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House Jan. 6 committee announces last-minute hearing Tuesday

Ethel2 said:
Again: please name a single election where the results have been so influenced by fraud that the wrong person, the one with more votes, lost.
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Of course until the recent elections all mail in votes came to the polls and were documented by the poll workers (We the People). Now instead of thousands of people all across the state making sure your vote is counted it is now the government who is counting the votes. Or it is being done by a select few people working for the government. These select few people clearly have the ability to overturn any election. This was nearly impossible when thousands of people from all across the state were involved. Someone would say something plus a single polling place does not have enough votes to usually change an election. It would take lots of polling place to conspire together to do this. I would say without question where I have worked I have never seen anything hat would even bring suspicion of fraud. But when 10's even 100's of thousands of votes are being counted in a central location under the control of the people who are running for election I would say the chance of fraud become very high. Especially when the money to be made from getting elected is in the millions of dollars.

Don't be blind. Work the polls and see for yourself how keeping all these polling place counting your vote has protected us from fraud. Then you will know why dismantling that system as become so important to our current government.
 
ElChupacabra said:
Again, this still involves people trusting the integrity of pollsters and election workers, which to a paranoid skeptic doesn't mean much of anything if the crux of their argument is that fraud is possible.
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Do you have any idea the process required to be a poll worker? You still believe that there is the same potential fraud with in person voting as their is with mail in ballots. Why can't the left admit that mail in ballots are subjective to fraud?
 
PIPEWRENCH said:
Of course until the recent elections all mail in votes came to the polls and were documented by the poll workers (We the People). Now instead of thousands of people all across the state making sure your vote is counted it is now the government who is counting the votes. Or it is being done by a select few people working for the government. These select few people clearly have the ability to overturn any election. This was nearly impossible when thousands of people from all across the state were involved. Someone would say something plus a single polling place does not have enough votes to usually change an election. It would take lots of polling place to conspire together to do this. I would say without question where I have worked I have never seen anything hat would even bring suspicion of fraud. But when 10's even 100's of thousands of votes are being counted in a central location under the control of the people who are running for election I would say the chance of fraud become very high. Especially when the money to be made from getting elected is in the millions of dollars.

Don't be blind. Work the polls and see for yourself how keeping all these polling place counting your vote has protected us from fraud. Then you will know why dismantling that system as become so important to our current government.
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Great. I am happy that voting at a polling place is in your mind secure. I think its secure enough too. But thats not the issue is it. The issue is whether or not voting by mail is also secure enough. I posted a link to an article that concluded that going back 30 years not a single election's results were so influenced by fraud that the winner became the loser. As I wrote elsewhere, regulating mail in voting is a solution in search of a problem.
 
upsideguy said:
Cite for that statement please.
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Did you ever get your citation for this statement? Or, like I've seen that account do so many other times, did it just ride off into the sunset?
 
ElChupacabra said:
Again, this still involves people trusting the integrity of pollsters and election workers, which to a paranoid skeptic doesn't mean much of anything if the crux of their argument is that fraud is possible.
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Your fighting a losing argument. I had that same thought in my 20's. The difference is I did something bout it. I went and saw the first hand how it works and became a part of it. For nearly 40 years now I had no doubt our election process was one of the best in the world. In all the different polling locations I have worked I have never seen anything that would bring concern to me about our election process at the polls. All my concerns are about what happens when We the People are removed from the process of counting our votes in favor of those who have everything to gain by committing fraud. If you can't see this you will lose your right to vote by having your vote not counted at some point.
 
Conservative said:
LOL, not to the extent it was during this election cycle and nothing changes the reality that you cannot give a valid reason for people not going to the polls or valid proof that there cannot be mail in ballot fraud. You keep buying that liberal bs, show up at the polls or your vote won't be counted, MY OPINION
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LOL
Nope. I do my own research. I have yet to see any creditable evidence that the 2020 election was stolen or rigged .
The election fraud that occurred was minimal and was done by people supporting both Trump and Biden.

It seems you are the one that has bought into the far rights bs on the election.
 
Conservative said:
Do you have any idea the process required to be a poll worker? You still believe that there is the same potential fraud with in person voting as their is with mail in ballots. Why can't the left admit that mail in ballots are subjective to fraud?
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Not a Left. Of course mail in ballots have the potential for fraud. So does any method of voting have potential for fraud.

The problem you have is to show the system is so broken that it needs a major change.
(you can't. other than your person lost in 2020.)
 
Ethel2 said:
Great. I am happy that voting at a polling place is in your mind secure. I think its secure enough too. But thats not the issue is it. The issue is whether or not voting by mail is also secure enough. I posted a link to an article that concluded that going back 30 years not a single election's results were so influenced by fraud that the winner became the loser. As I wrote elsewhere, regulating mail in voting is a solution in search of a problem.
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Voting has always been secure until the counting of those votes are no longer don by We the People. Voting by mail has been going on since long before I started working the poll almost 40 years ago. We the People are no longer going to be counting our votes is the real danger and a guarantee of fraud. I have been an integral part of the voting process most of my adult life. Until the last couple of years I would have said without any doubt that voter fraud was non existent or not a factor in any election except possibly a local election. An election that involved only a sing polling place where the vote could be manipulated.
 
mike2810 said:
Not a Left. Of course mail in ballots have the potential for fraud. So does any method of voting have potential for fraud.

