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House votes to restrict Confederate flag in national cemeteries[W:707]

TheDemSocialist

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The House approved a Democratic proposal on Thursday to limit the display of the Confederate flag in national cemeteries. A majority of Republicans rejected Rep. Jared Huffman’s (D-Calif.) amendment to a spending bill for the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) and military construction projects in the 265-159 vote. A total of 158 Republicans opposed it, while 84 Republicans joined all but one Democrat in support.
Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) expressed support for allowing the vote despite opposition from a majority of his GOP conference.

Shortly after midnight on Thursday, Huffman offered his amendment to prohibit the large-scale display of the Confederate flag in cemeteries run by the VA, such as flying the banner over mass graves. It would, however, still allow families to place small Confederate flags on individual graves on Memorial Day and Confederate Memorial Day.

No one spoke in opposition to Huffman’s amendment during floor debate.

Read more @: House votes to restrict Confederate flag in national cemeteries

Well this happened. Can still place small flags at individual graves on Memorial day and Confederates Memorial Day but if passes the Senate the bill would block large Confederate flags from flying at all on VA cemeteries.
 

Skeptic Bob

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Even if you remove slavery and racism from the equation this makes perfect sense. The Confederacy was at war with the United States. Why should the United States government fly their flag in its land?
 

Lord of Planar

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Lord of Planar

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Even if you remove slavery and racism from the equation this makes perfect sense. The Confederacy was at war with the United States. Why should the United States government fly their flag in its land?

They are a martyr for the 10th amendment. Are you denying that even though much of the confederacy's ideals were absolutely wrong, that the we effectively lost 10th amendment right when the north won the war?

I for one, am rather angry about how the federal government disregards the 10th amendment, and how so many people want the feds to violate it.
 

Glen Contrarian

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Glen Contrarian

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More shredding of the first amendment...

The bill strictly allowed private citizens to place individual confederate flags on individual graves - but large-scale displays of a Confederate flag over those cemeteries, over what is by definition federal land paid for and maintained by our tax dollars, is now prohibited as it should be.

In other words, if you wanna go fly that symbol of racism and slavery - as I once did - you've got every right to do so...but the federal government should not be involved in - much less encourage - large-scale displays of such. Your freedom of speech is not at all threatened - the bill only stops a very inappropriate use of our tax dollars.

And one more thing - those Confederate soldiers were NOT Americans. They had sworn allegiance to the Confederacy and had joined in the Confederacy's war against the United States. They were by definition traitors. While we should pity them, and even grieve for the great loss of life they suffered for their epically bad choice, there is precisely ZERO reason for any patriotic American to venerate - much less honor - the Confederacy.
 

Glen Contrarian

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They are a martyr for the 10th amendment. Are you denying that even though much of the confederacy's ideals were absolutely wrong, that the we effectively lost 10th amendment right when the north won the war?

I for one, am rather angry about how the federal government disregards the 10th amendment, and how so many people want the feds to violate it.

Yeah, how DARE the federal government tell states that they have to give up their slaves, huh?

Good grief. And the conservatives wonder why it is that they've lost the minority vote. "Oh, the minorities don't like us because we don't give them free stuff!" is what so many conservatives claim...but they never grasp that it's claptrap like pointing at "state's rights" as an excuse to allow and perpetuate racism that's caused them to lose the minority vote.
 

Lord of Planar

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I see that you are confused about what is freedom of speech...and what is an inappropriate use of our tax dollars.

I'm not confused at all. It's just part of the normal silencing of people who need to be silenced.

Is someone taking a large confederate flag to a federal cemetery costing us tax dollars? Please explain how it is. And, what is deemed as large?

Democrats claim they are for freedom of speech. That is until, they find something to be offended by.

Do you support such hypocrisy?
 

TheDemSocialist

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They are a martyr for the 10th amendment. Are you denying that even though much of the confederacy's ideals were absolutely wrong, that the we effectively lost 10th amendment right when the north won the war?

I for one, am rather angry about how the federal government disregards the 10th amendment, and how so many people want the feds to violate it.

Please explain how we "lost the 10th amendment when the north won the war"...
 

Lord of Planar

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Yeah, how DARE the federal government tell states that they have to give up their slaves, huh?

The civil war didn't start because of slavery. It started because of 10th amendment issues outside of slavery.
 

TheDemSocialist

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More shredding of the first amendment...

