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How Do We Fix Immigration?

The whole wall is not paid for. And it would be a waste of money better spent elsewhere, spent on reuniting families separated by Trump.
Geesh Another Bidenick. Wait until the next presidential election. You’re going see that wall go up, and just maybe some illegal immigrants go back to their countries of origin. It will be reunification alright.
 
Decades and decades of immigration, both legal and illegal have brought us to this point in time. Immigration has built our nation, but some people think immigration is destroying our nation. Congress has failed to act during both Republican and Democratic majorities.

What needs to be done?

What should Congress do?

Let's hear all the ideas.

Maybe we can brainstorm a solution.

Here are some ideas, all over the map:
 
Because believing otherwise would be stupid and ignorant.

That's a false claim. 438 miles of new wall was built.

It does not matter what you choose to believe.

Yawn.......

Yes there is. It's a matter of willingness. Other nations have effective border control. There is no reason we cannot as well.

Ya think the Border Patrol is goofing off? Or is the problem bigger than the Border Patrol can handle.

I bet the Border Patrol is doing all they can but they can't watch that many miles of border 24-7. People are going to get in. And walls are not going to stop them. They will figure out ways to get past a wall. They will destroy walls, tunnel under them, or use devices to go over them.

Other countries do not have the same problem because each country is unique. We created a huge mess in Central America with our drug war, and this is the result. We need to deal with the source of the problem.

We need creative solutions.

Maybe we should offer to just make everything between Canada and South America all part of the USA. Expand our nation. Add States. And while we are at it, include Puerto Rico and DC as new States. That would make America much stronger and make America greater. Sure, we would have more cultures and languages to mix, but it might be worth while. There could be a lot of benefit to the idea.
 
Right, just who was it that torched so many cities in 2020? Who was it that essentially had Pacific Northwest cities under siege? And who is it who is now chucking Molotov cocktails at headquarters of pro-life advocates?
Cherry-picked examples. And there is no proof that all of the unrest in cities is caused by the left. There are right wing infiltrators who go into peaceful protests and become instigators who cause violence just to make the protest look bad.

There are some really messed up people on the right. Very hateful and quite violent. It is very foolish to align with such people in support of candidates who are so shameless they will court the extremist vote. Such support is irresponsible citizenship and it hurts the USA.

Rpublicans stole a Supreme Court seat using dirty tricks and failing to do as the Constitution says. The Senate is supposed to confirm or reject a nomination. Just because there is no recourse for McConnell pigeon holing a nomination for 9 months does not mean he did the right thing. He screwed the nation big time with partisan hackery.

It wasn't worth it. We are in for a rough ride.
 


This is BS ^
That happens to be fact. It's in the court records.
 
Geesh Another Bidenick. Wait until the next presidential election. You’re going see that wall go up, and just maybe some illegal immigrants go back to their countries of origin. It will be reunification alright.
If our drug war made life unlivable back home for them then maybe it's our problem all the way around. And besides. We could use some willing workers. Have you seen the unemployment rate? Record low.
 
It is very foolish to align with such people in support of candidates who are so shameless they will court the extremist vote.
You mean like candidates supporting abortion for any or no reason right up to the point of birth? Now those are serious extremists.
 
If our drug war made life unlivable back home for them then maybe it's our problem all the way around. And besides. We could use some willing workers. Have you seen the unemployment rate? Record low.
Yes. The US is a horrible country. Guilty of doing so much harm worldwide. I wish all of the progressives would leave so things would improve.
 
You mean like candidates supporting abortion for any or no reason right up to the point of birth? Now those are serious extremists.
No.
 
Yes. The US is a horrible country. Guilty of doing so much harm worldwide. I wish all of the progressives would leave so things would improve.
If all progressives left the USA, a large portion of jobs would suddenly not get done. The economy would go into a tailspin, and a recession would surely ensue, possibly descending into a depression. Marriages and families would be broken up, people in despair.

It would be a tragedy.

