How can libertarians hate liberals?

[ngdawg]

Your question is :How can libertarians hate liberals? He answered AS a libertarian....
If you asked How Can Republicans Hate Democrats, did you think a republican would give a scientific hypothesis?
Libertarian/Liberal/Conservative are all personal philosophies...you're just not going to get a unbiased opinion when you ask a biased question.

 

[ngdawg]

Final thought since I didn't see that last paragraph..I call'em as I see'em and can usually figure out, specially with an answer of 'eh, whatever, dude', that you're not too worldly...As for being patronizing, etc., I'm not...I simply consider the source. I don't care if you're 16, 56, or 96, if you're trying to 'learn' as you put it, dismissing an reply because it doesn't suit your needs is not learning nor is it debating. It's the act of someone who doesn't like the dish served so they throw a tantrum...something I see an awful lot of here.

 

[FinnMacCool]

Thats because his reply was a load of bulllshit which I thought was meant to inflame. Perhaps my thread is misunderstood? Maybe if I was more clear saying 'why do liberterian citizens hate liberal citizens' instead of 'why do liberterian politicians hate liberal politicians' and as none of the things that he said express any of the true ideas of all liberals merely the actions of the politicians. Seriously just because one claims to be conservative or liberal doesn't mean they actually are. Hell Long Island, where I live, has been controled for a long time by the republicans. Whenever theres an incoming election they attack the liberals saying they will raise taxes and stuff like that when Long Island has the highest taxes in the country so really they are just a bunch of liars.

 

[ngdawg]

Wording means everything. And asking How can libertarians hate liberals is asking for just the replies you got. Had you phrased it as Do they hate or more, Do Libertarians Have Anything in Common With Liberals, that is probably more of what you wanted to learn, if I may be so bold as to assume....
But you will also always have to work under the assumption, when asking about any even remotely opposing positions, that you are going to get impassioned responses and shrugging them off teaches you nothing, inflames the one who took the time to answer and makes you look like a baiter. K? K...

 

[FinnMacCool]

Well I actually thought it was kinda obvious but perhaps I was wrong. . .well at least some people managed to decipher the hidden message of my thread. To them, I thank.

 

[Technocratic_Utilitarian]

Who do you think financed the Bolshevik and other Socialist revolutions around the world?

MORGAN, ROCKEFELLER, WARBURG, ROTHSCHILD, CARNEGIE

Why?

CENTRAL BANK MONOPOLY

Here is a link to a free download-- video documentary, which explains how the International Bankers control the world.

PART 2 70 MB
PART 1 89 MB

Download part 1 first to watch from the begining.

http://www.archive.org/details/MoneyMasters

And next week we examine a new, more exciting conspiracy theory!

 

[TurtleDude]

Thats because his reply was a load of bulllshit which I thought was meant to inflame. Perhaps my thread is misunderstood? Maybe if I was more clear saying 'why do liberterian citizens hate liberal citizens' instead of 'why do liberterian politicians hate liberal politicians' and as none of the things that he said express any of the true ideas of all liberals merely the actions of the politicians. Seriously just because one claims to be conservative or liberal doesn't mean they actually are. Hell Long Island, where I live, has been controled for a long time by the republicans. Whenever theres an incoming election they attack the liberals saying they will raise taxes and stuff like that when Long Island has the highest taxes in the country so really they are just a bunch of liars.

Your reply is either dishonest or extremely ignorant. You asked a question-I told you the perception most libertarians I know h ave of liberals is exactly as I stated it. Like it or not kid, liberals are the people who push gun control in this country which is ANATHEMA to libertarians. Liberals push for governmental control over private property which again is anathema to libertarians, Liberals push for redistributionist tax policies

that some liberals do not is not a valid attempt to counter my answer which you can't do anyway since you asked for an answer based on perception
Dawg is right about you.

