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How can conservatives oppose endless wars when they helped create them in the first place?

Sure and his budddies weren't on the board anymore either.

What benefit did the war in Iraq to the American public?

Infrsutcutre is falling apart in the US, why is that a good thing?

US infrastructure falling apart: Pictures, details - Business Insider

You could make it a jobs program too.

How was the Iraq War a better use of money then that?

The U.S. eliminated an enemy which had killed hundreds of America citizens and would no doubt have killed many more.

And it isn't the duty of the American govt. on any level to provide jobs for people.

And for that matter "American infrastructure" IS ALWAYS "falling apart". I got 40 year old U.S. News & World Reports whose cover stories are about American infrastructure "falling apart".

Remember that even if the U.S. had perfect infrastructure roads would still develop potholes, bridges would still have cracks in them and dams would still be leaking.
 
The U.S. eliminated an enemy which had killed hundreds of America citizens and would no doubt have killed many more.

And it isn't the duty of the American govt. on any level to provide jobs for people.

And for that matter "American infrastructure" IS ALWAYS "falling apart". I got 40 year old U.S. News & World Reports whose cover stories are about American infrastructure "falling apart".

Remember that even if the U.S. had perfect infrastructure roads would still develop potholes, bridges would still have cracks in them and dams would still be leaking.

How was the Iraqi government in 2003 an enemy that killed thousands of Americans?

I think a functioning road is better for an American family than the Iraq War that created ISIS and made things worse.
 
How was the Iraqi government in 2003 an enemy that killed thousands of Americans?

I said "hundreds" not thousands. Hundreds of Americans were killed during Desert Storm. Hundreds more were killed during the 12 year containment of Iraq.
 
I said "hundreds" not thousands. Hundreds of Americans were killed during Desert Storm. Hundreds more were killed during the 12 year containment of Iraq.

That is not what the war was sold on and the Gulf War wasn't worth the blood and treasure the sequel cost. How many American soldiers and Iraqi civilians died in the Iraq War? The Iraq War created ISIS.

It seems your limited government is limiting the government to killing people through BS wars and militarized police killing innocent people. The government can never people, only kill people according to your limited government ideology.

Do you think the US should go to war with Vietnam again because of the Vietnam War?

This one of the dumbest things I have ever heard and typical of one of the few people who refuses to admit the Iraq War was a bad idea.
 
That is not what the war was sold on and the Gulf War wasn't worth the blood and treasure the sequel cost. How many American soldiers and Iraqi civilians died in the Iraq War? The Iraq War created ISIS.

It seems your limited government is limiting the government to killing people through BS wars and militarized police killing innocent people. The government can never people, only kill people according to your limited government ideology.

Do you think the US should go to war with Vietnam again because of the Vietnam War?

This one of the dumbest things I have ever heard and typical of one of the few people who refuses to admit the Iraq War was a bad idea.

As far I'm concerned all our federal govt should do is fight wars and explore space
 
As far I'm concerned all our federal govt should do is fight wars and explore space

Yeah, your small government is just endless wars where civilains in some poor developing country die and America soldiers are sent into a meat grinder, so some oil and defense company execs can get another bonus.

I guess you love veterans so much you can't wait to create a bunch of new ones.
 
Yeah, your small government is just endless wars where civilains in some poor developing country die and America soldiers are sent into a meat grinder, so some oil and defense company execs can get another bonus.

I guess you love veterans so much you can't wait to create a bunch of new ones.

Not particularly. I don't care much for Americans fawning over military veterans and law enforcement
 
Bernie Sanders opposed the war, he was a real leftist, not some neo-liberal like Clinton or Biden.

Also, the left supported the war protest movement, while the right supported the war because Sean Hannity told them to.

Doesn't matter if a lot of Democrats voted for it.

Trump increased the drone war, he did not end wars. Sure neither did Obama, but I have not given any sort of defense for Obama, Obama's actions do not justify Trump's actions and if you want to say Obama was a war hawk, that is fair, but so is Trump. Still makes Trump's dove claims false ultimately.

