• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

How Can a Christian Support Abortion?

Mixed View

Active member
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Messages
343
Reaction score
1
Location
MO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
"I have knit you in your mother's womb"
"I've loved you before the world began"

So apparently God thinks an unborn baby is a life, so how could any Christian support it and it not be a sin? Because in case you didn't know. Killing a life is murder and deffinetly a sin.
 

IValueFreedom

Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2005
Messages
168
Reaction score
0
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
I'm not exactly sure where you're going with this... but I'll give it a shot.

So, if I interpreted this correctly, "I have knit you in your mother's womb"
"I've loved you before the world began" is a bible quote that proves God thnk an unborn baby is a life.

So...

I have never read the bible nor this section. So you may have taken this out of context, so I'm only working with what you gave me into a possibly different interpretation.

"I have knit you in your mother's womb"

So this is not a literal meaning. God did not take out the knitting needles and go to work. So, basically, the baby is formed in the womb of the mother with God's help.

Now, the second verse is a little trickier.

"I've loved you before the world began"

So, the baby has been loved before it exsisted. This can be seen by imagination. Try imagining having a baby. Instantly, those individuals who are wanting a child will have an emotional attatchment to their made up child. There is nothing tangible but the human brain can imagine so realisticly that you start to love the idea of it.

This may be viewed as what happens when you become pregnant. That the fertilized embryo isn't actually a human, but the human brain can imagine what it will eventually form into... and that imagination will be loved.

I don't know... just trying to give some food for thought.
 

The Truth-Bringer

Active member
Joined
Jul 16, 2005
Messages
260
Reaction score
0
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
If you didnt notice, Many people who Proclaim to be "Chirstian" oolalala, Actually dont care at all and might as well go proclaim their atheist, for sleeping in church, breaking all christian morals, and denouncing god. Thats what I call "Fake Christians", People who pretend to be christians but dont follow any of the most basic moral scriptures.
 

Iriemon

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
19,405
Reaction score
2,187
Location
Miami
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Mixed View said:
"I have knit you in your mother's womb"
"I've loved you before the world began"

So apparently God thinks an unborn baby is a life, so how could any Christian support it and it not be a sin? Because in case you didn't know. Killing a life is murder and deffinetly a sin.
These are passages where God is talking to a certain individual, and a prophet at that. It does not indicate that God knits everyone in the womb, or at what point the knitting begins.

As I read it, abortion is not inconsitent with what is in the Bible at all. Actually, the fact that the Bible, which is full of rules and commandments and directives, does not contain a commandment like "thou shall not cause the early termination of a pregnancy" supports the conclusion that God does not view human life to start until after birth, or otherwise have a problem with abortion.
 
Last edited:

Timequake

Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2005
Messages
84
Reaction score
0
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Abolishing abortion conflicts with the rights given to us by the constitution. I am a Christian but I try not to let my morals interfere with another citizens individual rights. Thats why America is so great, no ones morals can interfere with my rights. As Christians we must recognize that the fetus has no constitutional rights, and therefore is not protected by the U.S. government. Since the mother does have individual rights, rights such as having an abortion, and they do not conflict with any other rights by of another individual, there is nothing we can do as of yet. So until the fetus is given these rights there should be no arguement as to whether abortion should be legal or not. This is a moral issue, not a governmental one.

against abortion... don't have one, as a Christian thats me doing all i can.
 

The Truth-Bringer

Active member
Joined
Jul 16, 2005
Messages
260
Reaction score
0
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Yet once the baby is developed, it has rights too, at around the 7-9 month period. OTherwise before then, yes its not a person, and the woman has a right to abort, but once its 9 months, sorry but she had enough time to notice a baby kicking, so she is going to have it, because the fetus has now developed into a being that moves, thinks, and grows, and needs suppllies, and with human body parts, so then its a human.
 

Ryanmodcon

New member
Joined
Aug 25, 2005
Messages
27
Reaction score
0
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
IValueFreedom said:
I'm not exactly sure where you're going with this... but I'll give it a shot.

