How Do We Fix Immigration?

[Peacenik]

When Mayorkas was asked what was the greatest domestic terrorist threat he answered "white supremacists".

When asked to provide the names of said "white supremacist" organizations he couldn't name any.

Probably because there are hundreds of them. Here's a list.

The Elite Establishment which controls our government and media is using hatred to divide our nation.

The "elite establishment?" Do you mean the super-rich who have bought out our government? If so, I would agree in part. Some of them most certainly contribute dark money (secret contributions) to propaganda groups which spread lies and fuel hatred. A lot of the lies spread are misinformation about immigrants.

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

Never saw Republicans do anything about creating a better immigration policy when they had the majority.

"Voters" will not "resonate with the threat of more illegals." Hateful Republican voters will. There are more voters in this country than just the hateful Republican voters. Plenty of people will vote for compassionate policy. But that is not as big a motivator as hatred, so hatred will probably win. And that's too bad. Hatred never made a country greater.

Republicans will never do anything about creating a better immigration policy when they have the majority. Never did, never will. Having a bad policy motivates the hateful Republican voters. Republican politicians know it. They will stay away from it.

Republican voters are overwhelmingly motivated by hatred and anger. I don't see any Republican vision for creating effective new policy to address the situation. They certainly don't want to look at why people are coming here or do anything about that. They just want to be isolationist and put up walls.

Natural born Americans cause more crime than undocumented immigrants do. That's a fact. And it only makes sense. Anybody willing to enter/remain without documentation knows that if they get into any trouble they face deportation. And besides. Why are they here? To find work. All they want to do is work hard and enjoy a more secure life than the place they left, which probably is not secure and has little opportunity, because of gangs. Drug gangs created by the American drug war. Just like alcohol prohibition created organized crime.

President Biden is doing an excellent job. Republicans saying otherwise are just looking for a chance to gain power any way they can. And it's big profits for Fox to wave the hatred flag. Nothing sells advertising like strong emotions - such as hatred.

And it's a grand propaganda distraction job. Blame the immigrants for making your life lousy instead of the rich and powerful who are really sticking it to ya. As if immigrants make any decisions affecting your life... Hello. It's the rich and powerful! They are causing inflation. The Republican big oil execs refuse to drill more. They could, but they won't. They like gas prices high (which drives everything else up.)

We should probably socialize our energy industry. The government would do a FAR better job of THAT function. As long as progressives are running it.

How about we just enforce our immigration laws instead of virtually putting up a welcome sign.

 

[Crunchtime]

How about we just enforce our immigration laws instead of virtually putting up a welcome sign.

That’s where it begins. That’s what legislation is about. Make laws. Enforce laws. Amend laws if necessary.

 

[it's just me]

OK, look. This is BS. I came here to talk about ideas for fixing immigration. I am not here to be an enabler for online abuse.

Drop the attitude and we can talk about the original subject.

This animosity over immigrants is absurd. Guess what nearly all immigrants want in the USA? They want a good life where they can work hard, be productive, follow the rules, be good neighbors. In short, what they really want to do is make America great again.

All they require is for people to give them a chance.

We can build a fantastic new America, more diverse, more amazing. Everybody equal. Nobody is special, nobody is dirt. Better than what we have.

Progress.

You can't stop it.

I don't have to stop it, it will never get started. People have been peddling these bullshit ideas about a brave new world for as long as I can remember and all it ever amounts to is making politicians rich and famous while the people who want to "talk" about it and not get their hands dirty just demand that someone else put up the money.

Want to change the world? Get your hands dirty. Until you are ready to do something other than "talk" you're not going to get anywhere. Have Bernie Sanders or AOC pony up some money out of their own pockets instead of picking our pockets.

 

[it's just me]

So there is no more racism? No right wing hate groups? No right wing white supremacy groups? The SPLC made it all up? And the 'establishment' just buys into it? Is that it?

The racism is on the political left. I am so sick of the left blaming "old white men" (like me) for everything. Yes, the SPLC thinks they fight racism by being racists, sexist, ageists, and generally acting like the people you want to blame everything on.

 

[Peacenik]

How about we just enforce our immigration laws instead of virtually putting up a welcome sign.

How does that 'just enforce our immigration laws' thing work? Who pays for it?

Ya now, it seems like an overly simplistic answer.

Like, if it was that easy then it woulda happened already.

Did Trump let you down? Why didn't it happen when he was in charge?

I can guess why.

The job is bigger than the tools we have.

The job: Keep everybody who isn't a citizen or here on a legal visa out.

The tools: Our various government agencies tasked with controlling immigration.

Let us consider: Are our government agencies working hard on it? Are they doing all they can?

I would say yes. There have been no stories of ICE or Border Patrol goofing off, just sitting around doing nothing. Nope, none of that. Those people are busy every day, doing all they can with what they have to work with. And STILL they can't keep everybody out that isn't legally here.

