House OKs Minimum Wage Increase

[ModerateDem]

What on earth does that have to do with my question to Wishmaster about the minimum wage in Australia and how it is administered?

Oh I'm sorry did I reign in on your parade of ignorance. I recall in another thread that you said the Democrats lied about working in a Bi-partisan manner. Now all I have to do is throw this in your face to show who lied about what. Just thought I would bring up the numbers just in case you wanted to know.

 

[ModerateDem]

Minimum wage was easy...Wait until Stem Cell Research comes up.............

For sure there are many Republicans who support Stem cell research so garnering some republican votes will be no problem. the only problem is that they will probably not garner enough republican votes to override Pres. Bush's veto. Still the point is that they are reaching out to Republicans despite Stinger's notion of "the Democrats lied about bi-partisanship."

 

[Stinger]

And therefore, a single parent with two kids making the min wage even working 50 hours a week is still well below the poverty level.

Pretty good point for bumping it up to me.

Add in child support. WIC and all the other government money they would be eligible for.

 

[ModerateDem]

Lets see what else...

A family of 4, with 2 working parents?
They're more than $10,000 over poverty level.

A family of 5 with 2 working parents?
They;re more than $6000 over poverty level.

A family of 7 with 2 working parents?
They're $150 below poverty level.

So, 2 working parents making min wage have to have -5- kids before they're at poverty level.

What about a single person @ 40hrs/week?
$5.25x40/hrs/week = $210/week = $10920/yr
Thats $1120 over the poverty level!
(Note too that the Bush tax cuts lowered this person's income taxes by 50%)

Clearly, the Democrats have to put together fairly specific scenarios for their argument to have any meaning, rasing a legitimate question as to exactly how many people their argument applies to.

the only problem I see with a drastic increase of the minimum wage is that the prices of goods and services will rise also. if we can't control the rising cost the effect of raising the minimum wage will have little to no effect. they will still be living under the new poverty level caused by the increase in cost.
What the Senate needs to do, since it is to come before them, is modify the bill, this will take a play out of the conservative playbook, and give tax breaks and incentives to american business owners to help stem the tide of rising costs. My fear is that the more Liberal element of the party will take foot and not give the companies the amount needed in tax breaks to do this. They will only lower it a little and hope that it works. G-d I love being a Pragmatist.

 

[Stinger]

Originally Posted by Stinger
What on earth does that have to do with my question to Wishmaster about the minimum wage in Australia and how it is administered?

Oh I'm sorry did I reign in on your parade of ignorance. I recall in another thread that you said the Democrats lied about working in a Bi-partisan manner. Now all I have to do is throw this in your face to show who lied about what. Just thought I would bring up the numbers just in case you wanted to know.

What on earth are you talking about. And what does it have to do with my question the Wishmaster about Austrialia? Do you want to have a civil discussion or are you just out to make an arse of yourself?

 

[ModerateDem]

What on earth are you talking about. And what does it have to do with my question the Wishmaster about Austrialia? Do you want to have a civil discussion or are you just out to make an arse of yourself?

Nothing, I was just wanting to bring this up to you in light of the other thread.

 

[RightinNYC]

Perhaps you should focus more on your saying "the Democrats lied about Bi-partisanship!" the vote on this was 315-116, with more than 80 Republicans joining Democrats to pass it.

So what do you have to say about Bi-Partisanship now?

Oh, come off it. Just as many republicans supported the minimum wage increase BEFORE this past election. It's not like the Dems did anything special to court them.

 

[RightinNYC]

Regarding increasing the minimum wage - the fact of the matter is that the vast, vast majority of people who are earning the minimum wage are NOT the people who this legislation is supposed to help.

53% of people earning the minimum wage are under the age of 24. Of those who ARE over 24, 2/3 are part-time workers in dual income households.

The average income of a family where someone is earning the minimum wage is $49,885.

Very few of the minimum wage workers are the "single parents trying so desperately to feed their families" that proponents of an increase love to portray.

Further more, in terms of bang for your buck, increasing the min wage is an incredibly ineffectual way to target these people. If you REALLY wanted to help these people who actually NEED it, increasing the child tax deduction, increasing WIC, etc, would all be more efficient.

Personally, I support an increase in the fed min wage simply because NY already did it, and it will keep our state from hemorrhaging even more jobs. Doesn't mean I think it's a good idea.

 

[Zyphlin]

If it will have so little impact what is the fuss about passing it?

Because the Impact isn't just on the minimum wage.

If you include the base wage...aka the starting point...then the most likely scenario is ALL wages are going to go up. Meaning that a hike in the minimum wage is going to cause a likely rise in all pay grades, meaning every business is going to have to be searching for more and more ways to stem that loss of money...most likely by cutting labor.

IE say someones making minimum at 5.15, and another is making 6.00. Lets say the minimum wage is hiked to 5.75 theoretically. Guy that has the background and the experience to be making $6 an hour suddenly see's $5.15 boy get a 60 cent raise. This begins the demands and questions, if he's worth that much more money, then so am I. This continues up and up through the scale of things. Its not just a bump on the minimum wage, its basically a bump upon the general hourly wages paid out in general

 

[Goobieman]

the only problem I see with a drastic increase of the minimum wage is that the prices of goods and services will rise also.

Case in point -- OH raised it minwage to 6.85, and all of the fast food places raised the prices of their combo meals by a buck.

if we can't control the rising cost the effect of raising the minimum wage will have little to no effect. they will still be living under the new poverty level caused by the increase in cost.