The problem you have is to show the system is so broken that it needs a major change.
(you can't. other than your person lost in 2020.)
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You show me equal potential for fraud with in person voting vs mail in ballots and I will admit being wrong and change my tune. I don't have to show the system is broken, it is proven that people believe they are entitled to vote from their home, their basement, on their computers without any serious concerns when the reality is big money, power run the parties today and there isn't a more selfish party than the Democrat Party. You want to vote, then participate by showing up at the polls or give me a valid reason for justifying mail in ballots?
 
Conservative said:
Right such passion the left has that they cannot go to the polls to cast their ballots
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Ya know, most good fisherman at least put a bit of attention into baiting the hook. If is not fat and juicy, it ain't gonna attract the fish. Moreover, you are fishing in the wrong pond as this thread is not about mail in ballots.

fishing - no fishing 5.png
 
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Conservative said:
You show me equal potential for fraud with in person voting vs mail in ballots and I will admit being wrong and change my tune. I don't have to show the system is broken, it is proven that people believe they are entitled to vote from their home, their basement, on their computers without any serious concerns when the reality is big money, power run the parties today and there isn't a more selfish party than the Democrat Party. You want to vote, then participate by showing up at the polls or give me a valid reason for justifying mail in ballots?
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sigh.
It is not a equal in person vs mail in voting.

You use the word "potential" for fraud. I stated that all voting systems have the potential. Heck that is the method Logan used in the so called audit in Arizona.
Cyber Ninjas findings were based on "it is possible". Further study shows Logan was full of it. Routers, not an issue. Voting System, air gapped. Over written file, part of the normal windows operating system set up., etc. etc.

I am not trying to change your mind. It is clear you do not like mail in voting.
Tell me this. Why no big concern in 2016 or 2012 or other past elections? Republicans did nothing to change voting laws till Trump lost. Why is that?
 
PIPEWRENCH said:
Voting has always been secure until the counting of those votes are no longer don by We the People. Voting by mail has been going on since long before I started working the poll almost 40 years ago. We the People are no longer going to be counting our votes is the real danger and a guarantee of fraud. I have been an integral part of the voting process most of my adult life. Until the last couple of years I would have said without any doubt that voter fraud was non existent or not a factor in any election except possibly a local election. An election that involved only a sing polling place where the vote could be manipulated.
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So you have no proof that fraud in a major election ever altered the results.
Is that correct?
A yes or a no will do.
 
Slyfox696 said:
Did you ever get your citation for this statement? Or, like I've seen that account do so many other times, did it just ride off into the sunset?
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Yes, it appears our cowboy was all hat, no cattle.

I think I right that the only cite he had for his nonsense was an April 2021 article that the FBI had (at that point, before earnest investigations really began) yet to find evidence of a larger conspiracy (which I preemptively posted). Some people grab one news article that fits their agenda and never let go of it even though assessments such as this change.


All Hat No Cattle 2.jpg
 
Ethel2 said:
So you have no proof that fraud in a major election ever altered the results.
Is that correct?
A yes or a no will do.
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I have never seen any fraud at the polls in nearly 40 years of working the polls. That is a fact. I cannot say what happens with these mail in votes from the last couple of elections that no longer come to the polls for We the People to count. They are now counted by who knows. I cannot rule out fraud when the counting of the vote is taken away from the people and put in the hands of those who benefit most from the outcome of the count.
 
PIPEWRENCH said:
I have never seen any fraud at the polls in nearly 40 years of working the polls. That is a fact. I cannot say what happens with these mail in votes from the last couple of elections that no longer come to the polls for We the People to count. They are now counted by who knows. I cannot rule out fraud when the counting of the vote is taken away from the people and put in the hands of those who benefit most from the outcome of the count.
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I always love when conservatives broach a topic that they don't know about and make bold statement about because they don't know how then nobody must know how.
 
Conservative said:
You show me equal potential for fraud with in person voting vs mail in ballots and I will admit being wrong and change my tune. I don't have to show the system is broken, it is proven that people believe they are entitled to vote from their home, their basement, on their computers without any serious concerns when the reality is big money, power run the parties today and there isn't a more selfish party than the Democrat Party. You want to vote, then participate by showing up at the polls or give me a valid reason for justifying mail in ballots?
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I have no problem with mail in ballots. I have a problem with who is counting those ballots. When we the people count the votes I believe fraud will not be an issue in deciding our elections. However when the people who are benefiting from the election especially those being elected I am very concerned. I want the ballots to come to the polling locations and counted by We the People not our corrupt leaders.
 