Really, what would be needed would be to expand those agencies. More people. More equipment. More vehicles, more buildings.

Who is going to pay for all that?

How much higher should taxes be to pay for all that?

Republicans have a big problem. I hear this a lot. "Just enforce the laws we have." It's popular among Republicans who think this simple answer has not been thought of before. But I bet in order to do that taxes would have to be raised, and that is a big problem for Republicans. They can't raise taxes to do anything. They think the government can run just fine on minimal revenue.

Rock, meet hard place.

Ya wanna 'just enforce the law?'

The get ready to 'just pay higher taxes.'

 

[Peacenik]

That’s where it begins. That’s what legislation is about. Make laws. Enforce laws. Amend laws if necessary.

Neither party has been willing to introduce new immigration legislation. They are all afraid of it. There's no easy answer that everybody can agree on.

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

How does that 'just enforce our immigration laws' thing work? Who pays for it?

That's a very goofy question. The taxpayers pay for it whether or not the laws are enforced. It would actually cost less if the immigration laws were enforced.

Did Trump let you down? Why didn't it happen when he was in charge?

No. Trump did build most of the wall, put in place the remain in Mexico policy and had illegal immigration down to a trickle by the timehe left office.

The job is bigger than the tools we have.

No, we just have to use the tools we have. And while we are at it, let's be honest. Those of you on the left do not want those laws enforced. To you, every illegal immigrant is a potential democrat voter who can be plied with government entitlements.

 

[Peacenik]

I don't have to stop it, it will never get started. People have been peddling these bullshit ideas about a brave new world for as long as I can remember and all it ever amounts to is making politicians rich and famous while the people who want to "talk" about it and not get their hands dirty just demand that someone else put up the money.

Want to change the world? Get your hands dirty. Until you are ready to do something other than "talk" you're not going to get anywhere. Have Bernie Sanders or AOC pony up some money out of their own pockets instead of picking our pockets.

Progress is going on all the time. It can't be stopped. It can only be shaped and guided. The dirty work is in actually talking to people of different views and brainstorming solutions to common problems. Talking . Listening. Considering all concerns. Understanding that nobody can get their way all the time, that there has to be compromise.

The problem with Republicans is they refuse to compromise.

The obvious solution to the immigration problem is to vastly increase legal immigration. The compromise is in how much to increase it. A lot or a little. Democrats would want a large increase. Republicans won't even talk about it. Any Republican who shows any weakness on it is targeted by an extremist primary challenge.

 

[TypicalRussian]

Decades and decades of immigration, both legal and illegal have brought us to this point in time. Immigration has built our nation, but some people think immigration is destroying our nation. Congress has failed to act during both Republican and Democratic majorities.

What needs to be done?

What should Congress do?

Let's hear all the ideas.

Maybe we can brainstorm a solution.

Here are some ideas, all over the map:

complete moratorium for 10 years at least

 

[Peacenik]

The racism is on the political left. I am so sick of the left blaming "old white men" (like me) for everything. Yes, the SPLC thinks they fight racism by being racists, sexist, ageists, and generally acting like the people you want to blame everything on.

Interesting view. So, racism is still a problem, but it's all on the left? There is no more racism on the right?

I disagree.

That doesn't seem realistic. Dylann Roof, 28, white, will spend the entire rest of his life behind bars because he is a racist right wing hater of blacks, who went on a completely unprovoked surprise shooting spree in a black church. He said he was hoping to start a race war. He was convicted of hate crimes for hating black people just because they are black.

Racism against blacks is very much still a big problem.

3 racists in Georgia gunned down Ahmaud Arbery because he was black and they hated blacks. The local police did nothing about it for months. (more racism) finally, the Georgia Bureau of Investigation had to step in and make the arrests because the 'good old boy' locals were just looking the other way.

Racism and xenophobia are very big problems in the USA

And then we have this greedy ugly Tucker Carlson making millions of dollars for spreading hatred. He is telling his listeners that immigrants are bad people and they are going to 'take away your country' if you don't fight immigration. Such lies are hurting our country but people fall for it and he makes millions for doing it. Xenophobia and racism are closely linked and both hurt our nation.

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

The obvious solution to the immigration problem is to vastly increase legal immigration. The compromise is in how much to increase it. A lot or a little. Democrats would want a large increase. Republicans won't even talk about it. Any Republican who shows any weakness on it is targeted by an extremist primary challenge.

It's not a matter of how much legal immigration the democrats or republicans want. It's a matter of what is legal or what is not. The USA has more legal immigration then any other nation on the planet. More then twice the amount of legal immigrants then the nation with the second most legal immigrants. There are no limits on legal immigration. You simply must follow the laws and emigrate legally.

