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Honor, In a Wrongful War

Billo_Really

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How Do We Honor Our Fallen Troops in a Wrongful War?
By Paul Rockwell t r u t h o u t | Book Review Friday 25 November 2005


A review of Cindy Sheehan's uplifting and soulful book.
The agony of war can transform any human being.

In 1914, at the outset of World War I, Rudyard Kipling, the bellicose poet of the British empire who coined the infamous phrase "white man's burden," urged his own son to join the British military. One week after his son enlisted, he was dead. Overwhelmed with grief, Kipling wrote two "Epitaphs for War." In the first, dead soldiers speak:

If any question why we died,
Tell them because our fathers lied.


In the second, "The Dead Statesman," a statesman speaks:

And now all my lies are proved untrue.
And I must face the men I slew.
What tale shall serve me here among
Mine angry and defrauded young.


There are many kinds of betrayal in human affairs - forgery, embezzlement, adultery, murder. But in the affairs of state, there is no greater disloyalty, no greater act of betrayal, than to send young men and women to their deaths on the basis of fraud.

To lie is to murder.

That is the theme of Cindy Sheehan's defiant, witty, compassionate, and deeply patriotic first book, Not One More Mother's Son. What begins in grief over the loss of her son Casey on April 4, 2004, ends in hope at Camp Casey in Crawford, Texas, in August 2005. Action overcomes grief. Direct action empowers.

While she confronts the enormity of suffering caused by lies of state, she does not devote a lot of space to proving that Bush manufactured the case for war. She relies on the long trail of evidence - the early vows of Bush to "take down Saddam;" the revelations of Paul O'Neill, Joseph Wilson, Richard Clark and other whistle blowers; the report of Representative Henry Waxmen on administration statements known to be false at the time they were made; and of course, the Downing Street memo. All evidence that is already available.


http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/112605X.shtml
I have not read her book. But I have asked this question to myself many times. To date, I have not been satisfied by any of my answers. Maybe those more knowledgable than I can offer their suggestions on the best way to honor our troops who are fighting a war that should never have been.

I don't care (in this thread) how we got here. I do care (in this thread) what do we do now to honor those that have fallen and the ones still in harms way. Like I said, I don't have any answers for this one. But I am ready to listen.
 
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Ah, good old truthout.org. Are you sure you're not danarhea? lol Don't you find it the least bit hypocritical to berate posters for newsmax and fox when you opt for a source as looney as truthout.org?

I love how you liberals think the war is 'wrongful' just because you say it is. It's a partisan opinion, nothing more.

A marine in my neighborhood came home from Iraq yesterday. He laughs at your partisan rhetoric and is proud to have served this country and this president in a very worthy cause. He even served for your hate-filled soul.
 

Billo_Really

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Originally posted by KCConservative:
Ah, good old truthout.org. Are you sure you're not danarhea? lol Don't you find it the least bit hypocritical to berate posters for newsmax and fox when you opt for a source as looney as truthout.org?

I love how you liberals think the war is 'wrongful' just because you say it is. It's a partisan opinion, nothing more.

A marine in my neighborhood came home from Iraq yesterday. He laughs at your partisan rhetoric and is proud to have served this country and this president in a very worthy cause. He even served for your hate-filled soul.
Is that what you call honor? Going on some lame rant about a subject you no nothing about. As well as making sh!t up along the way. I've never berated anyone for newsmax or fox. You don't have to lie.
 
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Billo_Really said:
Is that what you call honor? Going on some lame rant about a subject you no nothing about. As well as making sh!t up along the way. I've never berated anyone for newsmax or fox. You don't have to lie.
Hello Pot, I'd like to introduce you to Kettle.
 

shuamort

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Mod Note

Let's knock off the personal attacks in this thread.

/Mod Note
 
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shuamort said:
Mod Note

Let's knock off the personal attacks in this thread.

/Mod Note
Much thanks. The word 'liar' is really getting tired around here.
 
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After reviewing truthout.org I find it hard to take anything they say seriously. It's a far from center site to hate the President and the country.

You want to honor the troops. Stick with them.

