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House rejects farm bill, 195-234

TheDemSocialist

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In a blow to House GOP leaders, the House on Thursday rejected a five-year farm bill. Members voted down the $940 billion bill in a 195-234 vote that only won 24 Democratic votes. Most Democrats voted against the bill because it cut food stamp programs by more than $20 billion.
Many Republicans also voted no, but for a different reason. They said it was too expensive a bill to pass when the country has $17 trillion in debt.
In the final vote, 62 Republicans opposed the bill, and with the Democratic defections, that was enough to send it to defeat.


Read more: House rejects farm bill, 195-234 - The Hill's Floor Action
:applaud Good! Cutting food assistance to the needy is not the way to go! Austerity does not work! I applaud this being defeated!
 

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AlabamaPaul

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You do realize what happens if they don't pass something don't you? $6-$8/gallon milk will punish poor people even more.

I haven't followed this issue too closely, but if that is what the price should actually be, then so be it...
 

TheDemSocialist

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You do realize what happens if they don't pass something don't you? $6-$8/gallon milk will punish poor people even more.

Id rather have that for a short amount of time while congress goes back to the drawing board rather than have a bill pass the lasts 'x' amount of time. Should not pass a farm bill that puts the rich over the middle and working class and a bill that punishes struggling Americans. That is just not fair.
 

ChuckBerry

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[W]hen we see the expansion of the dependency class in America

Ugh. Quotes like this make me lose faith in humanity.
 

blaxshep

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Id rather have that for a short amount of time while congress goes back to the drawing board rather than have a bill pass the lasts 'x' amount of time. Should not pass a farm bill that puts the rich over the middle and working class and a bill that punishes struggling Americans. That is just not fair.

What is not fair is spending more than your revenue. I will applaud any and all cuts until we get a handle on our spending problem.

To DemSocialist's point however I would rather see cuts in government than in assistance if it is really necessary.
 

Henrin

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You do realize what happens if they don't pass something don't you? $6-$8/gallon milk will punish poor people even more.

If the price of milk is unaffordable it should lose business. Why is that a problem?
 
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Fisher

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I haven't followed this issue too closely, but if that is what the price should actually be, then so be it...


It isn't what the price is supposed to be--it is what the price will become due to shortages. The price we pay now is an inflated price. If something is not passed, we revert to a law from the 40's that requires all milk to be sold to and bought from the government but we have no mechanism in place to do that anymore.
 

Fisher

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If the price of milk is unaffordable it should lose business. Why is that a problem?

Because you won't be able to get the milk to begin with. There is no structure in place to revert to to distribute the milk as would happen if the program is not extended.
 

AlabamaPaul

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Because you won't be able to get the milk to begin with. There is no structure in place to revert to to distribute the milk as would happen if the program is not extended.

BS, let the marketplace work its magic...
 

Fisher

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BS, let the marketplace work its magic...

You clearly do not seem to understand how the milk market subsidy program is set up. The marketplace will not "work its magic" because the farm bill is amnesty if you will from a more draconian system that has been established in law in the 1940's but is not in practice today. It would be illegal to sell unprocessed milk to anybody other than the government.
 

Henrin

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Id rather have that for a short amount of time while congress goes back to the drawing board rather than have a bill pass the lasts 'x' amount of time. Should not pass a farm bill that puts the rich over the middle and working class and a bill that punishes struggling Americans. That is just not fair.

Fairs never have bacon, but are known to have pigs. I will never understand it.
 

Henrin

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Because you won't be able to get the milk to begin with. There is no structure in place to revert to to distribute the milk as would happen if the program is not extended.

So? If the product in question is too expensive on the market if left to it's own devices there is no argument to be made it should be permitted to survive.
 

blaxshep

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It isn't what the price is supposed to be--it is what the price will become due to shortages. The price we pay now is an inflated price. If something is not passed, we revert to a law from the 40's that requires all milk to be sold to and bought from the government but we have no mechanism in place to do that anymore.

Which is why the government should stay out of the market.
 

Fisher

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Which is why the government should stay out of the market.

Perhaps, but they would also have to repeal the legislation from the 1940's to keep it from biting consumers in the arse.
 

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I wish they would cut farm subsidies completely so these free loading farmers could see what they are really worth
 

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What is not fair is spending more than your revenue. I will applaud any and all cuts until we get a handle on our spending problem.

To DemSocialist's point however I would rather see cuts in government than in assistance if it is really necessary.

Actually I don't view food stamps or farm subsidies as the role of government in the first place. The took care of farm bill. Now on to the food stamps.
 

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Read more: House rejects farm bill, 195-234 - The Hill's Floor Action
:applaud Good! Cutting food assistance to the needy is not the way to go! Austerity does not work! I applaud this being defeated! [/FONT][/COLOR]

Actually, if I'm not mistaken, the majority of those on the Republican side who voted against the bill oppose farm subsidies in principle and most of them also wanted deeper cuts in food stamps. This actually is a victory for austerity, if it stands.
 

Drake McHugh

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The bill also still keeps the sugar program,not to mention not doing enough on direct payments. Boehner is a fool. Hopefully,this gives him pause on immigration. If he could not pass a freaking farm bill,where most people don't give a crap,how is he going to push a "comprehensive immigration reform"bill?
 

azgreg

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OK, this is not my area (along with others). What happens if our congress critters never fix this? What happens if we treat farmers like other businesses?
 

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OK, this is not my area (along with others). What happens if our congress critters never fix this? What happens if we treat farmers like other businesses?

Then we'd get naturally ripened fruits and vegies instead of nitrogen ripened fruits and vegies. Mexico and South America will have to go pound sand though, and some won't like that calling America a protectionist country, but in reality all it really means is that we're done subsidizing other nations produce!


