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House OKs plan to withdraw US troops

danarhea

danarhea

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Here we go again, folks. The Democrats just voted for a troop pullout again. This will go to the Senate, where it will stall. After that, Democrats will whine about those nasty Republicans who want to keep the war going, in order to score political points. Deja vu? You bet your a$$, and for the umpteenth time.

If the Democrats are really sincere (do they know what that word means?), they will put their butts on the line, and cut off funds for the war. That CANNOT be vetoed. Congress controls the purse.

Say what you want about Bush (and I say plenty - LOL), but I can say one more thing about him, he has more political guts in his little finger than the cowardly jellyfish known as Democrats have in their entire bodies. From on, until such time as the Dems finally decide to either sh!t or get off the pot, I am going to refer to them in this forum as the Jellycrats.

Jellycrats - Meet your new mascot:
 
I am so feed up with our politicians regardless of there party. Here is the problem with Iraq.

Its a catch 22 situation.

If we stay our troops die for a people who have no desire to get beyond there tribal differences. And who have no desire to be free. They have no compression of freedom. The rest of the world hates us and the mujahedin (terrorist) keep coming into country to fight there holy war.

If we leave we will most certainly see the mideast erupt into a kaos. The Turks will invade from the north to stop the Kurds from forming an independent state. Iran and Syria will invade to support the Shiite majority. And the Saudis will most likely back the Sunnis.

Invading Iraq was a monumental mistake. Now what can we do? We should be in Waziristan hunting down Taliban and al-Qaeda. Thats another problem, Pakistan, What if Musharraf is assinated and radicals take over. Then we have a terrorist nation with nukes.

The only thing worse than democrats and republicans is tribes. Tribes that will always hate each other.
 

You hit the nail on the head. The democrats will never cut off funding because they don't want to. They're using this as a ploy to gain political points. All they have to do is say they're against the war while continuing to actually support it.
 
SgtRock said:
The Turks will invade from the north to stop the Kurds from forming an independent state.
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I doubt it. The Turks will huff and puff, but they really can't do anything. They can cross the border a few times to root out terrorists, but Turkey doesn't have the stomach for a long-term occupation. What are they going to do once they're in Kurdistan? Stay there forever? Besides, an invasion would be the final nail in the coffin for any EU ambitions Turkey may have.

SgtRock said:
Iran and Syria will invade to support the Shiite majority.
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Syria has a majority Sunni population that it doesn't want to piss off, and its rulers aren't particularly religious. My guess is that Syria would mostly stay out of Iraq, or provided very minor support for Iran.

SgtRock said:
And the Saudis will most likely back the Sunnis.
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You're probably right about Saudi Arabia and Iran duking it out (either directly, or by proxy). But there's really no way to avoid this. We can't stay forever, and as soon as we leave, that's going to happen.

On the positive side, Iran won't dominate the Iraqi Shiites forever. They might dominate them for a few years while Iran is strong and Iraq is weak, but eventually the Iraqi Shiites will break from Iran.


It seems to me that invading Pakistan makes Musharraf's assassination/overthrow much more likely. Now isn't the time to rock the boat in Pakistan. Musharraf is at his weakest moment since taking power.
 

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Are you Cons EVER going to start worrying about our Troop dying daily???
NEVER??? I thought not!
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You are sticking up for a dead horse! NO ONE wants OR believes Bush any more except Bushs loyal 'shoe shinners'.
BTW: Wally World has shoe polish made in China that sells cheaper that the American Made shoe polish. Should save ya a few cents.
 

I'm not really sure what you want them to do. If they don't have the votes to end debate, it doesn't matter if Bush can veto it.
 
Its so sad this has become a political game with peoples lives.
 
The thread title should be changed to "House OK's plan to hand al Qaeda a victory."
 
There is no way that the House can cut off funding for the war. The Republicans would use it against them claiming that Democrats don't support the troops.

I'm a Republican but the way I see it, the Democrats have no choice but to vote for a pull out and hope to get enough votes that Bush can't veto it.

As the election gets close, more and more Republicans are going to get nervous enough to jump over to the other side and vote with the Dems to end it. Fear of losing all control will drive them to do so.