I really don't hate liberals. I hate what liberal policies have done to this country including the expansion of the federal government that both parties engage in because FDR set the stage and empowered that to happen. I hate the destruction of inner city families based on the Great Society nonsense. Liberal politicians are trying to disarm honest citizens and that is something no one who understands the issue can even debate. As to taxes-the death tax and progressive income taxes are strongly supported by liberals

 

[ALiberalModerate]

1) liberal is a misunderstood term today. american liberals tend to be statist reactionary parasites

2) "liberals" believe that the state is more important than the individual. that the village is the basic unit not the individual, not the family

3) every major gun ban in US history has been pushed or passed by "liberals"

4) the liberals defend the death confiscation tax which counters libertarian ideals two ways-a)social engineering and b) taxking wealth for no other reason than its wealth

5) liberals push for control of private property

6) liberals are as bad as the conservatives on the war on drugs

7) liberals are the only people pushing for a draft now

8) liberals push for group rights such as affirmative action. group rights are anathema to libertarians

Wow I am sure that your portrayal of liberals is very objective being in the first sentence you referred to them as parasites. :roll:

Liberals are as against the war on drugs and libertarians are. The difference between a liberal and a libertarian is in matters of government involvement in environmental protections and the economy. On social issues and defense, there is no difference.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Democrats are for Big Government.

Republicans are for Big Brother.

Basically Democrats want the government out of your personal lives but in your wallet.

Republicans want the government out of your wallet, but in your personal lives.

Libertarians don’t want the government in your wallet or your personal lives.

Republicans are no closer to libertarian ideals than Democrats are. Both parties are only halfway there.

You have to figure, Libertarians are for Gay Marriage, For Abortion Rights, for the decriminalization of drugs, for the seperation of church and state, and are bigger peaceniks than even the most radically left.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

some much stupidity in one post by a kid. You misunderstood the question. You want to debate whether liberals are how libertarians perceive them

Since you aren't a libertarian you really have nothing to add and your post is proof of that. Now run off and engage in your favorite pasttime rather than buggering the board with psychobabble:roll:

I have read several of your posts on various issues. You are no libertarian. Just because you are a card carrying member of the NRA does not make you a libertarian.

 

[TurtleDude]

Wow I am sure that your portrayal of liberals is very objective being in the first sentence you referred to them as parasites. :roll:

Liberals are as against the war on drugs and libertarians are. The difference between a liberal and a libertarian is in matters of government involvement in environmental protections and the economy. On social issues and defense, there is no difference.

wrong-gun control is a social issue

many libertarians are against abortion as well-many believe that the fetus is worthy of protection against being killed

most libertarians don't worry about the ten commandments or pledge of allegiance being posted in public school

 

[128shot]

And next week we examine a new, more exciting conspiracy theory!

you I'm not huge on conspiracys myself, I don't believe any of it.



This doesn't seem like a conspiracy at all. I'm going to check the facts after I'm done watching it.....


Consider everything, it doesn't mean you have to believe it.

 

[TurtleDude]

I have read several of your posts on various issues. You are no libertarian. Just because you are a card carrying member of the NRA does not make you a libertarian.

I love lefties always thinking they are better able to tell someone else what they believe

As usual the arrogance is exceded only by the error.

1) I am against the war on drugs
2) I have no problem with gay marriage or gays serving in the military
3) I am against any form of a draft
4) I am against progressive income taxes, estate taxes etc
5) I am an absolutist on free speech-I think a flag burning amendment is idiotic

I also believe winning elections is more important than holding out for an ideal candidate who can't win. Having people that think like you in power is far more pernicious than pro war anti-drug republicans

 

[ALiberalModerate]

I love lefties always thinking they are better able to tell someone else what they believe

As usual the arrogance is exceded only by the error.

1) I am against the war on drugs
2) I have no problem with gay marriage or gays serving in the military
3) I am against any form of a draft
4) I am against progressive income taxes, estate taxes etc
5) I am an absolutist on free speech-I think a flag burning amendment is idiotic

I also believe winning elections is more important than holding out for an ideal candidate who can't win. Having people that think like you in power is far more pernicious than pro war anti-drug republicans

Libertarian ideology is pro-choice in that it does not believe that the government has a role in regulating or illegalizing abortion.

Libertarian ideology is against interventionist wars like the war in Iraq.

Libertarian ideology is strongly for the concept of a wall of separation between church and state.

Libertarian ideology is strongly against our levels of defense spending.

Myself, I am:

Against the war on drugs
Pro-choice (although I don't feel strongly one way or the other on the abortion issue)
Strongly Pro-Free Speech
Strongly pro separation of church and state.
For legalized same sex marriage
Against the war in Iraq.
Against almost all forms of gun control.

And I strongly hold the principle that an individuals liberty to live their life the way they choose to live their life extends so far as to not impede another individuals ability to do the same.

However, while I am a civil libertarian, I am not a libertarian and if you are for criminalizing abortions, for the war in Iraq, or for high levels of defense spending, you are not one either.