Good thing that is just fantasy. We need all of us to make this country work. Progressives and conservatives, working together, keeping one another in check, is our best way forward. Freedom to hold and voice all views. Just as surely as Tucker Carlson convinces people to be afraid of other people, more people do not watch him than do. And those who are not under his spell do not aspire to isolationism and hatred.

Respect for one another, and for our freedom to hold various views, is our best way forward.

Trying to get everyone to think and talk the same way sounds like communism to me. Not freedom.
 
Good summary of the issue, except for one thing: labor and unions. I repeat what I have posted before: In the 1940s we created the "bracero" (hired hand) program, importing workers from Mexico to cover the farm labor shortage the war caused. WWII ended in 1945. The bracero program somehow didn't end til 1964. The first successful strike of farmworkers that produced a union contract: 1965. Not a coincidence. Start paying farmworkers, hotel maids, sweatshop workers the wages and salaries union construction workers or steelworkers get, and non-illegals will start taking those jobs. But we like cheap labor. We still import some Caribbean workers to harvest cane.

We are caught in contradictions. Conservative politicians have the opportunity to bash illegal migration, while their political allies in business have the opportunity to employ illegals. Those conservatives wouldn't think of doubling the minimum wage, strictly enforcing labor, safety and pesticide regulations, supporting unions, all of which might make the jobs illegals take more attractive to legals and citizens. When I first moved to California in 1961, white suburban kids I met in high school kids talked of picking fruit in the summer. That doesn't happen any more to the best of my knowledge. Comedian Paul Rodriguez said it best after actor Bo Derek criticized illegal immigration: "Don't like it, strap on a leaf-blower, Bo."
More revisionist history.

The Bracero program for migrant agricultural workers was killed by organized lobbying of Ceasar Chavez's United Farm Workers union because it supposedly undercut wages. Chavez also opposed illegal immigration for the same reason.

With millions surging illegally accross the border to take low wage jobs it makes zero sense to force increased wages while leaving the border open. That's going to encourage more illegal immigration not less.

Coercing employers into acting as immigration agents while there is no effective control over the border, sanctuary jurisdictions encourage breaking Federal law, and identity theft by illegals isn't prosecuted is only going to discourage hiring accross the board.

How would employers determine the immigration status of applicants? EVerify has an unlimited time to make a determination of employment status during which time the employer is barred from any adverse action towards the employee.
 
More revisionist history.

The Bracero program for migrant agricultural workers was killed by organized lobbying of Ceasar Chavez's United Farm Workers union because it supposedly undercut wages. Chavez also opposed illegal immigration for the same reason.
How does that contradict what I said? I was just being ironic about how a temporary WWII program lasted almost 20 years after V-J day. I also assume Cesar worked to get rid of the program. I worked with the union for a few years, in the fields, on the boycott and in its legal office. Even got to be one of Cesar’s bodyguards at times. His stated reason for opposing illegal immigration, which issue I worked on a bit, was because illegals were used as strike breakers. There was also one tragic issue when a legal worker was killed for resisting a false arrest by the immigration authorities, which at that time seemed pretty hostile to the union.
With millions surging illegally accross the border to take low wage jobs it makes zero sense to force increased wages while leaving the border open. That's going to encourage more illegal immigration not less.

Coercing employers into acting as immigration agents while there is no effective control over the border, sanctuary jurisdictions encourage breaking Federal law, and identity theft by illegals isn't prosecuted is only going to discourage hiring accross the board.

How would employers determine the immigration status of applicants? EVerify has an unlimited time to make a determination of employment status during which time the employer is barred from any adverse action towards the employee.
Some of the suggestions are for some national secure ID, but that is often opposed by both parties, even those conservatives who are concerned about illegals. I did simple checks for green cards when I was with the union, tho the skill of some forgers should not be underestimated. But I do believe higher wages would attract more citizens and legals. Then again, slave immigrants from Africa, then convicts bound for Georgia, then Europeans, then Chinese, Filipinos, and Japanese have been let in to do low wage work. In California in the 1930s we “imported” workers from Oklahoma and Arkansas. And as I have noted elsewhere, we still import Jamaicans as temps to work on cane.
 