PIPEWRENCH said:
I have never seen any fraud at the polls in nearly 40 years of working the polls. That is a fact. I cannot say what happens with these mail in votes from the last couple of elections that no longer come to the polls for We the People to count. They are now counted by who knows. I cannot rule out fraud when the counting of the vote is taken away from the people and put in the hands of those who benefit most from the outcome of the count.
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In other words you have no evidence that fraud is occurring with mail in ballots. That’s fair. I don’t either.
 
PIPEWRENCH said:
Your fighting a losing argument. I had that same thought in my 20's. The difference is I did something bout it. I went and saw the first hand how it works and became a part of it. For nearly 40 years now I had no doubt our election process was one of the best in the world. In all the different polling locations I have worked I have never seen anything that would bring concern to me about our election process at the polls. All my concerns are about what happens when We the People are removed from the process of counting our votes in favor of those who have everything to gain by committing fraud. If you can't see this you will lose your right to vote by having your vote not counted at some point.
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It's not my argument though; what I'm doing is debating the point from the perspective of someone who thinks the possibility of fraud is enough to distrust the process and the people involved. People coming at this issue from that angle are never going to be placated, because there's always reason not to do something out of that distrust. Mail in ballots are handled by election workers, so if you distrust that process, why should someone trust in-person pollsters? A lack of trust from the angle I'm coming from will never be placated. Currently we have states which process mail in votes only, and neither the results of elections or fraud have been radically different than the in person process.

What no one seems to be able to answer is why there would suddenly be the desire to commit fraud by thousands upon thousands of citizens when getting them to vote is already a challenge.
 
PIPEWRENCH said:
That is where you are wrong. A lot of people actually care. When we close the polls at the end of the night anyone can walk up and get the actual results of how the people voted that day at the polling area that day. We post it on the door. The government can't change those results once they are tallied. No I do not trust our government. Especially when people can make over a 1/4 billion dollars for being in elected. I trust the people of the ten's of thousands of polling places to make sure their vote is counted. That is why I work the polls. I want to see our votes counted by We the People not our government and then trust them to tell us the truth. We can clearly see the results of trusting the government all over the world. Putin and his government count the votes. Is that what we want here. I hope not. If so we can kiss our freedom goodbye.
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this seems to convey your thoughts; possibly attributable to stalin:
"It's not the people who vote that count, it's the people who count the votes."
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after the 2000 presidential election tally in florida, can't say it is a wrong observation
 
Conservative said:
Do you have any idea the process required to be a poll worker? You still believe that there is the same potential fraud with in person voting as their is with mail in ballots. Why can't the left admit that mail in ballots are subjective to fraud?
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You keep asking this question when I had already stated that the possibility is certainly there; as there is with just about anything. What you have failed to do is provide any kind of data quantifying how big a threat this actually is, and without that it could be a very small amount or a much larger one. What helps in my position is there's already mail-in only voting to assess whether fraud increases, and it hasn't. You just base it on opinions and assumptions.
 
ElChupacabra said:
You keep asking this question when I had already stated that the possibility is certainly there; as there is with just about anything. What you have failed to do is provide any kind of data quantifying how big a threat this actually is, and without that it could be a very small amount or a much larger one. What helps in my position is there's already mail-in only voting to assess whether fraud increases, and it hasn't. You just base it on opinions and assumptions.
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Where is that merry-go-round emoji you always post because that is what I get from you all the time. There are always the total vote count and make up of those votes, in person or mail in. Look, this really is a waste of time, you aren't going to change my mind nor me. I stand behind my post about more potential fraud with mail in ballots than in person voting and you cannot refute that reality
 
PIPEWRENCH said:
I have no problem with mail in ballots. I have a problem with who is counting those ballots. When we the people count the votes I believe fraud will not be an issue in deciding our elections. However when the people who are benefiting from the election especially those being elected I am very concerned. I want the ballots to come to the polling locations and counted by We the People not our corrupt leaders.
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Although I like your post I will always have a problem with mail in ballots as it shows to me laziness and people who don't really have an interest in the election process.
 
ElChupacabra said:
You keep asking this question when I had already stated that the possibility is certainly there; as there is with just about anything. What you have failed to do is provide any kind of data quantifying how big a threat this actually is, and without that it could be a very small amount or a much larger one. What helps in my position is there's already mail-in only voting to assess whether fraud increases, and it hasn't. You just base it on opinions and assumptions.
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One more question, do you support what California and 9 other states do for elections? shouldn't it be a requirement that people ASK for a ballot vs having one sent to a particular addres?

www.huffpost.com

Here Are The States That Automatically Mail Ballots To All Voters

California has joined nine other states and Washington, D.C., to mandate that every voter be mailed a ballot by default ahead of an election.
www.huffpost.com www.huffpost.com
 
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upsideguy said:
Ya know, most good fisherman at least put a bit of attention into baiting the hook. If is not fat and juicy, it ain't gonna attract the fish. Moreover, you are fishing in the wrong pond as this thread is not about mail in ballots.

View attachment 67399461
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What attention to the process do people have how have an official ballot sent to them in 9 states across the country and the District of Columbia?

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