How Do We Fix Immigration?

[Peacenik]

The real reason Republicans oppose immigration is not economic as they would have you believe. Immigrants generally come here because they just want to find work. They are usually willing to work hard and make do on low wages however they can. And they do a better job of staying out of trouble than Americans do.

So the economic reason is bogus. What is the real reason?

-They would more likely vote Democratic.

Bingo.

Republicans see themselves losing power.

 

[Peacenik]

I'd like to comment on one aspect covered here, the impact on our economy:

Flooding the country with mostly unskilled or low skilled immigrants only makes it harder for our own LOCAL citizens to compete for those jobs.

That is only ONE of the many issues that unbridled and/or increased immigration presents.

There are all the additional cost issues of a welfare state that will append.

It is a myth that immigration hurts the job market. Not all immigrants are low-skilled. Some of them start businesses, create jobs. For the workers, they are not a burden on our economic system. They are a part of it. When they spend money, that adds into our GDP, creates demand, and in turn, creates jobs. Immigrants also pay into our tax system, often without collecting refunds. That acts to reduce our federal deficit.

 

[Peacenik]

Except is it NOT "an impossible situation."

We can do what prior Administrations attempted without completion (not just the last Administration, nor only those led by Republican Presidents). That is seek to build barriers along the southern border, which include both active and passive monitoring.

However, we'd also need to set up ready reaction forces to apprehend/counter border crossings. Meanwhile beef up the Immigration processing system to weed out the legal from the illegal, and the true "refugees" from the criminal trespassers.

That would include increasing Immigration Court processing personnel to speed up the process. Finally set up an expulsion relocation program to ship illegal entrants right back to their country of origin, rather than simply pushing them back across and letting them repeat illegal entry.

Sounds like it's going to cost a lot of money to do that. Are Republicans ready to pay higher taxes to pay for it? Investigation, prosecution, lawyers, judges, incarceration, forced deportation all cost money.

It would seem better to let 'em in, let 'em work, let 'em pay into our government and our economy. That would help pay for our Social Security system and ease tensions of all but he hateful. And they are never happy anyway.

 

[Captain Adverse]

I'd like to comment on one aspect covered here, the impact on our economy:



It is a myth that immigration hurts the job market. Not all immigrants are low-skilled. Some of them start businesses, create jobs. For the workers, they are not a burden on our economic system. They are a part of it. When they spend money, that adds into our GDP, creates demand, and in turn, creates jobs. Immigrants also pay into our tax system, often without collecting refunds. That acts to reduce our federal deficit.

It is not a "myth.

We have a large "welfare state" system, and here are some resources to review the "facts."

One thing of special interest in the below citation:

63% of non-citizen households in the USA used one or more welfare programs in 2014.

Another is this:

How many people are on welfare in the United States?
About 68 million Americans received some type of government assistance through the major welfare programs in 2018. Meaning, about 21.3% of American people are using one or more programs like SSI, TANF, and SNAP. This costs the USA about $212 billion every year.

24+ Welfare Statistics - 2023 Update | Balancing Everything

The latest welfare statistics revealing data on expenditures and sources; TANF and SNAP recipients and their demographics, figures by state, and more!

balancingeverything.com

Even leaving out "retirees" on Social Security (many still working if possible, to supplement that income). If there is such a wonderful job market, why are so many people on welfare?

Another source:

Every second immigrant household in the US is enrolled in a welfare program.
(Center for Immigration Studies)

Immigrant households are slightly more dependent on welfare with 51% receiving benefits from one of the programs. In contrast, only 30% of the households of native citizens are welfare recipients.

20+ Important Welfare Statistics for 2023 | Fortunly

Poverty is a growing issue in the US, and our welfare statistics are meant to shine some light upon the financial hardships that people face.

fortunly.com

We already have a major issue with welfare use and costs in this nation. Partly IMHO because we have lost all those wonderful, highly paid (and frequently unionized) production jobs I mentioned shipped overseas.

 

[Bok Tuklo]

No advice from me. I write from a country, Sweden, and a continent, Europe, which is in the process of being destroyed by now irreversible Muslim immigration. At least the US has, for the time being, little to fear from Islam.