 

[Peacenik]

That's a very goofy question. The taxpayers pay for it whether or not the laws are enforced. It would actually cost less if the immigration laws were enforced.

Interesting notion. I don't see how that works. Can you delve further into why you believe that?

No. Trump did build most of the wall,

Trump actually built very little new wall. Some older sections got upgraded. A few miles of new wall was constructed. Republicans failed to fund much new construction when they had the chance during the first 2 years of Trump.

put in place the remain in Mexico policy and had illegal immigration down to a trickle by the timehe left office.

I don't believe that is correct. They never slowed down. They just kept coming and coming. And that was just the ones with no money. The ones with money get a visa, fly over the wall, and then just overstay their visa. The wall is useless for that.

No, we just have to use the tools we have. And while we are at it, let's be honest. Those of you on the left do not want those laws enforced. To you, every illegal immigrant is a potential democrat voter who can be plied with government entitlements.

That's the Tucker Carlson narrative but his lawyers argued in court he cannot be relied on for facts, that his show is 'for entertainment purposes only.' Tucker Carlson is not a newscaster. It's a talk show. He says things that get people's emotions all stirred up because when that happens they are fare more likely to soak up the advertisement messaging. Getting people angry sells more product so Carlson says provocative things.

There is no 'just' do this, and the immigration problem goes away. It's a big problem with no easy solution.

 

[Peacenik]

complete moratorium for 10 years at least

Then pay higher taxes to fund it.

 

[Peacenik]

It's not a matter of how much legal immigration the democrats or republicans want. It's a matter of what is legal or what is not. The USA has more legal immigration then any other nation on the planet. More then twice the amount of legal immigrants then the nation with the second most legal immigrants. There are no limits on legal immigration. You simply must follow the laws and emigrate legally.

Don't we have quotas?

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

Interesting notion. I don't see how that works. Can you delve further into why you believe that?

Because believing otherwise would be stupid and ignorant.

Trump actually built very little new wall. Some older sections got upgraded. A few miles of new wall was constructed. Republicans failed to fund much new construction when they had the chance during the first 2 years of Trump.

That's a false claim. 438 miles of new wall was built.

I don't believe that is correct. They never slowed down. They just kept coming and coming. And that was just the ones with no money. The ones with money get a visa, fly over the wall, and then just overstay their visa. The wall is useless for that.

It does not matter what you choose to believe.

Illegal Immigration Slows Under Trump as Migrants Say They'll Wait Out His Term in Mexico Before Trying Again

Almost a million migrants have entered the US via the southern border in the past 12 months. President Trump's controversial "Remain in Mexico" policy has slowed the rate of immigrants. Many now say they'll wait out Trump's term in office and try again when the U.S. has a new president.

www1.cbn.com

That's the Tucker Carlson narrative but his lawyers argued in court he cannot be relied on for facts, that his show is 'for entertainment purposes only.' Tucker Carlson is not a newscaster. It's a talk show. He says things that get people's emotions all stirred up because when that happens they are fare more likely to soak up the advertisement messaging. Getting people angry sells more product so Carlson says provocative things.

Yawn.......

There is no 'just' do this, and the immigration problem goes away. It's a big problem with no easy solution.

Yes there is. It's a matter of willingness. Other nations have effective border control. There is no reason we cannot as well.

 

[Crunchtime]

How does that 'just enforce our immigration laws' thing work? Who pays for it?

Ya now, it seems like an overly simplistic answer.

Like, if it was that easy then it woulda happened already.

Did Trump let you down? Why didn't it happen when he was in charge?

I can guess why.

The job is bigger than the tools we have.

The job: Keep everybody who isn't a citizen or here on a legal visa out.

The tools: Our various government agencies tasked with controlling immigration.

Let us consider: Are our government agencies working hard on it? Are they doing all they can?

I would say yes. There have been no stories of ICE or Border Patrol goofing off, just sitting around doing nothing. Nope, none of that. Those people are busy every day, doing all they can with what they have to work with. And STILL they can't keep everybody out that isn't legally here.

Really, what would be needed would be to expand those agencies. More people. More equipment. More vehicles, more buildings.

Who is going to pay for all that?

How much higher should taxes be to pay for all that?

Republicans have a big problem. I hear this a lot. "Just enforce the laws we have." It's popular among Republicans who think this simple answer has not been thought of before. But I bet in order to do that taxes would have to be raised, and that is a big problem for Republicans. They can't raise taxes to do anything. They think the government can run just fine on minimal revenue.

Rock, meet hard place.

Ya wanna 'just enforce the law?'

The get ready to 'just pay higher taxes.'

Start with finishing the wall. It’s paid for. Material rusting away because Biden is bowing to the progressives. Build the wall.

 

[TypicalRussian]

Then pay higher taxes to fund it.

Deal.

