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Nearly all of this claim is based on half truths. Pedarasty was supposed to be mentorship and when it was sexual it was condemned as child rape which it was. (Oddly enough modern homosexual activists will insist boy rape isn’t really gay, but also defend their practice by pointing to pedarasty) many Greek city states criminalized sodomy and Plato wrote that such a practice should be universally illegal. In many Greek cities homosexuals were not allowed citizenship. Most claims of Greek homosexuality were invented by modern homosexual activists and most are quite dumb claims when looked at. The claims about Sappho are similarly weak. She was accused contemporaneously of being a slut and not a homosexual, and very little of her original works survive. The idea she was a “lesbian” arises many centuries after her death.Homosexuality in ancient Greece
In classical antiquity, writers such as Herodotus,[1] Plato,[2] Xenophon,[3] Athenaeus[4] and many others explored aspects of homosexuality in Greek society. The most widespread and socially significant form of same-sex sexual relations in ancient Greece amongst elite circles was between adult men and pubescent or adolescent boys, known as pederasty (marriages in Ancient Greece between men and women were also age structured, with men in their thirties commonly taking wives in their early teens).[5] Nevertheless, homosexuality and its practices were still wide-spread as certain city-states allowed it while others were ambiguous or prohibited it.[6] Though sexual relationships between adult men did exist, it is possible at least one member of each of these relationships flouted social conventions by assuming a passive sexual role according to Kenneth Dover, though this has been questioned by recent scholars. It is unclear how such relations between same-sex partners were regarded in the general society, especially for women, but examples do exist as far back as the time of Sappho.[7]
The ancient Greeks did not conceive of sexual orientation as a social identifier as modern Western societies have done. Greek society did not distinguish sexual desire or behavior by the gender of the participants, but rather by the role that each participant played in the sex act, that of active penetrator or passive penetrated
Oops!
Methinks someone spoke out of turn
I never said Romans "turned' Vestial virgins into nuns, I intoned that Nuns replaced the role of ancient Rome.
It seems Ancient Greece was a little ahead of us way back when!
I suggest you read more.
There is no primary source evidence showing the “sacred band of Thebes” even existed, the one literary source alluding to it never mentions homosexual behavior and was written hundreds of years laterOkay, this is even dumber than your other post. You're on a roll.
The Sacred Band of Thebes is laughing at you from the grave.
I can trust you or I can trust Xenophon.There is no primary source evidence showing the “sacred band of Thebes” even existed, the one literary source alluding to it never mentions homosexual behavior and was written hundreds of years later
Nearly all of this claim is based on half truths. Pedarasty was supposed to be mentorship and when it was sexual it was condemned as child rape which it was. (Oddly enough modern homosexual activists will insist boy rape isn’t really gay, but also defend their practice by pointing to pedarasty) many Greek city states criminalized sodomy and Plato wrote that such a practice should be universally illegal. In many Greek cities homosexuals were not allowed citizenship. Most claims of Greek homosexuality were invented by modern homosexual activists and most are quite dumb claims when looked at. The claims about Sappho are similarly weak. She was accused contemporaneously of being a slut and not a homosexual, and very little of her original works survive. The idea she was a “lesbian” arises many centuries after her death.
Also the three quotes cited to Xenophon, Plato and Herodutus in your Wikipedia cite do not actually reference homosexual behavior, that is purely inference and Weak ones at that.
You seem to just believe claims of modern gay activists and academics uncritically without looking at the actual works and writings of Greeks, who regarded homosexuality as a disease and non-virtuous practice
They will? Prove it.(Oddly enough modern homosexual activists will insist boy rape isn’t really gay, but also defend their practice by pointing to pedarasty)
Xenophon doesn’t reference the “sacred band” by name. The idea they were homosexual comes from Plutarch who wrote 300 years later and described them as “lovers bonded by mutual commitment” but this does not mean they were sodomites, Plutarch never describes this and neither does XenophonI can trust you or I can trust Xenophon.
GUESS WHICH ONE I'M PICKING, EMN?
What do you assume they meant?Xenophon doesn’t reference the “sacred band” by name. The idea they were homosexual comes from Plutarch who wrote 300 years later and described them as “lovers bonded by mutual commitment” but this does not mean they were sodomites, Plutarch never describes this and neither does Xenophon
Okay, this is even dumber than your other post. You're on a roll.
The Sacred Band of Thebes is laughing at you from the grave.
I just assume he's making shit up to suit his purposes.You just have to love "...neearly all the claims are half truths"
What are the other half?
That men who go to battle together have a bond driven by service in combat? Like in every military ever to exist?What do you assume they meant?
I just assume he's making shit up to suit his purposes.
I never called my squaddies my lovers.That men who go to battle together have a bond driven by service in combat? Like in every military ever to exist?
You also don’t speak English as translated from classical Greek.I never called my squaddies my lovers.
You're reaching here, dude. None of the other Greek hoplite units referred to "lovers".You also don’t speak English as translated from classical Greek.