Why has assimilating immigrants been so difficult for Sweden?

 

[Antiwar]

We need to un-fix 'immigration.' People should be free to travel and live where they want or need to. The more privileged people may not always be so.

 

[Peacenik]

It is not a "myth.

We have a large "welfare state" system, and here are some resources to review the "facts."

One thing of special interest in the below citation:



Another is this:

24+ Welfare Statistics - 2023 Update | Balancing Everything

The latest welfare statistics revealing data on expenditures and sources; TANF and SNAP recipients and their demographics, figures by state, and more!

balancingeverything.com

Even leaving out "retirees" on Social Security (many still working if possible, to supplement that income). If there is such a wonderful job market, why are so many people on welfare?

Another source:

20+ Important Welfare Statistics for 2023 | Fortunly

Poverty is a growing issue in the US, and our welfare statistics are meant to shine some light upon the financial hardships that people face.

fortunly.com

We already have a major issue with welfare use and costs in this nation. Partly IMHO because we have lost all those wonderful, highly paid (and frequently unionized) production jobs I mentioned shipped overseas.

Thanks for the supported post.

Here's a tidbit from one of your links:

Recent data shows that the government allocated 5.6% of the budget for welfare. (National Priorities Project)

Contrary to popular belief, the US budget isn’t being sucked dry by welfare expenses.

Your link contradicts the assumption that we "have a major issue with welfare."

Also noted: Your position is all about the cost, and not a word about the benefits to our society, such as the fact that virtually every penny allocated for assistance is pumped directly into the economy, creating demand and jobs.

 

[Captain Adverse]

Thanks for the supported post.

I appreciate your willing to review cited material.

Here's a tidbit from one of your links:

I can't find where you got that figure from.

I don't think you saw what the links referred to as "welfare."

From the link you cited:

https://static.nationalpriorities.org/images/charts/2021-charts/total-desk.png

Social Security, Unemployment, and Labor are welfare programs. 40% of the 2021 Budget.

So is Medicare, and Medicaid. 23% of the 2021 Budget

The Agriculture Budget includes money for SNAP
https://usdasearch.usda.gov/search?utf8=✓&affiliate=usda&query=SNAP&commit=Search

The Housing and Human Development Budget includes money for TANF

What is TANF?

www.hhs.gov

Your link contradicts the assumption that we "have a major issue with welfare."

As I listed above, Welfare Programs fall under several Departments and Agencies. As shown in the 2021 budget below, it amounts to about 70% of the 2021 Budget.

https://static.nationalpriorities.org/images/charts/2021-charts/total-desk.png

Also noted: Your position is all about the cost, and not a word about the benefits to our society, such as the fact that virtually every penny allocated for assistance is pumped directly into the economy, creating demand and jobs.

That is not the issue. The issue was about immigration and how it would affect existing citizens in both their pocketbooks and job opportunities. Not a Straw Man "how it helps society."

 

[Gatsby]

Immigration is the most important valve we have over the long-term health of our economy. We need to be letting far more skilled immigrants in. As of now, most immigrants come in on family visas. Work visas (especially skilled workers) are a relatively small pool in comparison.

Here is what I would do:

1. Massively expand the total number of green cards issued. In a good year, it's only about 1 million, or less than 0.3% of our population. That isn't nearly enough. We should be growing via immigration at at least 1% per year, or roughly 3.3 million green cards per year.

2. Most of those new visas should be for skilled and educated workers. If you have a Bachelors degree in STEM or a Masters degree in anything, if you speak English, and if you're under 50, you should more-or-less automatically be granted a green card (with the standard caveats about background checks).

3. Create a Heartland Visa program where we grant skilled workers a green card if they commit to living in a specific region/state until they become a citizen. The idea is that we could revitalize depressed parts of the country with an influx of smart young workers.

4. Eliminate the 7% per-country cap. Right now there is a dumb law that only 7% of visas per year can go to citizens of any individual country. This means that we lose out on lots of qualified applicants from China, India, Mexico, and the Philippines.

