bathroom of their choice (at least before all the hubbub).

 

[OrphanSlug]

This is US specific. I realize there are different rules for different localities but in general, where concealed carry is legal, there are two main types of gun free zones. There are places declared gun free by the government. These may be government buildings, banks, public transportation and such. If you get caught carrying in such a place at a minimum you may lose your permit to carry. Worst case is jail time.

Then there are private gun free zones. Maybe a movie theater or restaurant puts up a sign saying it doesn't allow guns. The worst case if you get caught carrying in such a place is you can be asked to leave.

I think it is safe to say you shouldn't carry in a government mandated gun free zone. But what about private gun free zones? What is your stance? Personally, I would prefer to give my business to a place that isn't a gun free zone but if that is not an option at that time, and I am well concealed, I may go in anyway. In the unlikely event the business finds out and tells me to leave, I will leave with no objection. Because then it could be trespassing and that IS illegal.

What do you think? Is that wrong of me?

There really is no good way to "handle" gun free zones other than to avoid them whenever possible and know the limits of one's concealed carry permit. There will be plenty of times between public and private owned locations where avoiding these zones is just not possible, how we define these rights today puts the concealed carry holder in a position of having to know when to not carry. The onus is, and probably should always, be on the concealer permit holder.

What we should be talking about is what gun free zones really means, and what it accomplishes (or does not accomplish.)

It is unrealistic to assume that everyone will follow laws down to the letter all the time, and as such we can conclude that not everyone is unarmed in a gun free zone all the time. If someone is willing to break several laws perhaps even going so far as to trade their lives to ensure others lose their lives, then it is also unrealistic to assume a gun free zone is the one thing that stops that person.

These are not reasons to follow suit and break laws yourself just to ensure you are armed all the time, but they are reasons to evaluate what these efforts really accomplish. It is easy to argue that the effectiveness of gun free zones is limited to those willing to follow the law, and also easy to argue that if someone wants to harm many facing little to no defense doing so then going to a gun free zone will accomplish the most damage in shortest time-frame. So in that context, it now no longer matters on the technical differences between a private and public gun free zone, the impact is the only ones unarmed are those following the law (and/or the wishes and policy of the property owner.)

I would agree it is not wise to take the risk of carrying concealed weapons in a public or private gun free zone, the odds of dealing with someone else armed is much smaller than dealing with the police or property owner telling you that you are in the wrong. *However,* everyone ultimately is going to have to make their own choice on what they are willing to risk and why. Generally speaking they probably will anyway, no matter what your or my own opinion is on any law.

The real reason for going through all of this is to illustrate the mere presence of a law itself is not the exclusive means to ensure it is followed.

 

[chuckiechan]

It depends. If it's government, then a law was written to prevent citizens from bringing guns in, and the law is enforced.

If it's private sector, like a movie theater, all they can do is tell you to leave. And unless you are a jerk, no one should know you are carrying except someone who knows what to look for. Then you have the "challenge" problem. Does a movie theater owner have the right to frisk me? Not unless she's cute.

 

[TurtleDude]

It depends. If it's government, then a law was written to prevent citizens from bringing guns in, and the law is enforced.

If it's private sector, like a movie theater, all they can do is tell you to leave. And unless you are a jerk, no one should know you are carrying except someone who knows what to look for. Then you have the "challenge" problem. Does a movie theater owner have the right to frisk me? Not unless she's cute.

agreed. If you think the GFZ is unsafe and you have to go there, trust me-the ramifications of NOT having a gun if you need it will be far worse than having a gun and having the manager tell you to bugger off.

 

[chuckiechan]

The advice I give is "If you think you need a gun, don't go."

 

[Lutherf]

This is US specific. I realize there are different rules for different localities but in general, where concealed carry is legal, there are two main types of gun free zones. There are places declared gun free by the government. These may be government buildings, banks, public transportation and such. If you get caught carrying in such a place at a minimum you may lose your permit to carry. Worst case is jail time.

Then there are private gun free zones. Maybe a movie theater or restaurant puts up a sign saying it doesn't allow guns. The worst case if you get caught carrying in such a place is you can be asked to leave.

I think it is safe to say you shouldn't carry in a government mandated gun free zone. But what about private gun free zones? What is your stance? Personally, I would prefer to give my business to a place that isn't a gun free zone but if that is not an option at that time, and I am well concealed, I may go in anyway. In the unlikely event the business finds out and tells me to leave, I will leave with no objection. Because then it could be trespassing and that IS illegal.

