How Do We Fix Immigration?

[Patriotic Voter]

Decades and decades of immigration, both legal and illegal have brought us to this point in time. Immigration has built our nation, but some people think immigration is destroying our nation. Congress has failed to act during both Republican and Democratic majorities.

What needs to be done?

1. Improve the no-fly list. We are keeping good people out because the system for adding names is not perfect. I liked George Bush's idea, but the wrong names are on it every day.
2. End racism. Stop blocking immigration from Mexico because of their reputation as criminals that only racist Republicans believe while totally ignoring white Canadian immigrants.

 

[Lucky 1]

So, a bumper sticker. ok.

Funny!

 

[Peacenik]

I appreciate your willing to review cited material.


I can't find where you got that figure from.

I don't think you saw what the links referred to as "welfare."

From the link you cited:

https://static.nationalpriorities.org/images/charts/2021-charts/total-desk.png

Social Security, Unemployment, and Labor are welfare programs. 40% of the 2021 Budget.

So is Medicare, and Medicaid. 23% of the 2021 Budget

The Agriculture Budget includes money for SNAP
https://usdasearch.usda.gov/search?utf8=✓&affiliate=usda&query=SNAP&commit=Search

The Housing and Human Development Budget includes money for TANF

What is TANF?

www.hhs.gov

As I listed above, Welfare Programs fall under several Departments and Agencies. As shown in the 2021 budget below, it amounts to about 70% of the 2021 Budget.

https://static.nationalpriorities.org/images/charts/2021-charts/total-desk.png

That is not the issue. The issue was about immigration and how it would affect existing citizens in both their pocketbooks and job opportunities. Not a Straw Man "how it helps society."

The argument that immigration places additional demand on our welfare programs is misleading because our welfare programs contribute to our economy, pump money into the economy, raise the GDP, create demand for products and services, and create jobs. Government assistance programs dovetail directly into capitalism and help build businesses, jobs, incomes, security, and a stronger America.

And that only makes sense because that is exactly what immigration does, and always has done.

America before immigration was not even a nation. Just a collection of indigenous tribes.

The influx of Europeans, combined with the existing natives, built our country. For descendants of those Europeans to somehow claim today that they have any more right to this land than any other human is actually kind of absurd. And it doesn't even make sense. Right through might is about it.

Consider the big picture, in the macroscopic view, over a great period of time:

China has about the same land area as the USA, with 4 times as many humans. Their economy trails ours, but just barely, and quickly catching up. China became industrialized and high tech. They are surpassing us. Ultimately, the only way we will be able to compete is to expand our population in a productive way. We have people yearning to come here and build American back better, but Republicans can't see the potential, and are too hung up on being stingy.

The real reason Republicans oppose immigration is because immigrants lean more Democratic. Boom. Really, that's it, right there in a nutshell. All the other objections are small potatoes, manufactured reasons, because Republicans don't want to admit the real reason being that they would lose power.

America needs to shove these ugly Republican xenophobic views out of the way and charge ahead to build our fantastic amazing future. A nation truly of the people, by the people, and for the people. Not the Republican vision which amounts to a nation of the rich, by the rich, and for the rich.

Republicans, you are standing in the way of progress. Progressives, I salute you. Destiny is ours. Republicans are doing everything they can to impede our rightful future, but ultimately we the people will prevail.

 

[Peacenik]

I don't even think it is that big of a problem. There is no reasonable way to secure 1000+ miles of border, and to secure all ports, and to monitor every person here on a visa. Anything will have people slipping through the cracks. We have a worker shortage and an aging population, we will need workers so immigration will be important.

republicans don't even see it as a problem, they just use it as a fear mongering, whip up thier base. When they have power, they do nothing regarding immigration.

Bingo. They do nothing about it. It's just like the debt. It's something they complain about when Dems are in power, but when they get power they do nothing about it. That's how you know it's a dog whistle issue.

Do they really want to pay for an ineffective wall that gets tunneled under, defeated and flown over? Do they really want to pay for a huge bureaucracy to monitor everybody in the country, checking their status? Who are the going to raise taxes on to pay for all of that? Themselves? Give us a freaking break. They wouldn't pay a tax if it was to keep illegal immigrants out if they could get out of it.