He has done more drones but he hasn't done regime change, like Obama did in Libya, which is much worse than drones. It's not even close. He also didn't go into Syria, despite a lot of pressure from both sides. Further, he has brokered a peace deal between Israel and the UAE. Compared to his two predecessors, he's much less of a warhawk, and since Obama got a Nobel Peace Prize, why not?

Seems like you don't want to actually address the points brought up.

Trump is the one talking about ending the wars, why isn't he cutting military spending?

He has never said he wants to cut military spending. He has, however, not gotten us more involved.

I am saying conservatives are hypocrites on this issue, they mostly all loved the Iraq war until it no longer became convenient for them and then they just washed their hands of it, instead of taking responsibility for it.

If they hated endless wars, why didn't they do anything to stop the Iraq War? Their supposed new dovish ways are false and cynical. Trump can expand the drone wars and they will just claim that it isn't happening.

So just what I said, you just want to bitch no matter what.
 
Doesn't matter if a lot of Democrats voted for it..

So drove the war policy, was it Biden, Clinton or George W. Bush?

It seems you are deflecting and do not want to talk about the GOP being the mean driver of the war, why do they get a pass from you? If you are going say, no they don't why are mentioning them? All conservatives seem to do on these boards is deflect.


He has done more drones but he hasn't done regime change, like Obama did in Libya, which is much worse than drones. It's not even close. He also didn't go into Syria, despite a lot of pressure from both sides. Further, he has brokered a peace deal between Israel and the UAE. Compared to his two predecessors, he's much less of a warhawk, and since Obama got a Nobel Peace Prize, why not?

Seems like you don't want to actually address the points brought up.

Ending the wars means ending the wars and Trump is not doing that:

Ending the Myth That Trump Is Ending the Wars | Common Dreams Views

Trump’s Record on Foreign Policy: Lost Wars, New Conflicts, and Broken Promises

Trump Is Expanding America's Wars, Not Ending Them - FPIF

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...wars-congress-must-use-war-powers-resolution/


He has never said he wants to cut military spending. He has, however, not gotten us more involved..

If he actually wanted to stop the endless wars, he would cut military spending, the military is a giant hammer that sees everything else as a nail.


So just what I said, you just want to bitch no matter what.

So of all conservatives who supported the Iraq War, how many took personal responsibility and admitted they were wrong? Seems like almost none did:

Rush Limbaugh Says Same Democrats Who Tricked George W. Bush Into Iraq War and WMDs Are Now Pushing Trump-Russia Evidence


Is that just bitching or making a point on how conservatives never apply their own rules to themselves?
 
If he actually wanted to stop the endless wars, he would cut military spending, the military is a giant hammer that sees everything else as a nail.

Spending is not what drives military conflicts. The Reagan Admin. dramatically increased military spending and what conflicts did the U.S. engage in during those 8 years?

Invading Grenada and minor dustups with Libya and Iran.. Hardly epic military conflicts.

And you forget that the U.S. military plays very little role in deciding when, where, and whom it fights.
 
ultra left wing sources with no credibility. Link to a source that supported the invasion of Iraq and I will consider it.
Mother jones ill grant, but Vox isnt really ultra lefty.
 
The U.S. eliminated an enemy which had killed hundreds of America citizens and would no doubt have killed many more.

And it isn't the duty of the American govt. on any level to provide jobs for people.

And for that matter "American infrastructure" IS ALWAYS "falling apart". I got 40 year old U.S. News & World Reports whose cover stories are about American infrastructure "falling apart".

Remember that even if the U.S. had perfect infrastructure roads would still develop potholes, bridges would still have cracks in them and dams would still be leaking.

Not really much of an argument. Paranoia is dictating your policy position.
 
As far I'm concerned all our federal govt should do is fight wars and explore space

Yes we know your obsession with machismo is well documented. Fortunately no policymaker takes this seriously.
 