Ya think the Border Patrol is goofing off? Or is the problem bigger than the Border Patrol can handle.
Nope. They are too busy processing and babysitting the illegals that the democrat party is holding out the welcome sign for.
I bet the Border Patrol is doing all they can but they can't watch that many miles of border 24-7. People are going to get in. And walls are not going to stop them. They will figure out ways to get past a wall. They will destroy walls, tunnel under them, or use devices to go over them.
Complete and utter bullshit. If the cognitively declined turd now in the oval office had not stopped the construction of the wall and enforced the stay in Mexico policy the wall would have been completed and the border patrol would have been able to monitor the entire border. The wall comes with censors that give the border patrol time to head off any breach, over through or under.
Other countries do not have the same problem because each country is unique. We created a huge mess in Central America with our drug war, and this is the result. We need to deal with the source of the problem.
If we just enforce our own borders, the problem of Central American drug traffic over our borders largely goes away. And the only thing that is unique is that the democrat party in this nation puts out the welcome sign. They see incoming illegals as potential future democrat voters. That's how they turned California blue.

We need creative solutions.
How about this for creative? Enforce our damn immigration laws. Trump had it under control with much of the wall and the stay in Mexico policy while asylum claims are considered.
Maybe we should offer to just make everything between Canada and South America all part of the USA. Expand our nation. Add States. And while we are at it, include Puerto Rico and DC as new States. That would make America much stronger and make America greater. Sure, we would have more cultures and languages to mix, but it might be worth while. There could be a lot of benefit to the idea.
Yawn.......
 
Nope. They are too busy processing and babysitting the illegals that the democrat party is holding out the welcome sign for.

Complete and utter bullshit. If the cognitively declined turd now in the oval office had not stopped the construction of the wall and enforced the stay in Mexico policy the wall would have been completed and the border patrol would have been able to monitor the entire border. The wall comes with censors that give the border patrol time to head off any breach, over through or under.

If we just enforce our own borders, the problem of Central American drug traffic over our borders largely goes away. And the only thing that is unique is that the democrat party in this nation puts out the welcome sign. They see incoming illegals as potential future democrat voters. That's how they turned California blue.


How about this for creative? Enforce our damn immigration laws. Trump had it under control with much of the wall and the stay in Mexico policy while asylum claims are considered.

Yawn.......
Trump broke immigration law and precedent. Biden appears to be attempting to honor the Refugee Act and the relevant rarified treaties, while enforcing immigration laws that are somewhat in tension with those. But such complexity is lost on some who bought into Trump's Make America Hate Again campaigns. "Illegals that the democrat(ic) party is holding out the welcome sign for" is a good example of that simplistic interpretation of a complex problem.
 
Trump broke immigration law and precedent.
100% baloney. And Joe Biden lacks the cognitive ability to understand the Refugee Act much less honor it. Evidently you do not understand it either. The individuals illegally sneaking across out borders are not refugees, They are illegal aliens.
 
100% baloney. And Joe Biden lacks the cognitive ability to understand the Refugee Act much less honor it. Evidently you do not understand it either. The individuals illegally sneaking across out borders are not refugees, They are illegal aliens.
I trust you have examined all the asylum claims of those at the border to have made your sweeping finding outlined in your last two sentences above. For my part, I worked professionally and opined on these issues, individual claims, detention conditions, and policies for 20 years under Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton, a bit of Bush 2, plus volunteering a bit under Trump. I addressed asylum officers, and submitted testimony to Congress. To roughly quote the Refugee Act, anyone within the United States, or at a land border or port of entry can apply for asylum, irrespective of their immigration status. See section 208 (a) at the link below. Reagan's administration was terribly biased on asylum cases, but not even he proposed what Trump did.

Trump proposed simply sending people back without a process at all, a violation of the law. He proposed returning people who had fled non-government entities connected to the government or which the government could or would not control, like the Mujahedeen in Iran. This would have violated decades of precedent, dating back to the early 1980s, honored under all the president's named above, plus Obama.