And it's totally a bad idea anyway. We can build America back better with more workers to do the work and contribute to the economy. And we can better compete with China's economy with more hard working Americans. Not to mention paying into the Social Security system. It's all good but Republicans can see past their hatred and xenophobia.

 

[Peacenik]

We have enough of our own citizens out of work...why should we import non-citizens who often don't share our values or even want to be an American...they just want our money.

Simple. New rule. Work and be productive or get deported.

 

[Peacenik]

First there is nothing wrong with legal immigration. We are a nation of immigrants. Illegal immigration is the problem. And the solution is easy. Just enforce our damn immigration laws. And anyone pushing the idea that there is little or no moral or legal difference between legal and illegal immigration is an idiot.

Why didn't Trump do all of that when he had the chance?

What we really need to do is expand legal immigration quotas. That makes millions of illegal immigrants instantly legal. Let 'em come, Let 'em work.' Let 'em become proud hard working productive Americans. It's all good. They will create as many jobs as they take.

 

[Roadvirus]

How do we fix immigration?
Enforce the laws that are on the books!

 

[Sweden]

Why has assimilating immigrants been so difficult for Sweden?

Because a very large proportion of immigrants have no desire to assimilate.

 

[Mustachio]

If you can find two people in this country from different political parties that can agree on an immigration plan I will support it. Meanwhile, the border crisis is great PR for the GOP so what's their incentive to do anything while Biden is in office?

There was a bipartisan immigration reform bill during the w bush era. Gop killed it.

 

[Roadvirus]

There was a bipartisan immigration reform bill during the w bush era. Gop killed it.

That's because it contained Amnesty (rewarding criminal behavior).

 

[cpwill]

For our Progressive friends: Respectfully, you can have effectively open borders and mass immigration if you wish.

And you can have a strong welfare state, if you wish.

But, you cannot have both.

 

[Court Jester]

Illegal immigration can be fixed by arresting illegals, deporting them, and if they return putting them in prison.... maybe hard labor work camps.

An appropriate disincentive to law breakers is having a firm hand and strong political will to punish offenders harshly.

 

[Noodlegawd]

Decades and decades of immigration, both legal and illegal have brought us to this point in time. Immigration has built our nation, but some people think immigration is destroying our nation. Congress has failed to act during both Republican and Democratic majorities.

What needs to be done?

What should Congress do?

Let's hear all the ideas.

Maybe we can brainstorm a solution.

Here are some ideas, all over the map:

We could start by recognizing and agreeing that we can't let in everyone who wants to come here, and acknowledging that whatever the appropriate number is, we need a mechanism to enforce it.

 

[Jason Warfield]

Not a panacea, but would help:

Increase budgets for those agencies involved with this issue that would provide proper recruitment, training, equipment pay and benefits.
Increase budgets for immigration budgets to hire more judges and supporting staff to help process asylum claims far more quickly so that they aren't just released into the US to await a trail in the next 24 months.

The sad thing is that this was offered up in two different bills in Congress, but Trump and allies made sure the bills were killed since no border wall spending was included....

 

[Jason Warfield]

Illegal immigration can be fixed by arresting illegals, deporting them, and if they return putting them in prison.... maybe hard labor work camps.

An appropriate disincentive to law breakers is having a firm hand and strong political will to punish offenders harshly.

So, these items were in two bills that were nixed by the GOP at Trump's behest because there was no border wall spending in those two bills and both bills were mostly sponsored by Democrats.

You all actually could have gotten some of what you wanted a few years ago...but in your quest to "own the libs" you all blew it.

 

[Mustachio]

That's because it contained Amnesty (rewarding criminal behavior).

You have your opinion and Americans disagree with you, about 70%. This is exactly what Americans want:

The “Border Security, Economic Opportunity, and Immigration Modernization Act,” or S. 744, is a broad-based proposal for reforming the U.S. immigration system written by a bipartisan group of eight Senators known as the “Gang of Eight.” Senators Charles Schumer (D-NY), John McCain (R-AZ), Richard Durbin (D-IL), Lindsey Graham (R-SC), Robert Menendez (D-NJ), Marco Rubio (R-FL), Michael Bennet (D-CO), and Jeff Flake (R-AZ) drafted S. 744 in the spring of 2013. The bill addresses all aspects of the immigration process from border and enforcement issues to legal immigration reforms. It makes changes to the family and employment-based visa categories for immigrants, provides critical due-process protections, increases the availability of nonimmigrant workers to supplement all sectors of the workforce, and provides legal status to 11 million undocumented immigrants within the United States. The Senators intended this legislation to address these issues “…by finally committing the resources needed to secure the border, modernize and streamline our current legal immigration system, while creating a tough but fair legalization program for individuals who are currently here.”