Exactly. Its artificial inflation.

What the Senate needs to do, since it is to come before them, is modify the bill, this will take a play out of the conservative playbook, and give tax breaks and incentives to american business owners to help stem the tide of rising costs. My fear is that the more Liberal element of the party will take foot and not give the companies the amount needed in tax breaks to do this.

As I said previously -- at some point, the left will manage to pass a MinWage increase that makes it illegal to let people go to make up the costs.

Really, this is just another version of class warfare -- "businesses make a lot of money and so they can afford to pay people more".

 

[Iriemon]

Because the Impact isn't just on the minimum wage.

If you include the base wage...aka the starting point...then the most likely scenario is ALL wages are going to go up. Meaning that a hike in the minimum wage is going to cause a likely rise in all pay grades, meaning every business is going to have to be searching for more and more ways to stem that loss of money...most likely by cutting labor.

IE say someones making minimum at 5.15, and another is making 6.00. Lets say the minimum wage is hiked to 5.75 theoretically. Guy that has the background and the experience to be making $6 an hour suddenly see's $5.15 boy get a 60 cent raise. This begins the demands and questions, if he's worth that much more money, then so am I. This continues up and up through the scale of things. Its not just a bump on the minimum wage, its basically a bump upon the general hourly wages paid out in general

I agree there is some effect here, tho' I dispute the conetion that except perhpas in the most heirachitical wage regimes the wave would travel up that far.

 

[ARealConservative]

Can't you think of any more? I can think of a few you left off:

4) Dad died

Social security benefits would apply

5) Dad ran away

Child support will apply.

6) Dad is a deadbeat and doesn't or can't pay support.

If after directly garnishing his wages he decided not to work to avoid paying, then a problem would certainly exist for the mom.

Fortunately, she is a decent person, and because we finally got rid of the oppressive tax structure, those around her have enough money to help and our more then willing to do so.

 

[ModerateDem]

Oh, come off it. Just as many republicans supported the minimum wage increase BEFORE this past election. It's not like the Democrats did anything special to court them.

true, but you cannot say that it wasnt bi-partisan.

 

[ModerateDem]

Case in point -- OH raised it minwage to 6.85, and all of the fast food places raised the prices of their combo meals by a buck.

Yes, I know I live in Columbus.

Exactly. Its artificial inflation.

No disagreement there.

As I said previously -- at some point, the left will manage to pass a MinWage increase that makes it illegal to let people go to make up the costs.

Which is unfair to the businesses especially smaller businesses that should have some added benefits to help them with the cost of the increase.

Really, this is just another version of class warfare -- "businesses make a lot of money and so they can afford to pay people more".

I like to think of it as an attempt to get people out of the poverty level but they have to compensate businesses in order to do that. Which is why if i were a voting member of the congress I would oppose the measure until some sort of compensation for businesses is added into it.

 

[Iriemon]

Fortunately, she is a decent person, and because we finally got rid of the oppressive tax structure, those around her have enough money to help and our more then willing to do so.

And they all lived happily ever after.

And about as realistic as a fairy tale.

 

[RightinNYC]

true, but you cannot say that it wasnt bi-partisan.

Was it bipartisan when the House passed the Republican sponsored bill last summer that would have raised the min wage?

 

[Iriemon]

Was it bipartisan when the House passed the Republican sponsored bill last summer that would have raised the min wage?

What was not bipartisan when the Republicans sponsored a min wage bill is that they tagged onto it a big tax cut, I think it was to eliminate all taxes the wealthy pay, or something like that.

It was the last gasp of the pro-debt crowd before the election.

 

[ARealConservative]

And they all lived happily ever after.

And about as realistic as a fairy tale.

60+ years of socialism and the problems keep getting worse and worse.

So, who is living the fairy tale?

 

[Zyphlin]

What was not bipartisan when the Republicans sponsored a min wage bill is that they tagged onto it a big tax cut, I think it was to eliminate all taxes the wealthy pay, or something like that.

It was the last gasp of the pro-debt crowd before the election.

Yep. That's exactly it. They set it up so that they'd raise the minimum wage and the "wealthy" would pay 0% of their income in taxes. It even exempted them from paying sales tax. Damned "wealthy" and those evil republicans!

Actually, if I remember correctly it was tax breaks on businesses, particularly small businesses, to off set the fact that they will end up having to pay every employee more money

 

[Iriemon]

Yep. That's exactly it. They set it up so that they'd raise the minimum wage and the "wealthy" would pay 0% of their income in taxes. It even exempted them from paying sales tax. Damned "wealthy" and those evil republicans!

Actually, if I remember correctly it was tax breaks on businesses, particularly small businesses, to off set the fact that they will end up having to pay every employee more money

I thought maybe it was elimination of the estate taxes. I don't remember and don't really care.

 

[Iriemon]

60+ years of socialism and the problems keep getting worse and worse.

So, who is living the fairy tale?

Jeez, I think our country has generally done pretty damn well over the past 60 years. Folks are generally a lot better off now than in 1946. If that is because of socialism, paint me red!

 

[ARealConservative]

Jeez, I think our country has generally done pretty damn well over the past 60 years. Folks are generally a lot better off now than in 1946. If that is because of socialism, paint me red!

don't worry, we have you down as red to the core.