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Hotel fights back after Donald Trump threatens to not pay

MaggieD said:
Jesus. You don't know anything. You don't know the temp in the room. You don't know if the a/c was working correctly. What is wrong with you guys?
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OK, and what do you know that I don't? Was the AC working properly? What was the temp in the room? What is a reasonable expectation given the outside temp, the number of people, the time required to leave the outside doors open getting 1,000 through security in the middle of a blazing hot day?

One thing I do know, however, is the Hotel did NOT admit anything like what you said they admitted. :doh
 
HenryChinaski said:
200 Liens have been filed against this clown for ditching the bill. Maybe we ought to try that, just constanly say you're not happy with "the service provided" and then everything is free!
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Again, in the construction business that's the way things go. I recommend to my clients who are in that line of work that they pre-lien any property they are doing a major job for. There are CONSTANT arguments about quality of work, completion dates, change orders, etc. If you are a developer you will have countless liens on your properties even after construction because anyone that has to repair an elevator or install a new window on the 45th floor is going to pre-lien.
 
Tanngrisnir said:
Yes, it's what he's know for.
USA TODAY exclusive: Hundreds allege Donald Trump doesn’t pay his bills
Donald Trump?s Business Plan Left a Trail of Unpaid Bills - WSJ

Don't let reality frighten you.
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This is what your link says...along with a notice that if I want more info, I have to pay.

Donald Trump often boasts on the presidential campaign trail that hardball tactics helped make him a successful businessman, an approach many voters say they admire. Those tactics have also left behind bitter tales among business owners who say he shortchanged them.
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JasperL said:
LOL, no I didn't. :roll: Here's the relevant part of their statement:



There cannot be an expectation that the HVAC system in a rented facility is able to maintain a perfect 72 degrees or whatever in every possible situation. It's just not how it works. This thing was at 3pm on a very hot day (high 93), which means for the previous hour or more, as 1,000 attendees or so were checked for security, the doors to the outside were open and letting in the heat. If anyone thinks that the AC reasonably should be able to keep pace with that, they're delusional or a cheapskate looking for an excuse to not pay their bills.
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If its a properly sized and maintained system yes the system should have been able to keep up even with security and front entrances kept open. Chiller units are designed for these facilities for this type of use. As that is the typical usage of facilities of this type.
 
JasperL said:
OK, and what do you know that I don't? Was the AC working properly? What was the temp in the room? What is a reasonable expectation given the outside temp, the number of people, the time required to leave the outside doors open getting 1,000 through security in the middle of a blazing hot day?

One thing I do know, however, is the Hotel did NOT admit anything like what you said they admitted. :doh
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They said the room was too crowded to expect the ac to function properly. If you can't cool a room with full occupancy, you're over-filling it. As to what I know, I'm responding to those who seem to know it all and pointing out the ridiculous assumptions they're making.
 
MaggieD said:
Link with specifics. I owned a business for 25 years. I've hired contractors. I've negotiated crap work. You obviously have not. If all you get is a W2, if you're not in upper management for a large company, you can't begin to understand big business.
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Donald Trump?s Business Plan Left a Trail of Unpaid Bills - WSJ Honest question, if the OP were about Clinton instead, what would your position be? Donald Trump Says He Won't Pay Lousy Contractors. Should You? - Fortune
 
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tres borrachos said:
The purpose of central air conditioning in a convention space is to keep the temperature at a reasonable rate for hundreds or thousands of guests. I've been in convention halls in Las Vegas in the dead of summer when it's 127 degrees out side and you have to take a cab to even cross the street, but inside the facility it's perfectly cooled. I don't see what the story is here. Trump felt, possibly rightfully so (I have no idea as I wasn't there), that his guests were not in an atmosphere that was comfortable for them, and the facility was too hot. The hotel blames it on the number of guests and the outside temperature. That was their job to make the air conditioning work properly.

I think Trump's in the right here. Sorry. This is also the weakest "fighting back" I ever saw.
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They're really not comparable situations. I imagine if, e.g., because of security the hotel in LV had to leave all the front doors open during the heat of the day for an hour or more that for the 1st hour of the event it might take a while for the AC to catch up.

he might or might not have a point, but hosting a POTUS candidate during the heat of a near record hot day isn't what a person planning the HVAC would anticipate and gear up for.
 