So, if I interpreted this correctly, "I have knit you in your mother's womb"
"I've loved you before the world began" is a bible quote that proves God thnk an unborn baby is a life.

So...

I have never read the bible nor this section. So you may have taken this out of context, so I'm only working with what you gave me into a possibly different interpretation.

"I have knit you in your mother's womb"

So this is not a literal meaning. God did not take out the knitting needles and go to work. So, basically, the baby is formed in the womb of the mother with God's help.

Now, the second verse is a little trickier.

"I've loved you before the world began"

So, the baby has been loved before it exsisted. This can be seen by imagination. Try imagining having a baby. Instantly, those individuals who are wanting a child will have an emotional attatchment to their made up child. There is nothing tangible but the human brain can imagine so realisticly that you start to love the idea of it.

This may be viewed as what happens when you become pregnant. That the fertilized embryo isn't actually a human, but the human brain can imagine what it will eventually form into... and that imagination will be loved.

I don't know... just trying to give some food for thought.
I didnt read this, but I highlighted the reasons I couldnt read it, I have ADD and that distracted me too much.
 

Snoozin

Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2005
Messages
97
Reaction score
0
Location
Washington, DC
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
Ryanmodcon said:
I didnt read this, but I highlighted the reasons I couldnt read it, I have ADD and that distracted me too much.
There's medicine for that. :mrgreen:
 

steen

Lie Detector
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Messages
4,081
Reaction score
0
Location
Upper Midwest
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
Mixed View said:
How Can a Christian Support Abortion?
Easily.
"I have knit you in your mother's womb"
"I've loved you before the world began"
And so on, showing that what God knows is in existence long before the physical body. Hence, an abortion of the physical body is utterly irrelevant to God.
So apparently God thinks an unborn baby is a life,
And so is a sperm, and an egg and even a bacteria. So what?
so how could any Christian support it and it not be a sin?
Because God doesn't speak against it. Prolife dishonest conjecture and trying to claim God's will per their personal, political views is very blasphemous.
Because in case you didn't know. Killing a life is murder and deffinetly a sin.
[/quote]SO when you ate tonight, you sinned. Because some form of "life" died so you could eat.

As for the silly "murder" part, it just shows PL propensity for prolife dishonest revisionist linguistic hyperbole. "Murder" is the illegal killing of a person. The embryo is not a person and abortion is legal. So you lied.

And LYING is definitely a sin. YOU are bearing false witness.
 

steen

Lie Detector
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Messages
4,081
Reaction score
0
Location
Upper Midwest
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
The Truth-Bringer said:
Yet once the baby is developed,
That would be at birth, when it enters the developmental stage "baby." SO what? That is irrelevant to the issue of abortion.
it has rights too, at around the 7-9 month period.
At 9 months, when it is born, that is. Your claim is deceptive, it is dishonest. You are bearing false witness.
OTherwise before then, yes its not a person, and the woman has a right to abort, but once its 9 months, sorry but she had enough time to notice a baby kicking,
Uhum, yes. ( months. That's term. That's at the time of birth. Who objects to your claim per that time scale?
so she is going to have it, because the fetus has now developed into a being that moves, thinks, and grows, and needs suppllies, and with human body parts, so then its a human.
At birth? Sure. No disagreement there.
 

jimmyjack

Banned
Joined
Jul 2, 2005
Messages
1,166
Reaction score
1
Location
U.K England
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Conservative
Those that support abortion have a poor biology understanding, abortion is in fact murder.
 

FutureIncoming

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 16, 2005
Messages
5,623
Reaction score
605
Location
Land of the Freedom-Stealers, because also Home of
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Christians who are pro-choice may simply not believe everything they are told by the preachers.

They have been told that God gave them a brain to use, to analyze their experiences, and to sort out the wheat from the chaff. From inside their own heads they can see that they DO have minds that can analyze experiences, and decide what was good and sensible and what wasn't.