Tim-
 

notquiteright

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Then we'd get naturally ripened fruits and vegies instead of nitrogen ripened fruits and vegies. Mexico and South America will have to go pound sand though, and some won't like that calling America a protectionist country, but in reality all it really means is that we're done subsidizing other nations produce! Tim-

As someone who is actually in the farm program let me correct a few myths. First fruits and vegetables are NOT in the subsidy program. Staple crops are.

The milk program is outdated, back in the day milk was a key source of protein for children but today it is well known many african and asian americans lack the enzyme to digest milk. Today many substitutes are far healthier than milk/dairy products. Milk can be dropped without shattering the farming economy and there have been several large buy-outs attempting to reduce the dairies under subsidy. I can see a phase-out of the dairy program. many Americans are turning away from a dairy heavy diet because a more sedentary lifestyle increases heart health problems.

Farm subsidies go to staple crops- corn 10B in 2005 to 2.7B in 2012, wheat 3.9B in 1999 to 1.1B in 2012, soybeans 4.6B in 2001 to 1.4B in 2012 , cotton 3B in 2005 to 510M in 2012, sugar which has the US price at twice the world price, peanuts- which was at 1B in 2002 to 51M in 2012... umm I'm sure there are a few more. grasslands and pork/chicken factories are not.

What the farm programs do is ensure a certain number of acres are under cultivation for the basics. The USDA routinely monitors what acres are growing what staple...or not for that matter. before the various programs the rise and fall of production was a strain on the economy as speculative farming could collapse the market. I does me no good to have a bumper crop and spent the money to grow it if it is worth pennies at the elevator. outside investors could buy up large tracts of foreclosed land as their livelihood didn't rely on the farm income. The money doled out does go to huge farms that don't 'need' the money but then again I don't 'need' it either. what it does is bribe the growers into maintaining a good acreage in basic crops.

Food Stamps needs to be moved, putting it into the USDA is a dodge. But it isn't the villain many 'conservatives' think it is. It doesn't keep people in poverty, the economy and job market does that. Less than 20% of SNAP folks are also TANF recipients. 48% have jobs. The average SNAP allotment for a family of three is $419 a month or just over a week's pay at minimum wage. So it doesn't take much to leave SNAP behind if pay and or 'good' jobs increase.

Program reform in the farm program I get, but the republican controlled house cut SNAP about 4 times as much as the senate 4.5B.
 

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As someone who is actually in the farm program let me correct a few myths. First fruits and vegetables are NOT in the subsidy program. Staple crops are.

The milk program is outdated, back in the day milk was a key source of protein for children but today it is well known many african and asian americans lack the enzyme to digest milk. Today many substitutes are far healthier than milk/dairy products. Milk can be dropped without shattering the farming economy and there have been several large buy-outs attempting to reduce the dairies under subsidy. I can see a phase-out of the dairy program. many Americans are turning away from a dairy heavy diet because a more sedentary lifestyle increases heart health problems.

Actually,one of the things that has hurt the dairy industry is feed costs. Especially hard for western producers in California,which is losing dairies at a very high rate. This is largely due to ethanol. Many farmers even here are leaving the industry(California may lead in dairy production,but Wisconsin has MANY more dairy farms and infrastructure). Anyways,they are leaving milking cows for raising crops. Dairy farming when done without a parlor and help is backbreaking and also time consuming(you have to milk twice a day,larger dairies do it 3).
 

notquiteright

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Actually,one of the things that has hurt the dairy industry is feed costs. Especially hard for western producers in California,which is losing dairies at a very high rate. This is largely due to ethanol. Many farmers even here are leaving the industry(California may lead in dairy production,but Wisconsin has MANY more dairy farms and infrastructure). Anyways,they are leaving milking cows for raising crops. Dairy farming when done without a parlor and help is backbreaking and also time consuming(you have to milk twice a day,larger dairies do it 3).

I am a beef man, not a dairy man so I had to go look up a few things. First the concentration of dairies is in the West and while the total number of dairies has shrunk the number of cows per herd has dramatically increased. the traditional milk belt of the midwest and Pa, NY has many more but much smaller dairies.

I would hazard many factors figure into why the smaller dairies are closing down. First is reliable, cheap labor. Many older/smaller dairies of the midwest/PA/NY regions relied on family to do the labor. Families are no longer stairstepped out to provide a constant source of labor. A local dairy in Elgin, OK ceased production due to a lack of kids.

Price supports for dairies are trending downward outside the farm bill. Much of our 'other than fluid milk' products rely on export. The International trade agreements curb the amount of support the government can give in exports. Many traditional importers of US dry/butter product have started domestic production, Russia and the Former Iron Curtain nations come to mind. Russia used to import large amounts of our butter, not so much anymore.

feed costs in California have far more to do with rain than ethanol. Strong multi-year droughts have hurt the production of not only corn but the #1 feed in dairies- silage. Bottomline to feed dairy cows at a level to obtain profitable returns irrigation of crops is a must. In California competition for water with urban centers and the other western states is growing fiercer. Iowa has had two bad years due to drought. Water for crop production is a nasty debate here in Texoma as we have had a few rough drought years as well. (having record heat ain't helping us much either)

Americans have been trending downward or flat in their consumption of dairy products.

So all in all I'd say ethanol MAY be a factor but damn sure not THE factor. it is incredibly demanding work,(is why I have beef cattle ;) the export programs are losing funding, the smaller dairies leaving as huge dairies increase along with the use of controversial hormones pick up the slack. Water shortages for production of silage and grain crops- don't forget soybeans are a key feed ingredient- and a downward trend in domestic consumption all figure into the dairy industry.
 
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