JasperL said:
They're really not comparable situations. I imagine if, e.g., because of security the hotel in LV had to leave all the front doors open during the heat of the day for an hour or more that for the 1st hour of the event it might take a while for the AC to catch up.

he might or might not have a point, but hosting a POTUS candidate during the heat of a near record hot day isn't what a person planning the HVAC would anticipate and gear up for.
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Being in a convention space in the broiling heat and being in a convention space in the broiling heat aren't comparable. Okay.
 
MaggieD said:
They said the room was too crowded to expect the ac to function properly. If you can't cool a room with full occupancy, you're over-filling it. As to what I know, I'm responding to those who seem to know it all and pointing out the ridiculous assumptions they're making.
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The circumstances were unusual and atypical for reasons I stated. I guess you have no comment on those circumstances and why they might REASONABLY not keep the area perfectly cooled during a relatively short event.

But, yes, if the only consideration is keeping the inside temp at 68 or 72, then maybe the 'hotel' did overfill it, but I'm doubting that was the main consideration of the hotel or the Trump people who wanted to let in as many as the space would allow for other purposes - safety, etc. So there's a likely necessary trade off.
 
tres borrachos said:
Being in a convention space in the broiling heat and being in a convention space in the broiling heat aren't comparable. Okay.
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So in your event did Secret Service have to check tickets at the door, every purse, every backpack, every briefcase, have every person dump their pockets and go through a metal detector, maybe dogs sniffing for explosives, etc......... and doing so entail keeping probably all the outside doors open for at least an hour between 2 and 3pm, while the crowd makes its way into the ballroom?

I'm guessing... not, and if not then the circumstances are materially different, and with completely different conditions we might expect different reasonable outcomes! But you know that.....:roll:
 
MaggieD said:
How did they fight back? Was it by admitting they allowed too high an occupancy in the venue? Or that their air conditioning system was under-sized? Boy, they're tough.
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Seems to me the the hotel's A/C system was just stressed due to over-capacity not due to a malfunction or the system not operating at all. In hindsight, maybe the hotel manager should have followed fire ordinance policy and limited capacity to the maximum allowable limit. Still, I don't necessarily blame the hotel here. They provided a venue for Trump's event. He knew environmental conditions deteriorated as more people filled the ballroom and, as such, the temperature was not suitable to his liking. He made that clear when he addressed the crowd and commented on how warm it was in the ballroom. That said, cold air is optional. Stiffing your patrons with the bill is not.
 
JasperL said:
The relevant question is whether it was reasonable under the circumstances (93 degrees outside, 3pm gathering, 1,000 attendees, outside doors open for hours getting them into the building and checked by security) to expect the temps in the ballroom to be at a comfy and cool 72 or whatever for what is a relatively short session.
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The outside doors were open? Lol what?? It's a huge building, and the ballroom is a separate room, with it's own zone(s) and maybe even its own unit. The outside doors being open is a non-factor. "Hundreds of people" is not that unusual for a large ballroom - hotels host large conferences all the time.
 
JasperL said:
So in your event did Secret Service have to check tickets at the door, every purse, every backpack, every briefcase, have every person dump their pockets and go through a metal detector, maybe dogs sniffing for explosives, etc......... and doing so entail keeping probably all the outside doors open for at least an hour between 2 and 3pm, while the crowd makes its way into the ballroom?

I'm guessing... not, and if not then the circumstances are materially different, and with completely different conditions we might expect different reasonable outcomes! But you know that.....:roll:
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No, but there were many thousands of people walking in and out, and yes, people had to go through security. Did backpacks cause the AC to not function properly? Or was it the purses. I guess dogs interfere with air conditioning in public spaces now. It's amazing that my dogs' indoor daycare remains so cool. Especially with the doors opening and closing from 6 am to 6 pm

You weren't there, I wasn't there, but unlike you, I know air conditioning is supposed to work, I know if I paid for a venue and it included central air conditioning I would expect it to be working, and you are going to amazing lengths to discredit Trump without any data. I get that though. There's a difference between people like me who actively choose to oppose Trump but don't make things up to attack him, and people who are so blinded by hatred they will hump any story to make the man look bad.
 