How can conservatives oppose endless wars when they helped create them in the first place? George W. Bush was the one who started these endless wars and his conservative media allies like Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity supported him. Also, I know the conservatives are going to say that Biden and Clinton voted for the Iraq War and that is true, my point stands, Bush was the main driver of that war, not Biden and Clinton, and the conservative base supported him. Should conservatives take personal responsibility for their role in the endless wars, because it doesn't seem like they want to:

Rush Limbaugh Says Same Democrats Who Tricked George W. Bush Into Iraq War and WMDs Are Now Pushing Trump-Russia Evidence

Also Trump increased the amount of drone strikes, it seems like he is in favor of the endless wars:

Under Donald Trump, drone strikes far exceed Obama's numbers - Chicago Sun-Times

Conservatives also seem to claim to oppose endless wars, but they support massive military spending, which feeds the military industrail complex and its desire for more wars:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...ary-industrial-complex-its-vastly-bigger-now/

Shouldn't the US spend less on the military and more money at home, if you want to end the endless wars?

Shhhh, it's a Secret, sorta.
 
Drones can detect your kids smoking weed in the school parking lot at football games too so they have that going for them as well.

Fly them over my property on a regular basis and they ain't coming home, just saying :mrgreen:
 
Fly them over my property on a regular basis and they ain't coming home, just saying :mrgreen:

I downed a drone with a shotgun once. It was buzzing my neighbors house. I went over to warn them and asked if they wanted it shot down. They did so I did. No markings on it though.
 
Over 90% of American war deaths have been under Democratic leadership. Obama bombed more countries than any president since WW2. Biden and Harris openly want military action in Syria - the next war wanted - and have criticized Trump for bringing troops home.

President Trump is the ONLY president since WW2 not to get us into a new war.

You can rant about Bush if you want - and then I'll rant about Woodrow Wilson over WW1, Truman over the Korean War, and Kennedy/LBJ over Vietnam. Obama bombed and attacked more countries than any president since WW2.

President Trump has not gotten us into any more wars - the first since President to do so since WW2. He is the first president to openly say that the military industrial complex and upper military command will get us into endless wars since Republican President Eisenhower gave his parting "beware of the military industrial complex" speech - but too afraid to do so until the very end of his presidency.

Trump has the balls to take on the military industrial complex, military command, and the massive CIA/NSA complex prior to an election - knowing the massive political power they have. This likely will cost him the election since nearly all Democrats mindlessly vote Democratic - why Hilary Clinton and now Joe Biden are your candidates - not Bernie Sanders or one of the others - and sizable number of Republican voters are war hawkish.

There is no greater lie on the topic of war than saying Trump is the war mongering presidential candidate. It is Biden. A vote for Billionaires For Biden is a vote to go to war against Syria (and thus Russia too), while keeping us militarily everywhere else too.

By all means, do not vote for Bush - that Republicans threw to the curb - in this election. :roll:
 
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I downed a drone with a shotgun once. It was buzzing my neighbors house. I went over to warn them and asked if they wanted it shot down. They did so I did. No markings on it though.

:roll: Do you also run out into the dark firing out at scary noises with a shotgun like Biden said you should do?

Is firing a gun in public legal where you live?
 
Obama attacked more and new countries than any president since WW2. No new countries attacks by Trump - a first since ww2.

Troops are not just cannon fodder to Trump. I appreciate him using drones rather than humans to attack the enemy in countries we are already in - including for eight years of Obama.
 
:roll: Do you also run out into the dark firing out at scary noises with a shotgun like Biden said you should do?

Is firing a gun in public legal where you live?

Probably not but I've always lived in small towns (the largest place I ever lived was Tyler, TX) where even law enforcement takes a more liberal view of public displays of firearms.

Remember that I grew up in the 1970s and 80s where when deer season approached it was common for high schoolers to bring their new rifles to school every year and show them off for classmates in the parking lot.
 
