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Homosexuality - A choice?

JustineCredible

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Naughty Nurse said:
Hey, Justine, thanks for posting your story. It's a very sad, but all too common one.


Absolutely nobody would choose to go through that.

You know, it's really not all that sad. It all worked out and had and very happy ending...well at least thus far. I mean I'm very happy, have a wonderful and supportive family, good and loyal friends and the love of my life. Plus, and most importantly, I have my son.
Yeah, adolescence was a b*tch, but adulthood has worked out fairly well. Sure, we all go through really tough times, but the real winners are the one's who don't let those times destroy who they really are.
I have more battles to go through in my life. But I know that with the experence I have gained, I will be just fine...eventually. ;)
 

galenrox

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We'll see, but I'm pretty happy with my current lady. :smile:
 

faminedynasty

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I couldn't choose to be gay any more than I could choose to be black. Nothing against either group, I respect them, but I could not elect to be them. It is impossible.
 

JustineCredible

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faminedynasty said:
I couldn't choose to be gay any more than I could choose to be black. Nothing against either group, I respect them, but I could not elect to be them. It is impossible.

What's more is why would anyone want to choose to be hated, discriminated against, make themselves open to ridicule, firing from a job, denied housing, denied a safe place to learn (ie school ridicule), be beaten, spat at, or worse murdered...just for being gay?
I can't imagine who would willingly open themselves up to such things. I know I surely didn't choose to my sexuality. As I have stated many times before, I was never "conditioned" to become gay and even tried to pretend I wasn't for several years....I only made one choice and that was to be honest about my sexuality, not only to myself but to those I love.
 

Naughty Nurse

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Loki said:
Until someone comes up with a homosexual gene, I'll have to assume it's

choice.

Assume away, sweetness. Won't make it right!
 

MikeyC

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Loki said:
Until someone comes up with a homosexual gene, I'll have to assume it's

choice.
Are you heterosexual by choice? Or when you hit puberty were you just naturally noticing and becoming attracted to the opposite sex? I don't think there is a specific gene tied to it, just how your body chemicals end up reacting to certain situations. I'm sure some people are homosexual by choice and others are not. Bisexuals can't help but be attracted to both sexes. Either way, whether it's inborn or a choice, I still think both of those lifestyles should be protected under laws.
 

galenrox

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Loki said:
Until someone comes up with a homosexual gene, I'll have to assume it's

choice.
Remember when you assume you make an ass out of u and me
 

Mixed View

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What about the man with three kids and is married for twelve years and starts having homosexual feelings in the twelf year of marriage and leaves his family for men. How come those feelings didn't come earlier. He chose it.
This is a true story too. This guy used to work for my mom and stuff.
 

shuamort

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satanloveslibs said:
What about the man with three kids and is married for twelve years and starts having homosexual feelings in the twelf year of marriage and leaves his family for men. How come those feelings didn't come earlier. He chose it.
This is a true story too. This guy used to work for my mom and stuff.
So he chose to have a heterosexual facade because of the discrimination. He could also be bisexual or anywhere in the sexuality spectrum.
 

Loki

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shuamort said:

Very interesting, not quite a homosexual gene, it will be interesting to see

how this shapes up. I'm not opposed to the idea, it's just at this time I'll

have to come down on the side of learned behavior. It's also quite possible

that we being the complex creatures we are, perhaps, both ideas could be

factors. We still know so little about the human brain. :2razz:
 

Loki

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MikeyC said:
Are you heterosexual by choice? Or when you hit puberty were you just naturally noticing and becoming attracted to the opposite sex? I don't think there is a specific gene tied to it, just how your body chemicals end up reacting to certain situations. I'm sure some people are homosexual by choice and others are not. Bisexuals can't help but be attracted to both sexes. Either way, whether it's inborn or a choice, I still think both of those lifestyles should be protected under laws.

I believe we should all have the same protection under the law. I am

not a proponent for special rights.
 

Loki

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satanloveslibs said:
What about the man with three kids and is married for twelve years and starts having homosexual feelings in the twelf year of marriage and leaves his family for men. How come those feelings didn't come earlier. He chose it.
This is a true story too. This guy used to work for my mom and stuff.


One hell of a mid-life crisis? :mrgreen:
 

Kelzie

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Loki said:
I believe we should all have the same protection under the law. I am

not a proponent for special rights.

What special rights are gay people asking for?
 

Loki

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There has been a movement afoot for years to have hate crimes, intended to

protect minorities, expanded to include gays. I feel everyone who

commits a crime should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law

irregardless of sexual orientation, race, or religion of the victim.
 

shuamort

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Loki said:
There has been a movement afoot for years to have hate crimes, intended to

protect minorities, expanded to include gays. I feel everyone who

commits a crime should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law

irregardless of sexual orientation, race, or religion of the victim.
Agreed, a crime is a crime is a crime. There shouldn't be extra penalties based on the class of the victim.
 

JustineCredible

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shuamort said:
Agreed, a crime is a crime is a crime. There shouldn't be extra penalties based on the class of the victim.