Taylor said:
If i order a steak at a restaurant and it comes out after an hour and is cold, I have every right to refuse to pay for "services rendered" - even if the restaurant is "unusually" full. Depending on how hot it actually was at the hotel, I don't see this as much different.
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That reminds me of the time a mexican restaurant named Tico's opened near my neighborhood. First of all, some of the waitresses didn't even speak English, so if my gf wasn't there to be a translator we would've been screwed. And they also had a limited ****ing menu, so nearly half of the stuff they had on the menu wasn't even available. And on top of all that, it took over an hour for our food to get to us, and it was terrible.

Thankfully, we didn't have to pay anything because the service and the food was so bad.
 
tres borrachos said:
No, but there were many thousands of people walking in and out, and yes, people had to go through security. Did backpacks cause the AC to not function properly? Or was it the purses. I guess dogs interfere with air conditioning in public spaces now. It's amazing that my dogs' indoor daycare remains so cool. Especially with the doors opening and closing from 6 am to 6 pm

You weren't there, I wasn't there, but unlike you, I know air conditioning is supposed to work, I know if I paid for a venue and it included central air conditioning I would expect it to be working, and you are going to amazing lengths to discredit Trump without any data. I get that though. There's a difference between people like me who actively choose to oppose Trump but don't make things up to attack him, and people who are so blinded by hatred they will hump any story to make the man look bad.
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Does Trump have a history of stiffing vendors and contractors or not?
 
HenryChinaski said:
Where does it state that there was no air conditioning?
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Right here:

"A Virginia hotel is fighting back against Donald Trump after the GOP presidential nominee criticized the air conditioning -- or lack thereof -- at a Monday event there."
 
MaggieD said:
Link with specifics. I owned a business for 25 years. I've hired contractors. I've negotiated crap work. You obviously have not. If all you get is a W2, if you're not in upper management for a large company, you can't begin to understand big business.
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This should have ended the thread right here.

You describe above the major problem I have with 90%+ of progressive leftist political hate that's spewed toward successful people, businesses, and corporations as a whole. They don't have a clue what they're taking about. There's no way they can understand because they've never been there. They make illogical and uneducated assumptions, as the OP does in this thread.

Well said Maggs.
 
Taylor said:
The outside doors were open? Lol what?? It's a huge building, and the ballroom is a separate room, with it's own zone(s) and maybe even its own unit. The outside doors being open is a non-factor. "Hundreds of people" is not that unusual for a large ballroom - hotels host large conferences all the time.
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Yeah, OK, and I guess it makes no difference if the temps outside the ballroom are 68 or 85 - that won't affect the ballroom temps at all because the doors to the ballroom won't be open during that whole time as well....wait wut???

And, of course they host large conferences all the time, but it's just obvious that a 'conference' for someone with SS protection, with nearly all of the attendees not staying in the hotel, starting at 3pm during the hottest part of the day and lasting for an hour or less is different in just about every meaningful way from a typical conference.
 
Taylor said:
If i order a steak at a restaurant and it comes out after an hour and is cold, I have every right to refuse to pay for "services rendered" - even if the restaurant is "unusually" full. Depending on how hot it actually was at the hotel, I don't see this as much different.
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ON that, all I can say is if Trump's campaign contracted/leased this hotel ballroom with specific instructions that they wanted a venue capable of hosting guest to a certain capacity (i.e., 500-1000 people), serving food and drinks to specifications with air conditioning AND the ballroom exceeding its capacity limit and Trump knew that, it's debatable whether Trump should just pay up and accept the services rendered or if the hotel is responsible for not keeping a proper head count and turning people away at the door once they reached capacity.

I think ultimately, the hotel will probably just have to suck this one up. Pity...have you guys Googled the place? Their ballroom is exquisite! But if he walks out on the bill, they'll probably never host Donald Trump or one of his events ever again.
 
HenryChinaski said:
Does Trump have a history of stiffing vendors and contractors or not?
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We don't know, and neither do you. If you're basing your assumption on the press reports, then you and they are making the mistake of equating normal business negotiations with what you call stiffing. That's understandable since most in the press and many on the left (I know, redundant) like those that support unions over business have no knowledge of earning income based on merit and quality of services provided, rather than getting paid for just showing up, or just getting paid regardless.
 
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