5. Streamline the process. Right now we have a backlog in H1-B processing and a separate backlog in extended family visas. Some of these backlogs are ridiculously long...USCIS is still processing family visas from India for people who applied in 1998. That's a dumb system for lots of reasons, but one reason is that it results in our immigrants being older and less able to work when they eventually do get here. We shouldn't have people waiting more than a year...just tell them yes or no. Even if the answer is no, that's better than waiting for years or decades.

6. Regarding illegal immigration, we could implement eVerify nationwide to reduce the incentive to illegally immigrate.

7. We should stop taking new applicants for extended family visas, clear the existing backlog, then close the program. One objection that anti-immigrant folks have is "chain migration", and they aren't completely wrong about that. Each immigrant will, on average, sponsor 5 more family members. Instead of giving adults a green card because their adult sister is a US citizen, we should instead give out more green cards based on merit. And maybe we could still give people a few bonus points in that system if they have family ties.

 

[Captain Adverse]

Immigration is the most important valve we have over the long-term health of our economy. We need to be letting far more skilled immigrants in.

THIS I've always agreed with. Regardless of nation of origin.

As of now, most immigrants come in on family visas. Work visas (especially skilled workers) are a relatively small pool in comparison.

I'd like to agree, but I would like to see the data as well, just to provide support preventing snap-responses.

Here is what I would do:

1. Massively expand the total number of green cards issued. In a good year, it's only about 1 million, or less than 0.3% of our population. That isn't nearly enough. We should be growing via immigration at at least 1% per year, or roughly 3.3 million green cards per year.

Not sure I agree with this number.

We already have a significant number of unemployed and under-employed US Citizens. Per this citation (as of March 2022) is 5.952 million.

You'd want to bring in 3.3 million a year? Where are the jobs for those numbers? IMO they are overseas in all those growing factories US Corporations are financing.

2. Most of those new visas should be for skilled and educated workers. If you have a Bachelors degree in STEM or a Masters degree in anything, if you speak English, and if you're under 50, you should more-or-less automatically be granted a green card (with the standard caveats about background checks).

Agree 95% taking into consideration the point I made above.

3. Create a Heartland Visa program where we grant skilled workers a green card if they commit to living in a specific region/state until they become a citizen. The idea is that we could revitalize depressed parts of the country with an influx of smart young workers.

Interesting idea. But what is the real benefit to that "influx of smart workers" in depressed States? Why are the current residents unwilling or unable to work those jobs? Are there any jobs there in the first place? That is an important question for dealing with current citizen unemployment rates letting jobs go empty.

4. Eliminate the 7% per-country cap. Right now there is a dumb law that only 7% of visas per year can go to citizens of any individual country. This means that we lose out on lots of qualified applicants from China, India, Mexico, and the Philippines.

How does that negatively affect THOSE nations and benefit other nations? Explain.

5. Streamline the process. Right now we have a backlog in H1-B processing and a separate backlog in extended family visas. Some of these backlogs are ridiculously long...USCIS is still processing family visas from India for people who applied in 1998. That's a dumb system for lots of reasons, but one reason is that it results in our immigrants being older and less able to work when they eventually do get here. We shouldn't have people waiting more than a year...just tell them yes or no. Even if the answer is no, that's better than waiting for years or decades.

Okay. Then it should be even simpler. Blanket NO for all but immediate family. Once established and with a settled record of success/income, petition to bring other family over and let INS review.

6. Regarding illegal immigration, we could implement eVerify nationwide to reduce the incentive to illegally immigrate.

Okay.

7. We should stop taking new applicants for extended family visas, clear the existing backlog, then close the program. One objection that anti-immigrant folks have is "chain migration", and they aren't completely wrong about that. Each immigrant will, on average, sponsor 5 more family members. Instead of giving adults a green card because their adult sister is a US citizen, we should instead give out more green cards based on merit. And maybe we could still give people a few bonus points in that system if they have family ties.

Agreed.

 

[jaypatriot]

No advice from me. I write from a country, Sweden, and a continent, Europe, which is in the process of being destroyed by now irreversible Muslim immigration. At least the US has, for the time being, little to fear from Islam.