The Greeks didn’t speak English, so they wouldn’t call their comrades “squaddies” either.
Imagine if hundreds of years from now archeologists are reading your posts and declare you must be a guy really into receiving anal because they translate “squaddie” as “homosexual ”.
Obviously you’re deciding to accept a term that is translated from a different language into “lover” to mean being homosexual without even bothering to understand cultural context or the original language
Thus the "experts" who claim climate change is a hoax and dueling "experts" in criminal trials.The following is a bit long but makes for an interesting analysis of something called "Gibson's law."
I love the parts I highlighted in red, so apropos on debate forums.
No, I said Greece wasn’t “gay”.BULLSHIT!!!!!
First you claimed it never happened
Yes, you read cherry picked texts incorrectly then fill in your desire that platonic relationships be construed as “gay”now you say its "half true",
To the extent it makes false claims it is wrongand claim Wiki is wrong!!!!!!
Not even a contest. You lose!
Greeks never referred to anyone as “lovers” because that word is from language they didn’t speak. The term lover is a translation from various forms of Eros, often simplistically translated as “lover” or “love” but in fact refers to “passion” or “desire” (and not always in a sexual sense. Eros is used to refer to Food, and not in the American pie sense, or desire for knowledge)You're reaching here, dude. None of the other Greek hoplite units referred to "lovers".
Your wrong, and that's all there is to it.
Who mentioned boys? You did. I mentioned the Sacred Banders, who were grown men, the core of Thebes' army. Why bring up boys in that context, EMN?Greeks never referred to anyone as “lovers” because that word is from language they didn’t speak. The term lover is a translation from various forms of Eros, often simplistically translated as “lover” or “love” but in fact refers to “passion” or “desire” (and not always in a sexual sense. Eros is used to refer to Food, and not in the American pie sense, or desire for knowledge)
In fact this term is used in Sparta to describe a form of Pedarasty for training soldiers, and also Spartans had laws punishing gay sex by death. So clearly they would not sanction sexual Pedarasty while the behavior of anal sex was a capital offense
Really this entire argument is just gross. The argument that left is seem to make about ancient Greece and homosexuality, is that the instances of grooming and sexual abuse the boys by older men justifies reforming sexual mores in Christian society.
It’s really a gross argument when you think about it
Or that you're deliberately misrepresenting things to avoid a truth you don't want to deal with.And most of the time, the argument is based off of a misunderstanding of Greek society, the Greek language, and very fanciful interpretations of writings The argument isn’t even accurate to begin with.
Yet libs trusted the "experts" , and still do, where Covid was concerned. They were wrong all along.The following is a bit long but makes for an interesting analysis of something called "Gibson's law."
I love the parts I highlighted in red, so apropos on debate forums.
WRONGXenophon doesn’t reference the “sacred band” by name.
Xenophon, another Athenian, is the only contemporary who grudgingly notes some Theban accomplishments, and even then, never in-depth and with numerous omissions. His only mentions of Pelopidas and Epaminondas by name, for example, were very brief and shed no light on their previous accomplishments.[1] Indeed, the historians Bruce LaForse and John Buckler have noted that the character and accomplishments of Epaminondas were so unassailable that there is no known hostile account of him in ancient sources. The most unfriendly writers like Xenophon and Isocrates could do was omit his accomplishments in their work altogether.[76]
Nope.Yet libs trusted the "experts" , and still do, where Covid was concerned. They were wrong all along.
Oh brother: I guess you totally "missed" what the article had to say. That is an ignorant reply that proves you read only the headline and not the article.Yet libs trusted the "experts" , and still do, where Covid was concerned. They were wrong all along.
Maybe this meme will help edumacate you:Let’s say you meet an expert in some area, and they present a fact or argument that you simply cannot tolerate. Fuming, but unable to articulate your counterargument, you go home to Google the expert’s position. To your great annoyance, the entire first page of search results validate the expert. You still hunt, determined to be right. Nestled in the forgotten abyss of Google’s page 4, you find Dr. Clutching Straws. You drag out Dr. Straws whenever you can.
Says who? You know nothing about the sacred band except what modern homosexuals misrepresent about Plutarch. The type of relationship Plutarch describes is one resembling Athenian Pederasty. With a pair of “lovers” being an erastes and eremenos.Who mentioned boys? You did. I mentioned the Sacred Banders, who were grown men,
the core of Thebes' army. Why bring up boys in that context, EMN?
Or that you're deliberately misrepresenting things to avoid a truth you don't want to deal with.
Why don’t you read the sources which you clearly haven’t read and use them to make your own argument?WRONG
View attachment 67439404
And before you get all ****ed up about wikipedia, check their embedded sources at the bottom of each article.
In other words, you have nothing and have been beaten.Why don’t you read the sources which you clearly haven’t read and use them to make your own argument?
I don’t think you’ve read much primary sourcing at all and what you have read you are misinterpreting to support your political beliefs
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