DON'T call them nazi's
DON'T compare them to stormtroopers
DON'T call them terrorist

RESPECT there job and there mission

It's amazing how the story chnages when you actually talk to those that have been there. You don't seem to hear about this hatred toward the troops or the horrible conditions. I have heard soldiers say that there glad we are there and they think we are doing good. But I have no doubt there are some that are against it all. That does not however mean the whole thing has gone south. I think it means more that the media is less likely to report what has gone right.
 

Billo_Really

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Originally posted by Calm2Chaos
After reviewing truthout.org I find it hard to take anything they say seriously. It's a far from center site to hate the President and the country.

You want to honor the troops. Stick with them.

DON'T call them nazi's
DON'T compare them to stormtroopers
DON'T call them terrorist

RESPECT there job and there mission

It's amazing how the story chnages when you actually talk to those that have been there. You don't seem to hear about this hatred toward the troops or the horrible conditions. I have heard soldiers say that there glad we are there and they think we are doing good. But I have no doubt there are some that are against it all. That does not however mean the whole thing has gone south. I think it means more that the media is less likely to report what has gone right.
Which is what? The former Prime Minister during the Transitional Authority government has come out and said recently that things are just as bad now as they were with Hussein in charge. He's accusing his fellow Shiites of doing the same things Hussein was doing with the death squads. We practically leveled a city of 300,000 people. Do you think more right than wrong is going on?
 

Calm2Chaos

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Billo_Really said:
Which is what? The former Prime Minister during the Transitional Authority government has come out and said recently that things are just as bad now as they were with Hussein in charge. He's accusing his fellow Shiites of doing the same things Hussein was doing with the death squads. We practically leveled a city of 300,000 people. Do you think more right than wrong is going on?
Iraqi President Jalal Talabani stated today that Allawi's statement is wrong.

"I cannot imagine that such nonsense has been said by Dr Allawi because he is very well aware that now in Iraq we are enjoying all kinds of democratic rights," Mr Talabani told BBC World television after Mr Allawi's comments appeared in British newspaper The Observer.



I think far more good then bad is going on in these cities. At least as far as our concerns and our actions go. We building or rebuilding an entire infrastructure of iraq. Schools and hospitals are opening everyday. Parts of Northern Iraq economy are booming to the point of getting migration of arabs and iranians for plentiful work
 

Billo_Really

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Originally Posted by Calm2Chaos:
Iraqi President Jalal Talabani stated today that Allawi's statement is wrong.

"I cannot imagine that such nonsense has been said by Dr Allawi because he is very well aware that now in Iraq we are enjoying all kinds of democratic rights," Mr Talabani told BBC World television after Mr Allawi's comments appeared in British newspaper The Observer.
I'm sure there is good and bad going on. But the "bad" that is going on, is really bad!

Government Accused of Death Squads in Iraq
By Sinan Salaheddin The Associated Press October 7th, 2005


The 22 bodies, lined up in coffins in a mosque courtyard Friday, are as shriveled as ancient mummies after lying a month in the desert where they were dumped, bound and bullet-ridden. They were Sunni Arabs, rounded up from their Baghdad homes one night by men in police uniforms.

Relatives and neighbors in mourning are convinced they were killed by government-linked Shiite death squads they say are behind corpses that turn up nearly every day in and around the capital - two more on Friday. Now some Sunnis are vowing to take action to protect themselves.

At least 539 bodies have been found since Iraq's interim government was formed April 28 - 204 in Baghdad - according to an Associated Press count. The identities of many are unknown, but 116 are known to be Sunnis, 43 Shiites and one Kurd. Some are likely victims of crime - including kidnappings - rampant in some cities and as dangerous to Iraqis as political violence.

The count may be low since one or two bodies are found almost daily and are never reported


http://www.ivaw.net/index.php?id=176
 

stsburns

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Billo_Really said:
I have not read her book. But I have asked this question to myself many times. To date, I have not been satisfied by any of my answers. Maybe those more knowledgable than I can offer their suggestions on the best way to honor our troops who are fighting a war that should never have been.

I don't care (in this thread) how we got here. I do care (in this thread) what do we do now to honor those that have fallen and the ones still in harms way. Like I said, I don't have any answers for this one. But I am ready to listen.
"Death is as sure for that which is born, as birth is for that which is dead. Therefore grieve not for what is inevitable."
-Bhagavad Gita
 

stsburns

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Even Better:


”A military operation involves deception. Even though you are competent, appear to be incompetent. Though effective, appear to be ineffective.”
-Sun-tzu


I can't wait for your answer (excuse) on this one! :mrgreen:
 

Billo_Really

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Originally posted by stsburns:
I can't wait for your answer (excuse) on this one!
You make absolutely no sense here. I have no comment on your last two posts.