This is not "shredding" anyones first amendment rights. Its like saying since the Federal Government is not flying a Nazi flag then someones first amendment rights are being "shredded". If anything its simply not using tax dollars to fly a flag of a movement who was at war with the Federal Government.
 

MrT

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They are a martyr for the 10th amendment. Are you denying that even though much of the confederacy's ideals were absolutely wrong, that the we effectively lost 10th amendment right when the north won the war?

I for one, am rather angry about how the federal government disregards the 10th amendment, and how so many people want the feds to violate it.

I don't think you should.

The 10th amendment is one of the most poorly worded and weakest amendments specifically because it is so short sighted. There are thousands of actions and steps that the Federal Government should take, like air traffic, internet, interstate commerce, etc., but would not be able to do if the 10th amendment were interpreted strictly.
 

joG

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Lord of Planar

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Apparently, the text of the Huffman amendment is not available for public consumption, but the title doesn't specify the confederate flag. I will assume it is part of many items specified the federal can not foot the bill for.

Roll cal 223, and amendment to HR 4974:

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2016/roll223.xml
 

Glen Contrarian

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I'm not confused at all. It's just part of the normal silencing of people who need to be silenced.

Is someone taking a large confederate flag to a federal cemetery costing us tax dollars? Please explain how it is. And, what is deemed as large?

Democrats claim they are for freedom of speech. That is until, they find something to be offended by.

Do you support such hypocrisy?

Time was that there were large displays that would remain for days or weeks - I remember them when I lived in Vicksburg, MS when I lived there. The park service (federally funded, mind you) would put up these large displays to "honor" the Confederates who'd died in the siege at Vicksburg...which town did not celebrate Independence Day for nearly 100 years after the end of the Civil War.

There is zero justification for even one federal dollar to go to pay for erecting, maintaining, or - in the case of "privately-funded" large displays - protecting or cleaning up after large displays. If you want to go honor the memory of people who died to protect slavery, you go ahead - but do it on your own time, on your own property. Besides, if you'll think about it, if you've got a "right" to erect a "large display" honoring Confederates on federal property...then I have every bit as much of a right to tear that display down.
 

Lord of Planar

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I don't think you should.

The 10th amendment is one of the most poorly worded and weakest amendments specifically because it is so short sighted. There are thousands of actions and steps that the Federal Government should take, like air traffic, internet, interstate commerce, etc., but would not be able to do if the 10th amendment were interpreted strictly.
I see you would fail a constitutional class. The 10th amendment says items not specified in the constitution should be left to lower level government. The things you listed are clearly federal responsibilities, not state or local.
 

Lord of Planar

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Time was that there were large displays that would remain for days or weeks - I remember them when I lived in Vicksburg, MS when I lived there. The park service (federally funded, mind you) would put up these large displays to "honor" the Confederates who'd died in the siege at Vicksburg...which town did not celebrate Independence Day for nearly 100 years after the end of the Civil War.

There is zero justification for even one federal dollar to go to pay for erecting, maintaining, or - in the case of "privately-funded" large displays - protecting or cleaning up after large displays. If you want to go honor the memory of people who died to protect slavery, you go ahead - but do it on your own time, on your own property. Besides, if you'll think about it, if you've got a "right" to erect a "large display" honoring Confederates on federal property...then I have every bit as much of a right to tear that display down.

And what I glean of the things I read so far, it only takes away the funding for section 8(d)(2) of the Department of Veterans Affairs National Cemetery Administration Directive 3220.

I have not yet found the wording to that.
 

joG

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Even if you remove slavery and racism from the equation this makes perfect sense. The Confederacy was at war with the United States. Why should the United States government fly their flag in its land?

If citizens think that displaying a historical flag expresses, what they want to state politically? It seems worth fighting to make sure they can.
 

TheDemSocialist

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That sounds an infringement of Constitutional rights.

Where in the Constiuttion does it say that the Federal Government must fly the Confederate flag at federally ran cemeteries?
 

Lord of Planar

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Where in the Constiuttion does it say that the Federal Government must fly the Confederate flag at federally ran cemeteries?

LOL...

What craziness it is for people to think the constitution is a "permission" document for the people.

Stop for a moment and considered how insane your words are.

I will wait for your revised remarks and allow you to redeem yourself.
 

TheGoverness

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The civil war didn't start because of slavery. It started because of 10th amendment issues outside of slavery.
Well, there was a variety of issues and factors that caused the American Civil War, all of which revolved around the issue of slavery.
 
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