Over 70% of American people say they have had enough of Iraq and want out. Our politicans can't ignore this and still hope to hold office. They are supposed to represent the American people - not ignore us. We are a Democracy after all.
 


Its amazing how many people still believe in the horse and pony show of congress. Its just for self interest, politicians cares less on who they put in the meat grinder, otherwise they themselves whould be in the war and not in their safe havens and their security detail. .. About cutting funding. hahaha.. must be they needed a raise again.....for a job well done... not. Wake up and look at how much money from taxes is extorted yearly..... The show in washington is just that a show..... Its target audience people who are unaware of what's happening in the real world and not what politicians or educators in schools to tell you how it is. Find out for yourself......

This is why we have the scenario for so many cycles and the end result is the same.....Its a sense of fake improvement...and amazingly lots of people still believe in this process. Its objective to let people who are democrats and republicans fight and to lose focus on the real problem. The process has been broken for decades and tons of tax money has been squandered (as usual). No one wants to fix it since, they all are getting rich from it.
 
Stinger said:
The thread title should be changed to "House OK's plan to hand al Qaeda a victory."
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Haven't you been reading the news in the last few days? Al Qaeda are stronger now than before 9/11. All we have done is make them more popular and stronger. The war in Iraq has not, and will not, stamp out terrorism in the US. Quit scaremongering to keep us in Iraq.
 

So you think they will just go away if we hand them victory in Iraq?

BTW it was to be expected that they would ramp up their efforts in response to our surge and in most wars the largest armies are fielded in the end.
 
Stinger said:
So you think they will just go away if we hand them victory in Iraq?

BTW it was to be expected that they would ramp up their efforts in response to our surge and in most wars the largest armies are fielded in the end.
Click to expand...

Of course they won't go away if we leave Iraq. A better question is are Al Qaeda going to go away if we stay in Iraq? I think the fact that they are stronger than ever answers that one.
 
Happy Days said:
Of course they won't go away if we leave Iraq. A better question is are Al Qaeda going to go away if we stay in Iraq? I think the fact that they are stronger than ever answers that one.
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Most armies field their largest forces in the end. How does handing Iraq to them help us defeat them. And yes prevailing in Iraq will deny them their major area of operation and a friendly country to operate out. Explain to me the strategy of handing it over to them.

Want to get their numbers down, convince the people joining it is a lost cause, get rid of the Democrats and present a united front.
 


There is a train of thought that suggests the war in Iraq has helped recruit extremists who hate America. But if you believe that Al Qaeda is on its last legs fielding its largest forces then go right ahead and believe that.

The fact that doctors tried to blow up Britain a few weeks ago should tell you that no matter how many Al Qaeda operatives are fighting in Iraq they can still find a handful to go operate elsewhere and kill innocent people. That's why I have always thought that the "we're keeping them busy in Iraq so they don't come here" mentality was severely flawed.
 
Jellycrats
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:monkey

They have coward since the man took office in 2001. I'd be damn if my integrity would be worth a few more years in office.

The few who stood up to Bush early were abandoned and feed to the Rove lying slander machine. So I have no love for the Dems.
 
No connection between Iraq and Al Qaeda was found before America went into Iraq. Also, reports still suggest that al-Zarqawi and Bin-Ladens interests were fairly separate when it comes to Iraq, whilst they do have the same 'stop the Americans' mentality. So, if anything, American presence created the Al Qaeda presence.

As for the news piece, it's not going to happen, as others have said. Democrats push for it to end, house votes it OK, but the President will whine and complain and ultimately squash any plans of withdrawal.

Stinger said:
The thread title should be changed to "House OK's plan to hand al Qaeda a victory."
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Don't be juvenile. I was made to believe that this site was full of people who DEBATE, not make childish remarks than don't do anything for the debate.
 