Probably not but I've always lived in small towns (the largest place I ever lived was Tyler, TX) where even law enforcement takes a more liberal view of public displays of firearms.

Remember that I grew up in the 1970s and 80s where when deer season approached it was common for high schoolers to bring their new rifles to school every year and show them off for classmates in the parking lot.

There are many good things about smaller cities and towns.
 
There are many good things about smaller cities and towns.

I remember a couple of times someone actually shot their rifle into the air. Once in particular. Did anyone run and start screaming? No. Did anyone call the police? No. Instead all that happened was the duty teacher strode over in no particular hurry before yelling. "Thomas, put that thing up.". Thomas replied "Sure thing Mrs. Bradshaw" and that was that.
 
So drove the war policy, was it Biden, Clinton or George W. Bush?

Do the passengers in riding in the car to go do a robbery get a pass because they weren't driving?

It seems you are deflecting and do not want to talk about the GOP being the mean driver of the war, why do they get a pass from you? If you are going say, no they don't why are mentioning them? All conservatives seem to do on these boards is deflect.

So of all conservatives who supported the Iraq War, how many took personal responsibility and admitted they were wrong? Seems like almost none did:

Is that just bitching or making a point on how conservatives never apply their own rules to themselves?

So do you want conservatives to be pro war or not be pro war? Because it sounds like you want them to be pro war just so you can bitch about them being pro war. Again, you can't have it both ways. Further, I'd argue that it's actually a progressive position to be pro war, and just because someone is GOP doesn't automatically make it a conservative position. It was the progressives in the 20s and 30s that were wanting war and the conservatives that didn't. If you go back and look at the writings of our founders, they were not about getting involved in foreign wars (e.g. Washington's Farewell Address). So being more in line with that is a conservative position, by definition.

But let's set that aside, are you saying people can't change their positions? Like I wrote above, it was the progressives that were pro war and the conservatives that were against it. Then around the 60s they became anti-war but now Democrats are pro war again. Are you going to talk about that or no?

What end state do you want here? Do you want more war or not?
 
I remember a couple of times someone actually shot their rifle into the air. Once in particular. Did anyone run and start screaming? No. Did anyone call the police? No. Instead all that happened was the duty teacher strode over in no particular hurry before yelling. "Thomas, put that thing up.". Thomas replied "Sure thing Mrs. Bradshaw" and that was that.

Sounds good. There are many pluses to be in small cities and towns like that.

Some years ago I bought a 10 inch barrel Colt Python .357 (wish I had kept it) while traveling in Quitman, Texas. A fairly large small East Texas city. I had no idea where I could shoot it.

I saw a state trooper and game wardens vehicles parked at the downtown little cafe. So I went in and asked where I could shoot it. The troop asked, suspiciously, "who are you?" So I told him.

He said, "oh, ok. We prefer you don't shoot here on main street because someone could get hurt. But right behind this build there's an alley. You can shoot it there."

The alley behind the buildings in the old downtown - the heart of the city? Someone told me the ONLY local regs they have are two - no pigs in the city and the city is "dry" (no alcohol). I asked then how come the old hotel has a bar? Answer: "It's always had a bar." So it ok. It's where ok people go for a drink.

I love old fashioned small cities! When I first moved to this small city in Florida, I was quickly stopped by the sheriffs department and also by one of the local state troopers making some lame excuse. Why did that stop me? To ask me "who are you?" Once they knew I was an ok new local guy who had married someone whose family has been here many generations everything was fine. I've been stopped for doing 65 in a 30 and such since. But no problem because I'm one of the ok local people. Pretty much do anything you want - as long as you're "ok" for their town - and don't hurt anyone, steal anything and act decent because then you are no longer ok. I actually like that - a lot. If someone isn't ok, I'd rather they just move along elsewhere.

(It's not a racial thing, it's being one of us of the town or a visitor who comes up relatively clean on their cruiser's computer. If you're not from here and not ok, best move on elsewhere unless you like tickets. Big cities are for not ok people. :cool:)
 
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