I think your opinion matters just as much as the other 320 million people. The GOP said:

The House of Representatives did not act on this bill.[22][23] Conservative Republicans in the U.S. House of Representatives were opposed to it. House Republicans and Speaker John Boehner said that this bill would not receive a floor vote, a tactic which was called anti-democratic by some. Boehner stated that the House Republicans favored a piece-meal approach on immigration reform (i.e. several different bills instead of one comprehensive reform bill). Instead of putting the existing Senate bill up for vote and making necessary modifications, he asserted that the House GOP would draft another bill of its own without any path to citizenship and without some other changes (such as introducing a visa for entrepreneurs and delimiting the use of H1B visas to prevent their abuse) that the Senate bill offered

Or to paraphrase - the bill is everything Americans want and we will go ahead and try to pass a bill that contains everything Americans are opposed to.

 

[Mustachio]

How do we fix immigration?
Enforce the laws that are on the books!

Most immigrants become illegal. The brainwashing by GOP leaders is very effective, you're distracted and aren't even looking at the actual problem. Giant government GOP takeovers in Texas, Oklahoma, Idaho, Florida, and Georgia might be talked but the party that used to actually care about government size, spending, and intrusion decided to hell with it all. This country deserves better and i'm so sick of people like you whining.

 

[weaver2]

Decades and decades of immigration, both legal and illegal have brought us to this point in time. Immigration has built our nation, but some people think immigration is destroying our nation. Congress has failed to act during both Republican and Democratic majorities.

What needs to be done?

What should Congress do?

Let's hear all the ideas.

Maybe we can brainstorm a solution.

Here are some ideas, all over the map:

Most illegal immigrants are either overstaying their student visas or coming across the Mexican border as refugees seeking asylum. There are not enough judges or court workers to handle the load. Immigrants are allowed to come in, live where they choose and wait for a court date, which never comes and they become illegal. Employers like it this way. The labor is cheaper, easy to intimidate, easy to cheat. They support a system that produces illegal immigrants. If you want it to change you have to override the political power of those that hire illegals, hire enough court workers and judges to take care of the asylum cases in a timely manner.

 

[ttwtt78640]

I'd like to comment on one aspect covered here, the impact on our economy:



It is a myth that immigration hurts the job market. Not all immigrants are low-skilled. Some of them start businesses, create jobs. For the workers, they are not a burden on our economic system. They are a part of it. When they spend money, that adds into our GDP, creates demand, and in turn, creates jobs. Immigrants also pay into our tax system, often without collecting refunds. That acts to reduce our federal deficit.

OK, then why pretend to have any distinction between illegal (uncontrolled) and legal (controlled) immigration? That seems to be the basis for ‘comprehensive’ immigration reform - simply convert illegal immigrants to legal immigrants after X amount of time has expired. Nobody seems to be able to explain why making X five years is any better than making X five days or five minutes.

 

[Doug64]

First there is nothing wrong with legal immigration.

You repeat yourself—since an immigrant is someone that has been granted permanent residency status, by definition all immigration is legal. It’s migration that is often (possibly mostly) illegal.

The argument that immigration places additional demand on our welfare programs is misleading because our welfare programs contribute to our economy ...

That is false. The only activities that contribute to an economy are those that aid in increasing our available pool of resources. all other activities simply redistribute the resulting resources throughout society.

The sad thing is that this was offered up in two different bills in Congress, but Trump and allies made sure the bills were killed since no border wall spending was included....

That’s what happens when a party without a super-majority tries to ram through legislation without taking the concerns of the minority party into consideration.

