- Joined
- Sep 14, 2011
- Messages
- 26,629
- Reaction score
- 6,661
- Location
- Florida
- Gender
- Undisclosed
- Political Leaning
- Conservative
Strawman. Never made that argument in this thread.
And the people I showed in the videos were sharecroppers, not slaves (as in body owned by another). You don't know how to differentiate the two so you have no need of lecturing about anything in this thread.
Oh the martyrs!
The torture based economy of the USA--as this historian and author calls it--fueled the US economy and the industrial north. So, no, the money made from slavery did not just sit in the hands or under the beds of aristocratic Southern slave owners. Nor did the cotton picked merely stay in the towns of the South.
The American West was not driving cotton crops that were being sold all over Europe.
As I said in my earlier posts in this thread the United States industrialized. Did you read my post about the lecture and graph in my Developmental Economics course and how industrial countries economies grew exponentially? Only and handful of countries on earth embraced industrialization. Latin America essentially did not. Albeit, the City of Sao Paulo was a very industrialized city in the late 1800s but it was more an exception. Agrarian societies like Latin America sold their raw resources (not finished goods) to industrial countries who turned those raw goods into finished products. Industrial societies like the USA could take its raw resources and turn them into finished products and export them overseas, adding value as economists would say, to those raw materials.
But slavery itself did not only benefit a Southern aristocracy. That's not even how the so-called "circular flow" of an economy works. The material and money produced in the South added to the United States GDP.
The United States did not simply "leave" slavery behind. Brazil you might say did because Brazil never fought a Civil War to end slavery.
Slavery was in fact a moral issue for many in the United States. Like most German-Americans in Wisconsin who almost all where abolitionist. Those sympathies that is. Or what... the North fought the war against the South so that it could mechanize the Southern slave crops and pay white field workers a middle-class wage in the late 1880s?
Wait... what the hell does any of that have to do with picking cotton and tobacco and rice? Black-American slaves were mainly employee in steel and shipping? The US Civil War was fought to free black slaves toiling in steel production and working in the ports and on ships, that's what the US Civil War was fought over?
Riddle me how my Black-American grandfather was toiling in poverty in Mississippi as a sharecropper--before he came up North to Milwaukee and worked in the factories--if the North came to bring blessed productivity to Southern agricultural fields by paying black labor so damn much money to work?
Like this woman... who was a sharecropper:
Im from Europe and i actually want to know few things here in how America become one of the most powerful countries in the world? I know few things but I some few questions, too if someone can help me explain it better, I will gladely appreciate it
I know tobaccoo was not an example of mercantilism it was an example of capitalism, the British then tried to use mercantilism to profit from the success of tobacco in the colonies.
America would NOT have been anywhere near ready to explode in the Industrial Revolution if not for a more than 200 year head start in part due to slavery. Some estimate that by 1860 slaves had a value of 3.5 BILLION dollars to the US and a big chunk of that was tobacco(and cotton).That allowed the US, in particular the South, to grow MUCH faster than it would have otherwise grown. Slavery happened all over the world and lots of nations used slavery to get ahead economically but there are very strong arguments that no country derived more economic benefit from Slavery than the US did. Tobacco btw did not die out because of the Civil War, it was already massively in decline prior to that, the end ofgrowth of tobacco started with the Revolutionary War. It was the biggest cash crop and then got replaced over time by cotton. Obviously still a very large tobacco industry in the US(unfortunately) but it was already on the decline before the Civil War.
Saying the US economy took off after slavery was abolished is sort of like giving Trumpcredit for a stock market that was up more under his predecessor than it is under him. Things don't go from 0 to 200 in 1 second, the US economy got a more than 200 year headstart due to slavery. It's one of the things we're all aware of but don't talk about because it's frankly a terrible part of our history. What economicpolicy you think led to the US being sodominant?
If the 200 year headstart on the industrial revolution As slavery existed all over the world, throughout history up until the late 18th century when it started to die out. Literally every super power up to then was built on slavery.
Therefore, to say the US had an advantage in the industrial because of slavery is stupid.
The first power to start the abolition of slavery was the UK. Which is also where the industrial revolution started, at around the same time
how do you explain the industrial revolution starting in the UK before it started in the US? and how do you explain it happening in the north without slavery while it did not happen in the south until after the war?
So is it true that the US became the greatest superpower in history on the backs of slavery.??
If the South was more capitalist then how come all the commerce centers were in the North?
I don't recall "economic powerhouse" used much during the 1930s. We were too poor to pay attention.
Then, Pearl Harbor was attacked.
Truth be known, it was the war machine that brought us prosperity. War debt is counted in casualties. The rest is verifiable deficit.
Sorry, but you're just going to continue to be willfully ignorant and wrong. Other countries were also industrialized. There was nothing unique about the industrial revolution in the U.S.,
unless you count not being blown up in a world war as unique.
All the wealth that the U.S. gained from slavery was wiped out, as I factually proved.
And what do we see now? People have rebuilt since the World Wars, and had babies to replace the dead. Further, other countries that weren't developed during that time have now become so. Now there is competition and you see things like the EU zone now being a bigger economy than the US.
Good god. Talk about word vomit. The ENTIRE point of my statement is that the United States did not become an economic powerhouse on the backs of slaves. Attempting to claim that is INSANE. Why? Because we were not the premier economy until after slaves were gone. And our industries that truly fueled our economic expansion and dominance in the globe were NOT based on slave labor. Period. There is no debating that. Steel, coal, shipping, and major agricultural growth as we expanded west. Coal and rapid industrialization paved the way for our truly dominating economic structure. And as stated...our policies economically as well.