So some Christians are told about the Earth being Created a few thousand years ago, and laugh in the preachers' faces. Ditto with respect to the Flood. And so on. To believe that God directly Created the Universe in six Acts, but planted all that evidence implying Evolution of the Universe, galaxies, stars, planets, Life, and humanity -- that is to believe that God is a liar, see? Not to mention wimpy, if six Acts were needed when a really powerful God could have done it in one. So, better to belive that only one Act was needed, setting off the Big Bang, and that God, being omniscient, KNEW that humanity would be an inevitable consequence of the evolutionary laws built into the resulting Universe. Simple and logical, and reason enough to laugh at the preachers!

Which leads us to the unborn. The preachers might CLAIM that souls come into existence when an ovum is fertilized, but there are logical problems. For example, fertilization is a purely physical process involving lots of molecular biochemstry -- and ANYTHING that can be created by purely physical means can also be destroyed by purely physical means. It is logically impossible for an immortal soul to be created by the fertilization process. Well, then, some preachers know this, and claim that God creates the souls when fertilization happens. Really??? What about the significant percentage of fertilized eggs that just happen not to implant in a womb? What about the eggs that divide and then separate into identical twins? What about the eggs that contain genetic flaws so severe that the fetus dies after a couple of months, and then gets miscarried? Is God so mechanical as to mindlessly create souls for ALL fertilized human eggs, just because fertilization happens to have occurred? Is human biology so unlike that of all those soulless insects out there that its molecular machinery cannot automatically function ("live") without a soul for a while, say until months after fertilization (and after any twinning, and also after the ones with mangled genetics have naturally died and miscarried)? Next, have you ever heard about "sensory deprivation chambers"? A full-fledged soul jammed into an embryo is going to spend months without a sense of touch, smell, hearing, taste, sight, or even proprioception. No nevous system will exist for months, that is! And it is well documented that people spending more than a week in a sensory deprivation chamber can go stark staring mad. What kind of God would do that to an innocent soul, anyway? Finally, does God love a mindless soulless fetus so much more than an ensoulled and minded and Free-Willed adult pregnant woman that, even while omnisciently knowing the woman is likely to seek an abortion, God will create a soul for that fetus anyway, JUST so the woman can then be condemned if the abortion is done?

No, Christians who are pro-choice can simply believe God is smarter and less wimpy and more compassionate than described by the preachers, and therefore for most of a pregnancy, the fetus is not significantly different from any other soulless animal, the killing of which does not qualify as murder.
 
Last edited:

The Truth-Bringer

Active member
Joined
Jul 16, 2005
Messages
260
Reaction score
0
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Pretty easy, All you have to do to become a technical christian is be baptitized, until then you are in until they expell you sometimes, but hey, modern world they do all sorts of things that contradict the scriptures and their views, how can this be viewed different? Also just as a note: Some Old Testament scriptures have justified war as a thing to do the service of god, just Jesus says no to that, so another Contradiction in the Bible, as there are so many between the old and new testaments
 

SouthernDemocrat

Pragmatist
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
22,311
Reaction score
13,542
Location
KC
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
Of course a Christian can be Pro-Choice. Many protestant denominations are officially pro-choice. It is a theological debate just like its a social debate.

The Hebrew Bible tells us that the soul of the flesh is in the blood, but it says that we do not get a soul until we breathe into our nostrils the breath of life. Therefore, there is a theological argument that life does not begin until birth itself and a baby takes its first breath. The argument being is that God knew our physical being in the womb, but did not give us a soul until we were born.

I am not saying whether I agree with that position or not, but rather, I am just saying that a Christian can be Pro-Choice.
 

steen

Lie Detector
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Messages
4,081
Reaction score
0
Location
Upper Midwest
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
jimmyjack said:
Those that support abortion have a poor biology understanding,
Please cease making such false accusations. It is very dishonest of you.
abortion is in fact murder.
And that is a direct falsehood. YOU ARE LYING (Aside from the point that thi shas nothing to do with biology).
 

vergiss

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2005
Messages
2,356
Reaction score
1
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
And aren't Christians supposed to leave judgement of their neighbours to God, rather than themselves? :roll:
 
Top Bottom