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Happy Days said:
Over 70% of American people say they have had enough of Iraq and want out. Our politicans can't ignore this and still hope to hold office. They are supposed to represent the American people - not ignore us. We are a Democracy after all.
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The problem in american voters is, they are easily swayed by politicians who gives a temporary relief close to the election. Voters will soon forget the war once they get more money in their pockets.....Sad but true...
 
politic_analyst said:
The problem in american voters is, they are easily swayed by politicians who gives a temporary relief close to the election. Voters will soon forget the war once they get more money in their pockets.....Sad but true...
Click to expand...


I don't know, the economy is vibrant just now and yet Bush is the most unpopular President ever. If all we cared about was money then surely he'd be loved and adored?
 
Stinger said:
So you think they will just go away if we hand them victory in Iraq?

BTW it was to be expected that they would ramp up their efforts in response to our surge and in most wars the largest armies are fielded in the end.
Click to expand...

Typical "Stinger" stamped response.

They are not ramping up their efforts in response to our "surge", they are having all the power in the world now to say, "See? The Americans DO want to take over our land and kill our people", thus giving them incredible fuel when it comes to recruitment of moderate Muslims to radicalism.

The fact of the matter is that more and more moderate Muslims who would have never thought to turn radical are beginning to AGREE with the radicals that America is out to get them, BECAUSE we are on their land, killing civilians (even if by accident), and trying to force Democracy down their throats.

Wake up Stinger.
 
Stinger said:
Most armies field their largest forces in the end.
Click to expand...

So in other words, the insurgency is in its last throes. Success is right around the corner...THIS time, we're sure of it.

...now where have I heard that before? :roll:

 
Happy Days said:
There is a train of thought that suggests the war in Iraq has helped recruit extremists who hate America.
Click to expand...

They had no trouble doing that before Iraq and it is no surprise they continue to recruit as long as the battle is still engaged.

But if you believe that Al Qaeda is on its last legs fielding its largest forces then go right ahead and believe that.
Click to expand...

Since I didn't say that.

The fact that doctors tried to blow up Britain a few weeks ago should tell you that no matter how many Al Qaeda operatives are fighting in Iraq they can still find a handful to go operate elsewhere and kill innocent people.
Click to expand...

And that this is some group claiming al Qaeda affiliation but there is no evidence of coordination with al Qaeda in the ME should tell you something.

You failed to answer my questions try again, how does turning over Iraq to them help us defeat them?

That's why I have always thought that the "we're keeping them busy in Iraq so they don't come here" mentality was severely flawed.
Click to expand...

Keeping an enemy tied down in one area where they must expend resources in a battle with no gain for them is proper military strategy. Why do you think they fight there? Why do you think the waste valuable leaders and resources there?

And again why do you think they will leave Iraq if we do, they will be celebrating victory my friend and then just watch how many sign up with them.
 
Kandahar said:
So in other words, the insurgency is in its last throes. Success is right around the corner...THIS time, we're sure of it.
Click to expand...

Since I didn't say that....................but the fact remains the numbers of troops is not a sign that they are winning.
 
Kasmos said:
Typical "Stinger" stamped response.
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Yes spot on.

They are not ramping up their efforts in response to our "surge",
Click to expand...

Yes they are.

they are having all the power in the world now to say, "See? The Americans DO want to take over our land and kill our people", thus giving them incredible fuel when it comes to recruitment of moderate Muslims to radicalism.
Click to expand...

Iraq is not their land.

The fact of the matter is that more and more moderate Muslims who would have never thought to turn radical are beginning to AGREE with the radicals that America is out to get them,
Click to expand...

The fact is more and more listen to Reid and Pelosi and see America as weakening and will join the stronger side. If we allow them to take over Iraq then you better start hunkering down and waiting for their attack here.

Wake up Stinger.
Click to expand...

Wake up, they were attacking us and killing us long before we were in Iraq, only a fool thinks this is only about Iraq.
 
Stinger said:
Since I didn't say that....................but the fact remains the numbers of troops is not a sign that they are winning.
Click to expand...

Actually, that's exactly what you said. You claimed that most groups field their largest forces just before they collapse, in response to a question about al-Qaeda's new strength. The obvious implication was that you think al-Qaeda is about to collapse. Please don't insult our intelligence and pretend that you meant something else.
 
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