The vast majority of illegals coming into our country simply want to survive in a free country that their shithole country could never be.
But our current government has no will control the number of people who are coming in now and plan to sneak in as the weather gets warmer.
That's why Greg Abbott, the TX governor, is willing to spend money to ship migrants north to get them out of TX.
Sort of like manning the pumps in a flooded basement to keep from ruining the house.

 

[Lloyd Christmas]

Decades and decades of immigration, both legal and illegal have brought us to this point in time. Immigration has built our nation, but some people think immigration is destroying our nation. Congress has failed to act during both Republican and Democratic majorities.

What needs to be done?

What should Congress do?

Let's hear all the ideas.

Maybe we can brainstorm a solution.

Here are some ideas, all over the map:

I don't even think it is that big of a problem. There is no reasonable way to secure 1000+ miles of border, and to secure all ports, and to monitor every person here on a visa. Anything will have people slipping through the cracks. We have a worker shortage and an aging population, we will need workers so immigration will be important.

republicans don't even see it as a problem, they just use it as a fear mongering, whip up thier base. When they have power, they do nothing regarding immigration. Trumps wall was nothing more than a wasteful stunt to pander to racists and cowards that make up the republicans base. when is the last tiem republicans, when in power (which more often than dems, who typically barely get a majority and then of course some of their democrats are really republicans since they are from red states. republicans never pass anything other than tax breaks for the rich, never work with dems to solve anything, pretty must never vote with dems, and block even having a vote, like the 400 bills the house voted on that McConnel sat on. they wouldn't even have a hearing for a SCOTUS pick.

If you can find two people in this country from different political parties that can agree on an immigration plan I will support it. Meanwhile, the border crisis is great PR for the GOP so what's their incentive to do anything while Biden is in office?

nothing. When they have power, all they do is pass tax breaks for the rich, or start wars. Nothing else. ANd they have had plenty of opportunities to address this with all branches, plus they have alwasy had SCOTUS advantage. It's all political theater for them. like when dems in senate and presidency, they pass ridiculous bills in the house they know will never pass, so they can blame dems, Then when in power, silence, no attempt to pass any laws. They have had several decades of using immigration to whip up their base.

 

[Lloyd Christmas]

No advice from me. I write from a country, Sweden, and a continent, Europe, which is in the process of being destroyed by now irreversible Muslim immigration. At least the US has, for the time being, little to fear from Islam.

Hmm, maybe Sweden right wingers are similar to american right wingers after all, racist and love a good scapegoat.

Why has assimilating immigrants been so difficult for Sweden?

Europe is notoriously racists. They tend to shit on their immigrants and they never give them a chance. Also, why do they even have to assimilate? Why can't they just live their lives the way they want. Although the US is really racist, there are lots of immigrants and people can often find communities of like minded people. And US itself has tons of different cultures, even among american citizens, regional, etc.

 

[Lucky 1]

And the beginning of a new problem of having to pay for heavily expanded federal prisons full of business owners. Side problem - businesses going belly up because owners got locked up, Americans laid off. Taxes not paid, more people on the dole.


That would be better if it was a pathway to citizenship. If someone comes here to work, they put their labor into making America great.

We have enough of our own citizens out of work...why should we import non-citizens who often don't share our values or even want to be an American...they just want our money.

 

[StillBallin75]

Simple. Open up the borders.

"But you can't just let anyone in!"

Sure you can, that's literally how things were all throughout history up until the Chinese Exclusion Act and the beginning of the racist immigration regime we now know.

And before people start going off about MS-13, and trafficking, and cartels, the majority of "illegal" immigrants are visa overstays (not that it would matter if they were ALL Mexican and central American migrants).

We have open borders between states. The fact that we draw restrictive borders at the national level is a completely arbitrary conception.

Also, economists generally agree that open immigration is a net positive for the economy.

 

[StillBallin75]

We have enough of our own citizens out of work...

You literally have companies whining about Americans NOT WANTING to work and crying about being constantly understaffed.

why should we import non-citizens who often don't share our values

Americans don't even share American values. Such as claiming about loving "freedom" but having the government jail someone for crossing an imaginary line.

or even want to be an American...they just want our money.

