How Bad Are Plastics, Really?

[Risky Thicket]

In recent years, the absence of federal regulation has prompted many States and local governments to start banning or restricting "single use" plastic bags that are filling our landfills and helping to create "the Great Garbage Patch" in the Pacific ocean. Efforts to do so in the past have been effectively blocked by the petrochemical industry. "Industry groups stymied New York City’s attempt at a two-cent bottle tax, and in the following decade beat back restrictions in nearby Suffolk County on polystyrene cups and other tossable plastics. Industry trade groups have even lobbied for states to preempt bans on plastic bags." How Bad Are Plastics, Really? (Atlantic)

The change, really, has been the realization that "plastics and climate aren’t separate issues. They are structurally linked problems, and also mutually compounding, with plastics’ facilities spewing climate-relevant emissions and extreme weather further dispersing plastic into the environment." The real world effects of climate change are being felt everywhere and it is becoming harder to deny or lobby away that reality. "Plastics are poised to dominate the 21st century as one of the yet-unchecked drivers of climate change." Indeed, "More plastics have been made over the past two decades than during the second half of the 20th century." For every metric ton of plastic made 1.89 metric tons of greenhouse gasses are produced.

Plastic is a double-whammy: bad being made, bad after use.

A couple of years ago Governor Ducey, from the same mold as Governors Abbot and DeSantis - practitioners of authoritarian overlording while claiming to support small government, independence, and the right of local governments to reflect the will of the people - through an edict that that declare no city or county in Arizona may approve the use of paper to replace plastic bags in retail establishments.

Tempe, if I remember correctly, called bullshit but the governor, deeply in bed the big money and the Chamber of Commerce, threatened the City of Tempe with fines if they did not comply. Other local governments were considering the switch to paper bags but backed off after Ducey's authoritarian edict and threats.

Plastic bags litter the beautiful state of Arizona. The are everywhere all the time. Frequent winds blow plastic bags all across the desert. No one in their right mind would even try to pick plastic bags out of any type of cactus.

 

[Bum]

Plastics have their place; in the medical field they are invaluable...but as disposable single use bags?
They need to go.
I would like to see more research into PVA plastics....a bit more expensive to be sure, but worth the cost IMHO.
As for shopping bags; is it really so hard to keep and reuse fabric bags?

 

[PirateMk1]

In recent years, the absence of federal regulation has prompted many States and local governments to start banning or restricting "single use" plastic bags that are filling our landfills and helping to create "the Great Garbage Patch" in the Pacific ocean. Efforts to do so in the past have been effectively blocked by the petrochemical industry. "Industry groups stymied New York City’s attempt at a two-cent bottle tax, and in the following decade beat back restrictions in nearby Suffolk County on polystyrene cups and other tossable plastics. Industry trade groups have even lobbied for states to preempt bans on plastic bags." How Bad Are Plastics, Really? (Atlantic)

The change, really, has been the realization that "plastics and climate aren’t separate issues. They are structurally linked problems, and also mutually compounding, with plastics’ facilities spewing climate-relevant emissions and extreme weather further dispersing plastic into the environment." The real world effects of climate change are being felt everywhere and it is becoming harder to deny or lobby away that reality. "Plastics are poised to dominate the 21st century as one of the yet-unchecked drivers of climate change." Indeed, "More plastics have been made over the past two decades than during the second half of the 20th century." For every metric ton of plastic made 1.89 metric tons of greenhouse gasses are produced.

Plastic is a double-whammy: bad being made, bad after use.

I remember when paper bags where the menace to society. Paper seems to be making a comeback.

There are two sides to every coin. On the one hand, very few of the plastics in our oceans are coming from the US. Rather, they are mostly coming from relatively poor countries with poor sanitation practices. If people were properly disposing of their plastics, the amount we use in the next 100 years could be disposed of in a relatively small area.

On the other hand, it's pretty disgusting how cavalier people are about using them. The amount of trash you get with one fast food meal is sometimes more volume than the food itself. I can't recount the number of times I've gone to a restaurant where I was served a glass of water I didn't ask for, with a straw I wouldn't have wanted even if I had asked for the water. And what's so difficult about bringing a few reusable grocery bags to the store with you, and using reusable food containers instead of disposable Ziploc bags to store your leftovers?

Thank the health department regulations or other regulations.