The Majority Report with Sam Seder
Published on Oct 16, 2014
Cornell University Professor Edward E. Baptist author of The Half Has Never Been Told: Slavery and the Making of American Capitalism...
Again. Trying to claim our economy is based on slaves ignores the FACT that the slavery market was abolished before the growth of our economy to a truly significant global scale. It also ignores the plunging market of cotton post war...the one product that was truly based on slave labor that did have some global strength. Our economy is founded on industry and then agriculture. And not slave based ag. Industrial agriculture.
The slave worked crops of the South certainly fueled the prosperity of the Northern cities as well as the GDP or National Income of the entire country of the United States.
But how the Great American Middle Class came to be, and the United States as the only super-power (post fall of Soviet Union), and the US eventually having the largest GDP of any country on earth comprises many things or many reasons. It was not solely and slavery.
I don't recall "economic powerhouse" used much during the 1930s. We were too poor to pay attention.
Then, Pearl Harbor was attacked.
Truth be known, it was the war machine that brought us prosperity. War debt is counted in casualties. The rest is verifiable deficit.
No, there is no "period" to it, as slave labor in the agricultural fields was a critical component to the American GDP. That's why America used slavery. As this scholar of this book I have already read states and provides the data for.
Slavery is not the only reason and explanation for why the USA became a superpower, but the early economic growth of the USA can not be divorced from slavery and that slave labor dismissed.
What the hell are you talking about other than spewing out your word vomit of a strawman?
My post #33:
https://www.debatepolitics.com/religion-and-politics/304580-did-america-economically-become-greatest-country-4.html#post1067976166
My first two paragraphs in that post #33:
Bold and underlined my emphasis here (in this post). I made a mistake placing that "and" in between solely and slavery.
Where the hell did I say or insinuate the US ever got to where it is today just on slavery alone? The scholar of that book calls, correctly so, the period of America history with slaver a torture based economy. That's exactly what is was, precisely what it was. I don't give a damn if there were free whites working (and those free white kids were tied to poles in US factories and whipped across their backs if caught falling asleep, the adult worker in contrast the bosses simply deducted from their paychecks as punishment).
In my post #34 I don't say or insinuate slavery is the only means by which the USA would rise to become a superpower: https://www.debatepolitics.com/religion-and-politics/304580-did-america-economically-become-greatest-country-4.html#post1067976187
Slave labor significantly contributed to the economic rise of the United States. And historically many powerful countries used slave--inexpensive--labor to build their nations up. The point is black slave labor has as much right to esteem in the history of US labor as white steel workers out east (like the former Bethlehem Steel) or German-American craftsmen that labored in Milwaukee.
The United States spent money rebuilding Europe and Japan after WWII in part, so it is I was taught in university, so the USA could have consumers over there to buy the goods the USA wanted to export globally, now that after WWII it found itself having an export monopoly.
I love how white Americans like to claim, "The problem with Black-America is that they don't value education and won't go to university to learn," but once a ethnic Black-American as myself does and correct some of half truths, or some totally false things, that some white person like you states then all of a sudden our education and semesters spent studying and taking exams are meaningless and we are dumb. If I were "willfully ignorant" as a biology major I would never have taken it upon myself to take courses like a history of labor in the USA and developmental economics which were not prerequisite for my major. I took them out of interest and for intellectual growth.
And you? What did you do... read a pro-Southern sympathy revisionist history book? And some how you think I'm a ignorant black that never knew nothing and has never wanted to know anything, whereas you think of yourself as some half a__ Albert Einstein, eh?
Now, into the 1970s it is claimed by some that corporate America colluded to export American jobs abroad under the proposition: For corporate profits rates to keep increasing the average American family *must* take a decline in their lifestyle (jobs and wages it is meant).
Nota bene, this Chinese businessman (I think billionaire) at roughly the 0:55 mark of the video says about 30 years (probably circa 1987) ago he heard America had this great plan: to outsource our manufacturing jobs to China, Mexico and so on. He apparently heard that in China. And that would seem to indicate the shipping of jobs away from the USA (manufacturing ones at least) was planned, orchestrate, not accidental.
Other who? I took a 300 level developmental economics course in which the professor in lectured showed the exponential economic growth of ALL industrialized countries in contrast to the non-industrialized countries in the late 1800s and early 1990s like those of Latin America. The one that is ignorant is you.
Colombia and the USA both had black slaves from the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade. The difference is the USA industrialized and Colombia did not. You said other countries had slavery (insinuating black slaves from the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade, and insinuating Latin America and the Caribbean) and so I was poiunting out that yes indeed other countries like Colombia and Brazil did have slavery but the USA industrialized.
Prior to industrialization the USA was on par with Mexico and other Latin American countries.
The one who is ignorant--and willfully so--is you.
World War II took place in the 1940s. The Industrial Revolution began in the 1800s.
The USA retained its industrial cities. What are resources: land (including wood, gold, etc.), labor (population size as well as skill level of workforce), and capital (factories, tools, machines etc.)
Just as WWII did not wipe out US industrial cities, the Civil War did not wipe out Northern Industrial cities. The US South was largely agrarian based and in fact all the way into what... 1960 the most industrialized large city of the South was probably Birmingham, Alabama (and it was a union town and had the most notorious KKK chapter in the country during the 1960s too).
So, the debt incurred by the US Civil War was due to civil war, and not from black Southern slaves being unproductive agricultural workers (which is the stupid s__ you insinuated). But even with the increased national debt, the many industrial towns of the North having their factories would allow for a productive workforce in terms of finished goods, that is raw resources that have value added to them (e.g., raw wood turned into a desk, cotton turned into shirts etc.).
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?