As for the question in this thread’s title, here’s the options that each have majority support:

• Mandate E-Verify. (67%)
• Give lifetime work permits to most of the illegal migrants that came here as minors. (51%)
• Cap immigration at 1 million new immigrants a year, at most. (54%, 36% would prefer the cap at 500,000.)
• Eliminate chain migration (additional immigrants limited to spouses and minor children). (61%)

Not included on the list because of the poll’s wording is taking strong measures for border enforcement, but 59% consider that more important than figuring out why the illegal migrants are flooding into the country. (34% think the revers is more important.) And 52% think the Biden administration*’s border policy is worse than Trump’s, versus 28% that think it’s better and 15% that think it’s about the same.

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

You repeat yourself—since an immigrant is someone that has been granted permanent residency status, by definition all immigration is legal. It’s migration that is often (possibly mostly) illegal.

When you start out with a falsehood, I don't bother to read any further. Sneaking across a nation's border is not legal immigration. Not mostly or otherwise.

 

[Doug64]

When you start out with a falsehood, I don't bother to read any further. Sneaking across a nation's border is not legal immigration. Not mostly or otherwise.

You didn't read my post closely, I said that "immigration" is by definition legal, because an immigrant is someone that has been given the legal right to permanently reside in a country. But the term "migrant" encompasses everyone that has moved into another country, whether legally or illegally. Where the "often (possibly mostly) illegal" comes in is what percentage of migrants are immigrants or nonimmigrants (legal temporary residents, such as tourists, students, or people here on work visas, and their families) and what percentage are in the country illegally. I don't know what percentage of noncitizen US residents are here legally, and what percentage are here illegally.

 

[Peacenik]

Most illegal immigrants are either overstaying their student visas or coming across the Mexican border as refugees seeking asylum. There are not enough judges or court workers to handle the load. Immigrants are allowed to come in, live where they choose and wait for a court date, which never comes and they become illegal. Employers like it this way. The labor is cheaper, easy to intimidate, easy to cheat. They support a system that produces illegal immigrants. If you want it to change you have to override the political power of those that hire illegals, hire enough court workers and judges to take care of the asylum cases in a timely manner.

Increase the legal quota of immigration. That way we get more productive people working to make America greater, paying into the system. And the need to spend more on more tax money on courts, lawyers and judges is reduced. If we just hired more lawyers that is where our tax money will be going. I don't get that Republicans want to pay higher taxes just to keep out people who want to be good hard working Americans.

 

[jaypatriot]

The real reason Republicans oppose immigration is not economic as they would have you believe. Immigrants generally come here because they just want to find work. They are usually willing to work hard and make do on low wages however they can. And they do a better job of staying out of trouble than Americans do.

So the economic reason is bogus. What is the real reason?

-They would more likely vote Democratic.

Bingo.

Republicans see themselves losing power.

You're not wrong.
However, both parties are desperate to retain as much power as they can.
This November, the Dem Party may lose 'bigly'.
The more illegal aliens allowed into the country this year can lead to the creation of additional Congressional Districts in certain states. That means more Dem votes and more Dem Congresspeople. Not to mention more tax revenues from those aliens working under false Social Security IDs and paying into state tax coffers and the Social Security 'fund'.
Why would the Dems care about more illegal aliens? It's the border towns that are going to be strapped to handle their population influx. I like the idea of Greg Abbott, the TX Gov, busing illegals to D.C. Someone has to keep calling attention to Biden's ineptitude.
For the GOP, the immigration situation can only redound to the GOP benefit. Voters will resonate with the threat of more illegals resulting in more crime, drugs, and the rising costs of social services.
Dems know they are going to lose this November. Future voters are worth because the Dems are incapable of doing anything about controlling illegal immigration.

 

[Peacenik]

OK, then why pretend to have any distinction between illegal (uncontrolled) and legal (controlled) immigration? That seems to be the basis for ‘comprehensive’ immigration reform - simply convert illegal immigrants to legal immigrants after X amount of time has expired. Nobody seems to be able to explain why making X five years is any better than making X five days or five minutes.

Fine. Screen 'em and let 'em in without delay. Make the rule find work or get deported. Get a job or create a business or we send you back. Build a whole new America exactly the same way the original was built. Bigger economy, bigger population, bigger military, stronger nation. It's gonna take a lot more workers to compete with China's economy anyway. More diversity, more opportunity.

I don't see a problem.