Anyone who works and is willing to work is entitled to fair compensation for their labor.

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

Decades and decades of immigration, both legal and illegal have brought us to this point in time. Immigration has built our nation, but some people think immigration is destroying our nation. Congress has failed to act during both Republican and Democratic majorities.

What needs to be done?

What should Congress do?

Let's hear all the ideas.

Maybe we can brainstorm a solution.

Here are some ideas, all over the map:

First there is nothing wrong with legal immigration. We are a nation of immigrants. Illegal immigration is the problem. And the solution is easy. Just enforce our damn immigration laws. And anyone pushing the idea that there is little or no moral or legal difference between legal and illegal immigration is an idiot.

 

[Lloyd Christmas]

We have enough of our own citizens out of work...why should we import non-citizens who often don't share our values or even want to be an American...they just want our money.

What planet have you been on? it's widely talked about how people are having trouble hiring. Many people leaving the job market as we have an aging population. People are struggling to fill positions.

First there is nothing wrong with legal immigration. We are a nation of immigrants. Illegal immigration is the problem. And the solution is easy. Just enforce our damn immigration laws. And anyone pushing the idea that there is little or no moral or legal difference between legal and illegal immigration is an idiot.

This is always such a BS argument. Legal immigration is very expensive, and takes a very long time, and not everybody can even qualify. And many people who come here, are looking for work to make money to survive, they can't afford the 10s of thousands in attorney and other fees to come legally. If they are even eligible or selected to immigrate legally in the first place.

 

[eohrnberger]

How Do We Fix Immigration?

Start with ZERO immigration, not a single person nor any claiming asylum, for some time, like a year or two (make up for Biden's defacto open borders, work down the backed up immigration court hearing docket) and then only consider and potentially accept those who apply for immigration and follow prescribed legal immigration procedures.

 

[reflechissez]

We have enough of our own citizens out of work...why should we import non-citizens who often don't share our values or even want to be an American...they just want our money.

Which values are those? There are a lot of permanent residents here who are not citizens. Should we kick them out?

 

[Lucky 1]

What planet have you been on? it's widely talked about how people are having trouble hiring. Many people leaving the job market as we have an aging population. People are struggling to fill positions.



This is always such a BS argument. Legal immigration is very expensive, and takes a very long time, and not everybody can even qualify. And many people who come here, are looking for work to make money to survive, they can't afford the 10s of thousands in attorney and other fees to come legally. If they are even eligible or selected to immigrate legally in the first place.

oTS NOT A b.s AURGUMENT....COMING TO OUR COUNTRY SHOULD COST AND IT SHOULD BE HARD AND TIME CONSUMING

Which values are those?

American values....duh!

 

[reflechissez]

Simple. Open up the borders.

"But you can't just let anyone in!"

Sure you can, that's literally how things were all throughout history up until the Chinese Exclusion Act and the beginning of the racist immigration regime we now know.

And before people start going off about MS-13, and trafficking, and cartels, the majority of "illegal" immigrants are visa overstays (not that it would matter if they were ALL Mexican and central American migrants).

We have open borders between states. The fact that we draw restrictive borders at the national level is a completely arbitrary conception.

Also, economists generally agree that open immigration is a net positive for the economy.

Our birthrate is negative. Without immigrants, our economy doesn't grow.

 

[reflechissez]

American values....duh!

So, a bumper sticker. ok.

 

[StillBallin75]

Our birthrate is negative. Without immigrants, our economy doesn't grow.

I don't know if the right-wing assholes know that or care, my overall point is that even if the immigration were completely unfettered it would be a net positive.

Just trying to forestall the "I don't hate immigrants i just hate IlLeGaLs" folks, who are motivated by bigotry and xenophobia regardless.

 

[Lloyd Christmas]

oTS NOT A b.s AURGUMENT....COMING TO OUR COUNTRY SHOULD COST AND IT SHOULD BE HARD AND TIME CONSUMING

American values....duh!

LOL, you didn't even make an argument. Thanks for yet again proving liberals are right about everything and confirming that right wingers don't know shit about anything. It's not even good trolling as its just embarrassing