What do you think? Is that wrong of me?

It depends. As a rule I try to respect the wishes of the property owner but that's not always convenient or practical. For example, we have a street fair in town a couple of times a year and last time I went there were signs posted that prohibited firearms. I was carrying and had been dropped off with a group of out of town friends while the car was parked. It wasn't practical to leave them to go back to wherever the car ended up so I just kept my mouth shut and went along. I've done the same running in to pick up a pizza on the way home and such but if I know ahead of time that the place prohibits firearms I'll try to accommodate them.

 

[BitterPill]

This is US specific. I realize there are different rules for different localities but in general, where concealed carry is legal, there are two main types of gun free zones. There are places declared gun free by the government. These may be government buildings, banks, public transportation and such. If you get caught carrying in such a place at a minimum you may lose your permit to carry. Worst case is jail time.

Then there are private gun free zones. Maybe a movie theater or restaurant puts up a sign saying it doesn't allow guns. The worst case if you get caught carrying in such a place is you can be asked to leave.

I think it is safe to say you shouldn't carry in a government mandated gun free zone. But what about private gun free zones? What is your stance? Personally, I would prefer to give my business to a place that isn't a gun free zone but if that is not an option at that time, and I am well concealed, I may go in anyway. In the unlikely event the business finds out and tells me to leave, I will leave with no objection. Because then it could be trespassing and that IS illegal.

What do you think? Is that wrong of me?

I fail to see an appreciable difference between a government gun free zone and a private one. If you think you should be able to carry wherever you like, why would it matter?

 

[BitterPill]

It depends. As a rule I try to respect the wishes of the property owner but that's not always convenient or practical. For example, we have a street fair in town a couple of times a year and last time I went there were signs posted that prohibited firearms. I was carrying and had been dropped off with a group of out of town friends while the car was parked. It wasn't practical to leave them to go back to wherever the car ended up so I just kept my mouth shut and went along. I've done the same running in to pick up a pizza on the way home and such but if I know ahead of time that the place prohibits firearms I'll try to accommodate them.

Accommodating the TSA is an especially good idea if you plan to fly on a passenger plane.

 

[Lutherf]

Accommodating the TSA is an especially good idea if you plan to fly on a passenger plane.

Y'know, I was talking to a traveling companion last week about the TSA. They go through all the trouble of of making you take your shoes and belt off. The make you empty your pockets and microwave you. They X-ray your stuff, steal your toothpaste and subject everything to a physical search just so they can make sure you don't have anything more deadly than 3.5oz of shampoo on you. Then, once you're screened, they send you into the terminal where the restaurants give you a steel knife and fork. They also won't screw with you if you have 10 3.5oz bottles of stuff and the gift shops will be happy to sell you a container large enough to combine your ingredients if you really want to make a bomb.

TSA is all glitz and no glory. It's an act so that some schmuck in congress can say "See, we did something!!"

 

[BitterPill]

Y'know, I was talking to a traveling companion last week about the TSA. They go through all the trouble of of making you take your shoes and belt off. The make you empty your pockets and microwave you. They X-ray your stuff, steal your toothpaste and subject everything to a physical search just so they can make sure you don't have anything more deadly than 3.5oz of shampoo on you. Then, once you're screened, they send you into the terminal where the restaurants give you a steel knife and fork. They also won't screw with you if you have 10 3.5oz bottles of stuff and the gift shops will be happy to sell you a container large enough to combine your ingredients if you really want to make a bomb.

TSA is all glitz and no glory. It's an act so that some schmuck in congress can say "See, we did something!!"

Suit yourself then, and be sure to let us know what happens if the TSA finds your weapon during screening.

 

[Skeptic Bob]

The advice I give is "If you think you need a gun, don't go."

If you think you are going to need a seatbelt you probably shouldn't drive that route.

 

[Skeptic Bob]

I fail to see an appreciable difference between a government gun free zone and a private one. If you think you should be able to carry wherever you like, why would it matter?

I am willing to be kicked out of an establishment for carrying. I am not willing to go to jail for it.

 

[BitterPill]

I am willing to be kicked out of an establishment for carrying. I am not willing to go to jail for it.

So if you could be jailed for entering a gun-free establishment with a firearm, you wouldn't do it.

Fair enough.