 
I trust you have examined all the asylum claims of those at the border to have made your sweeping finding outlined in your last two sentences above. For my part, I worked professionally and opined on these issues, individual claims, detention conditions, and policies for 20 years under Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton, a bit of Bush 2, plus volunteering a bit under Trump. I addressed asylum officers, and submitted testimony to Congress. To roughly quote the Refugee Act, anyone within the United States, or at a land border or port of entry can apply for asylum, irrespective of their immigration status. See section 208 (a) at the link below. Reagan's administration was terribly biased on asylum cases, but not even he proposed what Trump did.

Trump proposed simply sending people back without a process at all, a violation of the law. He proposed returning people who had fled non-government entities connected to the government or which the government could or would not control, like the Mujahedeen in Iran. This would have violated decades of precedent, dating back to the early 1980s, honored under all the president's named above, plus Obama.

If you truly are all that involved, then you must know that 80% or more asylum cases are disapproved. And you must also understand that the statute is largely for those who apply for asylum at a point of entry. It's not intended for those who illegally sneak over the border. You must also be aware that the illegal aliens sneaking across the border are not seeking asylum. That is merely what the coyotes and indirectly the democrat party are telling them to do. The goal when they claim asylum is simply to get released into the country and given a court date for the asylum claim that they never intend to actually show up for. Ultimately the democrats push for comprehensive immigration bills to give them amnesty in exchange for control of the southern border. President Reagan fell for that and later listed it as one of his top regrets.
 
If you truly are all that involved, then you must know that 80% or more asylum cases are disapproved. And you must also understand that the statute is largely for those who apply for asylum at a point of entry. It's not intended for those who illegally sneak over the border. You must also be aware that the illegal aliens sneaking across the border are not seeking asylum. That is merely what the coyotes and indirectly the democrat party are telling them to do. The goal when they claim asylum is simply to get released into the country and given a court date for the asylum claim that they never intend to actually show up for. Ultimately the democrats push for comprehensive immigration bills to give them amnesty in exchange for control of the southern border. President Reagan fell for that and later listed it as one of his top regrets.
Of course I know that the majority of asylum cases are denied. What of it? I assume the majority of police brutality complaints arent valid. I investigated discrimination complaints for years. Lots of those were bogus. That’s why we have people investigating in those situations. And as I stated, the Refugee Act and similar legislation in other countries wisely recognized the irregular nature of refugee flight, how people may be lied to and exploited by smugglers, traffickers, etc. In San Francisco, notary public’s posing as legal professionals created a huge number of absurdly worded asylum claims for some real refugees, until the immigration service itself dealt with it. That’s why the “irrespective of status” language is in the Refugee Act. It is thus factually incorrect to state that the Act was designed for people who would present themselves at the border.
 
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Of course I know that the majority of asylum cases are denied. What of it? I assume the majority of police brutality complaints arent valid. I investigated discrimination complaints for years. Lots of those were bogus. That’s why we have people investigating in those situations. And as I stated, the Refugee Act and similar legislation in other countries wisely recognized the irregular nature of refugee flight, how people may be lied to and exploited by smugglers, traffickers, etc. In San Francisco, notary public’s posing as legal professionals created a huge number of absurdly worded asylum claims for some real refugees, until the immigration service itself dealt with it. That’s why the “irrespective of status” language is in the Refugee Act. It is thus factually incorrect to state that the Act was designed for people who would present themselves at the border.
what you are still refusing to accept is that the illegal immigrants are not refugees They are not legal immigrants or residents. The Refugee Act does not apply to them.
 
what you are still refusing to accept is that the illegal immigrants are not refugees They are not legal immigrants or residents. The Refugee Act does not apply to them.
It seems you are refusing to accept that one can be a refugee and an illegal immigrant at the same time. Someone runs away from oppression, then they cross the border illegally. Bingo! They are both. I dealt with hundreds of cases of people who crossed illegally and were granted asylum. If they walked into the immigration office, they could apply for asylum before an immigration official, an asylum officer after that group came to be. If they were captured by immigration, they could claim asylum as a defense against deportation.
 