I did notice you here when I logged on, but now your not. Did you run away?
 

Calm2Chaos

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Billo_Really said:
I'm sure there is good and bad going on. But the "bad" that is going on, is really bad!
Dead bodies in Iraq are nothing new. I have no idea and no proof in who is doing the killing. The difference is I don't expect it to become a utopia in a couple years. There is going to be bad going on, and there is going to be good. The balance is slowly starting to turn i think.
 

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Billo_Really well done m8 U have a Heart as BIG as the



USA

GOD BLESS U

MY KIND REGARDS

Mikeey
 

stsburns

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Billo_Really said:
You make absolutely no sense here. I have no comment on your last two posts.

I did notice you here when I logged on, but now your not. Did you run away?
Think, you can do it trust me! :monkey No, I didn't run away. I just don't set up my tent outside the webmasters house. :comp: I have other things to do with my life than debating people. But, hey it makes good practice. Thanks to debating against you I got an A on paper. :mrgreen:
 

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Billo_Really said:
You make absolutely no sense here. I have no comment on your last two posts.

I did notice you here when I logged on, but now your not. Did you run away?
About my post.

”A military operation involves deception. Even though you are competent, appear to be incompetent. Though effective, appear to be ineffective.”
-Sun-tzu

The qoute is about fooling your enemy. Appear to be stupid, but be smart. Much like the democrat party has portrayed Bush as stupid. But it doesn't mean he is. Now does it make sense. Or do I need to draw you a picture so you can color it in.
 
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Billo_Really

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Originally posted by stsburns:
About my post.

”A military operation involves deception. Even though you are competent, appear to be incompetent. Though effective, appear to be ineffective.”
-Sun-tzu

The qoute is about fooling your enemy. Appear to be stupid, but be smart. Much like the democrat party has portrayed Bush as stupid. But it doesn't mean he is. Now does it make sense. Or do I need to draw you a picture so you can color it in.
Pictures are nice.

I don't think Bush is stupid. I think he is a war criminal.
 

Billo_Really

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Originally posted by stsburns:
Think, you can do it trust me! No, I didn't run away. I just don't set up my tent outside the webmasters house. I have other things to do with my life than debating people. But, hey it makes good practice. Thanks to debating against you I got an A on paper
Does this mean you will finally get your long sought after Kindergarden degree?
 

Billo_Really

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Originally posted by Calm2Chaos:
Dead bodies in Iraq are nothing new. I have no idea and no proof in who is doing the killing. The difference is I don't expect it to become a utopia in a couple years. There is going to be bad going on, and there is going to be good. The balance is slowly starting to turn i think.
I realize we are not all bad and not all good. But given our technology, don't you think we are capable of taking the art of killing in conflict to a whole different level? And that it is not that far of a reach to think that some of that is manifesting itself in Iraq right now?
 

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Billo_Really said:
I realize we are not all bad and not all good. But given our technology, don't you think we are capable of taking the art of killing in conflict to a whole different level? And that it is not that far of a reach to think that some of that is manifesting itself in Iraq right now?
I think you want a war that cost nothing... But thats not a reality. Most things in life cost something, some more then others
 
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Billo_Really said:
Does this mean you will finally get your long sought after Kindergarden degree?
Classy. Good job, Bill. :roll:
 

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Billo_Really said:
Pictures are nice.

I don't think Bush is stupid. I think he is a war criminal.
And Clinton is a criminal of marriage?
 

stsburns

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Billo_Really said:
Does this mean you will finally get your long sought after Kindergarden degree?
Originally posted by stsburns:
Think, you can do it trust me! No, I didn't run away. I just don't set up my tent outside the webmasters house. I have other things to do with my life than debating people. But, hey it makes good practice. Thanks to debating against you I got an A on paper
Does this mean you will finally get your long sought after Kindergarden degree?
Is your brain for rent, or does it come with a free scrub. Because their are still soap suds in it the last time I checked. Sorry Bill I don't stalk the person who runs the website! Like you do!!!!!!
 
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