 

[it's just me]

Interesting view. So, racism is still a problem, but it's all on the left? There is no more racism on the right?

I disagree.

That doesn't seem realistic. Dylann Roof, 28, white, will spend the entire rest of his life behind bars because he is a racist right wing hater of blacks, who went on a completely unprovoked surprise shooting spree in a black church. He said he was hoping to start a race war. He was convicted of hate crimes for hating black people just because they are black.

Racism against blacks is very much still a big problem.

3 racists in Georgia gunned down Ahmaud Arbery because he was black and they hated blacks. The local police did nothing about it for months. (more racism) finally, the Georgia Bureau of Investigation had to step in and make the arrests because the 'good old boy' locals were just looking the other way.

Racism and xenophobia are very big problems in the USA

And then we have this greedy ugly Tucker Carlson making millions of dollars for spreading hatred. He is telling his listeners that immigrants are bad people and they are going to 'take away your country' if you don't fight immigration. Such lies are hurting our country but people fall for it and he makes millions for doing it. Xenophobia and racism are closely linked and both hurt our nation.

Talk,talk,talk,talk,talk. You cite Dylan Roof, a garden variety nutjob because he's a convenient scapegoat for your fantasies. He wasn't an everyday racist/sexist/bigot like our friends on the left, who want to start their own race war.

And you obviously don't watch Tucker Carlson, if you did you wouldn't have to lie about what he says.

 

[devildavid]

No, its a hate group. They cause hate, they dont "fight" it.

Give one example of the hate they have caused.

 

[Doug64]

Right wing hatred in America is far more extensive than left wing hatred. There's just no getting around it. That's the way it is.

Right, just who was it that torched so many cities in 2020? Who was it that essentially had Pacific Northwest cities under siege? And who is it who is now chucking Molotov cocktails at headquarters of pro-life advocates?

 

[Peacenik]

Talk,talk,talk,talk,talk. You cite Dylan Roof, a garden variety nutjob because he's a convenient scapegoat for your fantasies. He wasn't an everyday racist/sexist/bigot like our friends on the left, who want to start their own race war.

And you obviously don't watch Tucker Carlson, if you did you wouldn't have to lie about what he says.

Sorry if you're trying to pretend there is no more racism but there is.

No, the problem is not on the left.

The problem is that right wing extremists have taken over the Republican party and taken extremism mainstream. And they fear that immigrants are going to 'take their country away from them.'

Because Tucker Carlson told them so.

On his 'for entertainment purposes only' show, as his own lawyers argued in court.

According to Judge Vyskocil, “Fox persuasively argues . . . that given Mr. Carlson's reputation, any reasonable viewer arrives with an appropriate amount of skepticism about the statements he makes." She doesn't stop there, writing that “[w]hether the Court frames Mr. Carlson's statements as exaggeration, non-literal commentary, or simply bloviating for his audience, the conclusion remains the same—the statements are not actionable."

Judge: Tucker Carlson Successfully Argues In Court That Nobody Really Believes Tucker Carlson Is Reporting Facts ​

 

[Peacenik]

Deal.

I'll believe it when I see Republicans campaigning on raising taxes to increase immigration law enforcement.

 

[Peacenik]

Start with finishing the wall. It’s paid for. Material rusting away because Biden is bowing to the progressives. Build the wall.

The whole wall is not paid for. And it would be a waste of money better spent elsewhere, spent on reuniting families separated by Trump.

 

[it's just me]

Sorry if you're trying to pretend there is no more racism but there is.

No, the problem is not on the left.

The problem is that right wing extremists have taken over the Republican party and taken extremism mainstream. And they fear that immigrants are going to 'take their country away from them.'

Because Tucker Carlson told them so.

On his 'for entertainment purposes only' show, as his own lawyers argued in court.

Judge: Tucker Carlson Successfully Argues In Court That Nobody Really Believes Tucker Carlson Is Reporting Facts ​

Sorry if you're trying to pretend there is no more racism but there is.

No, the problem is not on the left.

The problem is that right wing extremists have taken over the Republican party and taken extremism mainstream. And they fear that immigrants are going to 'take their country away from them.'

Because Tucker Carlson told them so.

On his 'for entertainment purposes only' show, as his own lawyers argued in court.

Judge: Tucker Carlson Successfully Argues In Court That Nobody Really Believes Tucker Carlson Is Reporting Facts ​

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Sorry if you're trying to pretend there is no more racism but there is.

No, the problem is not on the left.

The problem is that right wing extremists have taken over the Republican party and taken extremism mainstream. And they fear that immigrants are going to 'take their country away from them.'

Because Tucker Carlson told them so.

On his 'for entertainment purposes only' show, as his own lawyers argued in court.

Judge: Tucker Carlson Successfully Argues In Court That Nobody Really Believes Tucker Carlson Is Reporting Facts ​

This is BS ^