Nope. They are too busy processing and babysitting the illegals that the democrat party is holding out the welcome sign for.
Can you show us a picture of a Democrat welcome sign at the border, please? Or is this merely more right wing imagination.

Complete and utter bullshit. If the cognitively declined turd now in the oval office had not stopped the construction of the wall and enforced the stay in Mexico policy the wall would have been completed and the border patrol would have been able to monitor the entire border. The wall comes with censors that give the border patrol time to head off any breach, over through or under.
There was never a plan to have a complete wall. Even under Trump when he had a Republican majority they wouldn't vote for it. Heck, they spent their first year failing to repeal Obamacare. That's because there is no way to fix health care without taking away big profits from powerful corporations, something Republicans could never do.

If we just enforce our own borders, the problem of Central American drug traffic over our borders largely goes away. And the only thing that is unique is that the democrat party in this nation puts out the welcome sign. They see incoming illegals as potential future democrat voters. That's how they turned California blue.
There is no 'just' about enforcing the borders. It is an immense job. We spend billions doing everything we can and the job is bigger than that.

And there is no 'welcome to illegal immigrants' sign erected by Democrats. That's just made-up nonsense.

How about this for creative? Enforce our damn immigration laws. Trump had it under control with much of the wall and the stay in Mexico policy while asylum claims are considered.

Trump did not have it under control. It was out of control and he tool a lot of heat for separating families. Even that didn't stop the flow. Really, if you want to stop the flow, go to the source. Drug gangs in Central America make life unlivable there, and climate change has forced subsistence farmers to leave because they can't feed themselves if they miss one year of growing to a storm, rainfall or other changes.

Trump did not have anything under control. He goes from one personal crisis to another. He had to pay $25 million to the people he ripped off at "Trump University," so to displace that from the headlines he created a whole stink about the way the Hamilton players pleaded with Pence to keep Trump under control.

Good thing Pence did the right thing on January 6th 2021, because Trump lost and we need to have faith that our elections are valid.

Yawn.......
 
Can you show us a picture of a Democrat welcome sign at the border, please? Or is this merely more right wing imagination.
Get a grip. It means that by their actions, they are pretty much inviting them.
There was never a plan to have a complete wall.
Ever viewed the entire border? Ever heard of the Rio Grande? No wall needed there. The plan was for roughly 700 miles of border wall. Roughly 450 miles were completed before Dopey Joe stopped construction.
Even under Trump when he had a Republican majority they wouldn't vote for it.
I would like to assume that you are smart enough to work out that getting things passed in congress is not as simple as having a majority.
Heck, they spent their first year failing to repeal Obamacare.
However they did successfully repeal the individual mandate. Now nobody has to fear a 2% tax on their annual income if they refuse to buy overpriced health insurance.
That's because there is no way to fix health care without taking away big profits from powerful corporations, something Republicans could never do.
Obamacare is enriching the profits of those power corporations.
There is no 'just' about enforcing the borders. It is an immense job. We spend billions doing everything we can and the job is bigger than that.
Baloney.
And there is no 'welcome to illegal immigrants' sign erected by Democrats. That's just made-up nonsense.

Trump did not have it under control. It was out of control and he tool a lot of heat for separating families. Even that didn't stop the flow. Really, if you want to stop the flow, go to the source. Drug gangs in Central America make life unlivable there, and climate change has forced subsistence farmers to leave because they can't feed themselves if they miss one year of growing to a storm, rainfall or other changes.
Baloney.
Trump did not have anything under control. He goes from one personal crisis to another. He had to pay $25 million to the people he ripped off at "Trump University," so to displace that from the headlines he created a whole stink about the way the Hamilton players pleaded with Pence to keep Trump under control.
Too much TDS is that rant to take you seriously.
Good thing Pence did the right thing on January 6th 2021, because Trump lost and we need to have faith that our elections are valid.
See above.
 
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