The class of the victim is not what "hate crimes" laws are actually all about. To say so only over simplifies the crime itself. Hate crimes are crimes which impact an entire community. Crimes motivated by hate toward an entire community by an individual or group are "Hate Crimes."
A beating of a Jewish man impacts the entire Jewish community, serial rape impacts women of a locational community, murder of a gay man or lesbian impacts the entire gay community.
They are motivated by hate and are only intended to generate even more hate.
 

shuamort

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JustineCredible said:
The class of the victim is not what "hate crimes" laws are actually all about. To say so only over simplifies the crime itself. Hate crimes are crimes which impact an entire community. Crimes motivated by hate toward an entire community by an individual or group are "Hate Crimes."
A beating of a Jewish man impacts the entire Jewish community, serial rape impacts women of a locational community, murder of a gay man or lesbian impacts the entire gay community.
They are motivated by hate and are only intended to generate even more hate.
An action by a person against a victim only affects the victim. Someone having an abortion doesn't affect me. A wife beating up her husband doesn't affect me. The dragging of a black man behind a truck in Texas doesn't affect me.

That's not to say I'm apathetic, it's to say that the crime itself is heinous enough that the person should be prosecuted on that basis instead of their motivation. Would Oswald's guilt be any different if he did it on the basis of Kennedy's Catholicism? Would Matthew Shepard be any more alive if there were a hate crime law in Wyoming?
 

JustineCredible

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shuamort said:
An action by a person against a victim only affects the victim. Someone having an abortion doesn't affect me. A wife beating up her husband doesn't affect me. The dragging of a black man behind a truck in Texas doesn't affect me.

That's not to say I'm apathetic, it's to say that the crime itself is heinous enough that the person should be prosecuted on that basis instead of their motivation. Would Oswald's guilt be any different if he did it on the basis of Kennedy's Catholicism? Would Matthew Shepard be any more alive if there were a hate crime law in Wyoming?

Oswald's crime was not motivated by hatred of Catholicism.

As far as Mr. Shepard, murder is murder and no amount of punishment of the criminals will ever bring him back. To suggest so is simply childish and inane.
Matthews murder did indeed AFFECT the entire gay community, but it did not EFFECT me personally.
Serial rape doesn't EFFECT me unless I became a victim of the rapist in question. Does the rapist AFFECT all women living in the area, yes. It's quite noticeable. Women start wearing personal alarms, walking in numbers after dark and public transportation ridership goes down by women.
If a man screaming anti-Semitic epithets goes and stabs a Jewish man, an entire community is AFFECTED by this crime. A governmental leader who screams anti-Semitics from a podium affected millions of Jewish lives back in 1940's Germany.
 

shuamort

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JustineCredible said:
Oswald's crime was not motivated by hatred of Catholicism.
I never said it was. I asked if Oswald's guilt would be any different.

JustineCredible said:
As far as Mr. Shepard, murder is murder and no amount of punishment of the criminals will ever bring him back. To suggest so is simply childish and inane.
Matthews murder did indeed AFFECT the entire gay community, but it did not EFFECT me personally.
Well, as for the entire gay community being affected, since I am a "member" and I wasn't affected, then the statement isn't true. Moreover, there have been recent discoveries that show that the crime wasn't motivated by Shepard's sexual orientation, but by his drug use. No, do you still think it's childish and inane? Should we be making hate crime laws for drug users?

JustineCredible said:
Serial rape doesn't EFFECT me unless I became a victim of the rapist in question. Does the rapist AFFECT all women living in the area, yes. It's quite noticeable. Women start wearing personal alarms, walking in numbers after dark and public transportation ridership goes down by women.
If a man screaming anti-Semitic epithets goes and stabs a Jewish man, an entire community is AFFECTED by this crime. A governmental leader who screams anti-Semitics from a podium affected millions of Jewish lives back in 1940's Germany.
Does it make the crime any worse? If a serial killer randomly goes around killing people, does that make the victims less worth it than if they were all a sexual minority or of a different religious affiliation or a different skin color? No.
 

JustineCredible

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shuamort said:
I never said it was. I asked if Oswald's guilt would be any different.


Well, as for the entire gay community being affected, since I am a "member" and I wasn't affected, then the statement isn't true. Moreover, there have been recent discoveries that show that the crime wasn't motivated by Shepard's sexual orientation, but by his drug use. No, do you still think it's childish and inane? Should we be making hate crime laws for drug users?


Does it make the crime any worse? If a serial killer randomly goes around killing people, does that make the victims less worth it than if they were all a sexual minority or of a different religious affiliation or a different skin color? No.

Serial killers almost never kill randomly. They have a motivation to their killing, a pattern.
Hate crimes are similar in that there is a motivation inspired by a pathological hatred.
This is what separates Hate crimes from random crimes.

BTW: about the supposed drug issue of the Matthew Shepard case, I'm sorry, but I just don't give it a whole lot of credibility.
 

shuamort

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JustineCredible said:
Serial killers almost never kill randomly. They have a motivation to their killing, a pattern.
Hate crimes are similar in that there is a motivation inspired by a pathological hatred.
This is what separates Hate crimes from random crimes.
Let's take Jack the Ripper for instance then. He killed only prostitutes. Does that constitute a hate crime or not?


JustineCredible said:
BTW: about the supposed drug issue of the Matthew Shepard case, I'm sorry, but I just don't give it a whole lot of credibility.
I'm not sure either to be honest.
 
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The claim that homosexuals don't have a choice is the same claim alcoholics make.

The excuse for homosexual behavior is the genetic excuse, and the scam comes from a homosexual political and marketing strategy publication called "Overhauling Straight America".

Here is how they strategized to use the genetic excuse, exactly as is being used here by homosexuals:

Chapter 2: "The message must read: "As far as gays can tell, they were born gay, just as you were born heterosexual or white or black or bright or athletic. Nobody ever tricked or seduced them; they never made a choice, and are not morally blameworthy. What they do isn't willfully contrary - it's only natural for them. This twist of fate could as easily have happened to you!"
 
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