 

[dockside]

Plastics are incredibly useful. They're light, tough without being brittle, and if we could just find a way to sort them properly (microchips?) they're eminently recyclable.

Plastic bags on the other hand, are unnecessary, and until we find a way to recycle (or even reliably landfill) them, should always have a sale price to discourage frivolous use.

Until my favorite supermarket started charging for bags, I had no problem with them. Plastic bags are a low effort way to dispose of icky stuff like baby poo and wet paint. It's amazing what a difference having to pay for them makes.

Arrrgh, disposable diapers! I am of an age where disposable diapers were rare. We disposed of baby poo by using cloth diapers, rinsing off the poo in the toilet, and washing the diapers. To me, disposable diapers are a crime against the environment It was more work, but not much, to rinse in the toilet and wash. dry and fold them. I was a working mother but had the time and energy to do that one little extra task.

 

[LostInSeattle]

Arrrgh, disposable diapers! I am of an age where disposable diapers were rare. We disposed of baby poo by using cloth diapers, rinsing off the poo in the toilet, and washing the diapers. To me, disposable diapers are a crime against the environment It was more work, but not much, to rinse in the toilet and wash. dry and fold them. I was a working mother but had the time and energy to do that one little extra task.

My kids are teens and we did the same. Changing and washing diapers never bothered me. But laundry is one household task I don't mind. Cleaning out the fridge on the other hand...

 

[dockside]

In the 1970's when I first moved to Minneapolis, a couple of the lakes in town were clean enough to drink from.
Don't know if that's still the case, but there's plenty of lakes up in Northern Minnesota which are still very clean.

We had a cabin in the 70's and 80's with my sister and her husband on the north shore of Lake Superior and drank the water from Superior (No plumbing but a dry sink). I think it is still drinkable but kids are no longer available to haul it up from the lake (sis still owns it).

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

A couple of years ago Governor Ducey, from the same mold as Governors Abbot and DeSantis - practitioners of authoritarian overlording while claiming to support small government, independence, and the right of local governments to reflect the will of the people - through an edict that that declare no city or county in Arizona may approve the use of paper to replace plastic bags in retail establishments.

Tempe, if I remember correctly, called bullshit but the governor, deeply in bed the big money and the Chamber of Commerce, threatened the City of Tempe with fines if they did not comply. Other local governments were considering the switch to paper bags but backed off after Ducey's authoritarian edict and threats.

Plastic bags litter the beautiful state of Arizona. The are everywhere all the time. Frequent winds blow plastic bags all across the desert. No one in their right mind would even try to pick plastic bags out of any type of cactus.

I've noticed something in the last few years.
In the last six or seven years I've begun to notice the resurgence of people who we used to call "litterbugs"...people who just think nothing of tossing trash out the window wherever they are.

 

[Risky Thicket]

I've noticed something in the last few years.
In the last six or seven years I've begun to notice the resurgence of people who we used to call "litterbugs"...people who just think nothing of tossing trash out the window wherever they are.

Tell it, Checkers! Me too.

I have noticed it as well. Sumbitches just don’t care. It seems to be part of the “if it doesn’t affect me I don’t care attitude” that is becoming America.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Tell it, Checkers! Me too.

I have noticed it as well. Sumbitches just don’t care. It seems to be part of the “if it doesn’t affect me I don’t care attitude” that is becoming America.

Those old anti-litter campaigns were perhaps some of the most effective public service efforts of the modern era.
Time to bring them back...and YES this time maybe find a GENUINE Native American if we decide to go that route.
Iron Eyes Cody did a masterful job but it pisses me off to discover he was faking.

 

[Lovebug]

I've noticed something in the last few years.
In the last six or seven years I've begun to notice the resurgence of people who we used to call "litterbugs"...people who just think nothing of tossing trash out the window wherever they are.

We live in a very beautiful part of the country, but it seems that the "natives" just don't care. Once a week we walk up and down the country road to fill a bag of trash. Tourism abound but put off by all the trash. We are now "doing a study". Why are people their own worst enemy?

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

We live in a very beautiful part of the country, but it seems that the "natives" just don't care. Once a week we walk up and down the country road to fill a bag of trash. Tourism abound but put off by all the trash. We are now "doing a study". Why are people their own worst enemy?

I honestly think we failed this latest generation by dropping the ball on stuff like littering.
Our OWN two kids are respectful of the environment but they notice a few peers who are decidedly apathetic and who don't seem to care at all.