 

[Kandahar]

As a libertarian, I certainly don't hate liberals. I agree with them on many issues, such as withdrawing from Iraq and the legalization of victimless crimes. I also don't hate conservatives. I agree with them on many issues as well, such as curbing the power of eminent domain, restricting federal spending, and originalist constitutionalism.

With that said, I *do* have a dislike for the beliefs of people who fall into the more modern definitions of "liberals" and "conservatives." There is absolutely NOTHING liberal about socialism, labor union laws, or "protecting" social security and medicare. These beliefs are shockingly reactionary and it amazes me that people can support these ideas while claiming to be "progressives" with a straight face. Similarly, there is absolutely NOTHING conservative about religious zealotry, pork-barrel spending, or cronyism.

These people give true liberals and true conservatives a bad name. Sadly, our government has become infested with them.

 

[TurtleDude]

Libertarian ideology is pro-choice in that it does not believe that the government has a role in regulating or illegalizing abortion.

Libertarian ideology is against interventionist wars like the war in Iraq.

Libertarian ideology is strongly for the concept of a wall of separation between church and state.

Libertarian ideology is strongly against our levels of defense spending.

Myself, I am:

Against the war on drugs
Pro-choice (although I don't feel strongly one way or the other on the abortion issue)
Strongly Pro-Free Speech
Strongly pro separation of church and state.
For legalized same sex marriage
Against the war in Iraq.
Against almost all forms of gun control.

And I strongly hold the principle that an individuals liberty to live their life the way they choose to live their life extends so far as to not impede another individuals ability to do the same.

However, while I am a civil libertarian, I am not a libertarian and if you are for criminalizing abortions, for the war in Iraq, or for high levels of defense spending, you are not one either.

1) the abortion issue splits libertarians so stop pretending that there is only one position on this issue (I do not believe abortion should be illegal) This is a quote from the national libertarian party platform

The Issue: Recognizing that abortion is a very sensitive issue and that people, including libertarians, can hold good-faith views on both sides, we believe the government should be kept out of the question. We condemn state-funded and state-mandated abortions. It is particularly harsh to force someone who believes that abortion is murder to pay for another's abortion.

http://www.lp.org/issues/platform_all.shtml#womerigh


2) yes most libertarians are isolationists and against the Iraq war. I never claimed to be pure on all issues. I think sometimes a proactive approach is cheaper in the long run.

3) I note you didn't include any economic matters in there and its funy how civil libertarians apparently have no problem with infringing on economic liberties.

 

[TurtleDude]

BTW that site has a test

here was my result

ACCORDING TO YOUR ANSWERS,

The political description that
fits you best is...

.

LIBERTARIAN


Guess you are wrong SD :mrgreen:

 

[ALiberalModerate]

1) the abortion issue splits libertarians so stop pretending that there is only one position on this issue (I do not believe abortion should be illegal) This is a quote from the national libertarian party platform

The Issue: Recognizing that abortion is a very sensitive issue and that people, including libertarians, can hold good-faith views on both sides, we believe the government should be kept out of the question. We condemn state-funded and state-mandated abortions. It is particularly harsh to force someone who believes that abortion is murder to pay for another's abortion.

http://www.lp.org/issues/platform_all.shtml#womerigh


2) yes most libertarians are isolationists and against the Iraq war. I never claimed to be pure on all issues. I think sometimes a proactive approach is cheaper in the long run.

3) I note you didn't include any economic matters in there and its funy how civil libertarians apparently have no problem with infringing on economic liberties.

• I stated that I was a civil libertarian, not a libertarian because I am a fiscal moderate. Moreover, I am strongly conservationist and believe that the public sector does have a role in that regard. Also, while I am not in favor of the rampant lining the pockets of defense contractors so prevalent on the right, I am certainly stronger on defense than true libertarians are.

• Libertarians can either be personally for abortion or against it. People who are pro-choice can be personally for abortion or against it. The common theme is that by being pro-choice, you believe that the government should be kept out of it and it should be a personal decision made by pregnant women. Otherwise, both social liberals and libertarians hold the view that abortion should be legal.

• Libertarians are against any foreign interventionist war. Any of them. No exceptions.

You can’t just call yourself a libertarian and just pick and choose which libertarian principles you want to go with. Like I pointed out in a previous post, Democrats and Republicans are both half way libertarian.

 

[TurtleDude]

• I stated that I was a civil libertarian, not a libertarian because I am a fiscal moderate. Moreover, I am strongly conservationist and believe that the public sector does have a role in that regard. Also, while I am not in favor of the rampant lining the pockets of defense contractors so prevalent on the right, I am certainly stronger on defense than true libertarians are.

• Libertarians can either be personally for abortion or against it. People who are pro-choice can be personally for abortion or against it. The common theme is that by being pro-choice, you believe that the government should be kept out of it and it should be a personal decision made by pregnant women. Otherwise, both social liberals and libertarians hold the view that abortion should be legal.

• Libertarians are against any foreign interventionist war. Any of them. No exceptions.

You can’t just call yourself a libertarian and just pick and choose which libertarian principles you want to go with. Like I pointed out in a previous post, Democrats and Republicans are both half way libertarian.

sorry but their own test labeled me a libertarian. You call yourself a democrat yet you obviously have some disagreements with that party. You clearly pick and choose yourself. Maybe you are a member of the hypocrite party :mrgreen:

 

[ALiberalModerate]

sorry but their own test labeled me a libertarian. You call yourself a democrat yet you obviously have some disagreements with that party. You clearly pick and choose yourself. Maybe you are a member of the hypocrite party :mrgreen:

The difference is that being a Democrat is simply being a member of a political party. The same is true for being a Republican. However, while being a libertarian can mean being a member of a political party, it also means holding a specific ideology.

That test they have on their site is crap. It asks way to few questions to actually determine ones ideology.

A better one is at: www.politicalcompass.org

Take it and see where you come out.

 

[TurtleDude]

The difference is that being a Democrat is simply being a member of a political party. The same is true for being a Republican. However, while being a libertarian can mean being a member of a political party, it also means holding a specific ideology.

That test they have on their site is crap. It asks way to few questions to actually determine ones ideology.

A better one is at: www.politicalcompass.org

Take it and see where you come out.

I actually should change my profile-I am a libertarian in terms of philosophy but that wasn't an option

I took that test a while ago but I will try it and edit the post in a few mnutes. I didn't realize you had the power to determine what another person claims their philosophy is. I can note that if you don't support the democratic platform you are not a democrat

libertarian-right on their graph

 

[ALiberalModerate]

I actually should change my profile-I am a libertarian in terms of philosophy but that wasn't an option

I took that test a while ago but I will try it and edit the post in a few mnutes. I didn't realize you had the power to determine what another person claims their philosophy is. I can note that if you don't support the democratic platform you are not a democrat

libertarian-right on their graph

You have said that you are for the Iraq war and pro-life. Yet you call yourself a libertarian. Its like saying that you are a communist who is in favor of the free market.

 

[TurtleDude]

You have said that you are for the Iraq war and pro-life. Yet you call yourself a libertarian. Its like saying that you are a communist who is in favor of the free market.

you are mistaken-I never said I was pro-life. I am against making abortion illegal. I am for the Iraq war because I see it as a proactive effort to stop something far worse. IMHO that makes it just

why are you so obsessed with claiming what I am? I suspect I know the subject far better than you do and your site's test said I was right.

Libertarians can support just wars. Most probably don't think this is a JUST WAR but a communist by definition is against a free market. there is a difference between a position that no one of a certain philosophical position could ever support vs a disagreement over whether something meets the test needed to support it

Ponder that fact and you will see you are mistaken. If libertarians always oppose war under any circumstances you still wouldnt be correct be you would be less in error

 

[ngdawg]

Hmm. I took both quizzes and came out a left-leaning libertarian....
I'm for legalizing most 'illegal' drugs-think of the tax revenue!! And there'd be jobs- 'what do YOU do?' 'I work for Phillip Morris Marijuana, Quality Control'...:mrgreen:
I don't think government has ANY right to dictate who can marry whom nor do they have any rights to a woman's reproductive choices.
I do think large corporations should pay to play, not be given free rides, that they should be held totally accountable for their environmental and fiscal impacts, but make it harder for them to pick up and move to Costa Rica or somewhere for the cheap labor.
I'm totally for gun control-the laws should be tougher there.
Lawmaking has so gotten out of hand because we have allowed it to. Line-item veto is very needed and bills shouldn't have to go back and forth between houses because some senator didn't get his homestate some new telephone lines (or other bullshit they like to throw in there).
I did find some of the statements on both quizzes to be a bit misleading in that what they ask can't be truly answered as a definitive, but they were interesting nonetheless and it clarified what, if I chose it, label to put on myself(but I do detest labels so)

 

[Lucidthots]

Sociaslists "masquerade" as "liberals, which they are not.

Socialism is a TOTALITARIAN death cult.