• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Homeschooled: How American Home Schoolers Measure Up

cpwill

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 20, 2009
Messages
64,722
Reaction score
33,058
Location
USofA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Fascinating, but not terribly surprising.


How American Homeschoolers Measure Up

...

[h=3]HOMESCHOOL GROWTH[/h]Home schooling is the fastest growing form of education in the country.

  • 1999: 850,000 homeschoolers (1.7% of the school-aged population)
  • 2003: 1.1 million homeschoolers (2.2% of the school-aged population)
  • 2007: 1.5 million homeschoolers (2.9% of the school-aged population)
  • 2010: 2.04 million homeschoolers (4% of the school-aged population)
  • From 2007- 2009 home-schoolers increased ate a rate of 7%/year
  • From 2007- 2009 public-schoolers increased at a rate of 1%/year
[h=3]HOMESCHOOL PARENTS[/h]Education Level of Homeschooling Parents (Fathers/Mothers)

  • No High School Degree: 1.4% / 0.5%
  • High School Degree: 8.4% / 7.5%
  • Some College: 15.4% / 18.7%
  • Associate's Degree: 8.6% / 10.8%
  • Bachelor's Degree: 37.6% / 48.4%
  • Master's Degree: 20% / 11.6%
  • Doctorate Degree: 8.7% / 2.5%
...

[h=3]HOMESCHOOL STUDENTS[/h]Standardized achievement tests: On average, homeschoolers rank in at the 87th percentile. (Note: The 87th percentile is not the test score. It is the percent of students that scored lower... so, only 13% of students scored higher.)

  • Boys: 87th
  • Girls: 88th
  • Reading: 89th
  • Language: 84th
  • Math: 84th
  • Science: 86th
  • Social Studies: 84th
  • Core: 88th
  • Parents income <$35,000: 85th
  • Parents income $35,000-$70,000: 86th
  • Parents income >$70,000: 89th
  • Parents spend <$600/child/year: 86th
  • Parents spend >$600/child/year: 89th
  • Neither parent has a college degree: 83rd
  • Either parent has a college degree: 86th
  • Both parents have college degrees: 90th
  • Neither parent has a teaching certificate: 87th
  • Either Parent has a teaching certificate: 88th

Grade Placement compared to public schools:


  • Behind: 5.4%
  • On track: 69.8%
  • Ahead: 24.5%
...

Homeschooled / General Population

  • Participate in an ongoing community service activity (71% / 37%)
  • Consider politics and government too complicated to understand (4.2% / 35%)
  • Read a book in the past six months? (98.5% / 69%)
  • Continue on to college (74% / 49%)
....


[h=3]HOMESCHOOL COST[/h]Average homeschool family spends $500/child/year.
The average public school spends $9,963 per child per year, not including capital expenditures or research and development.
 

lizzie

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 22, 2009
Messages
28,581
Reaction score
31,551
Location
between two worlds
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Libertarian
This is not at all surprising to me, and I'm glad to see some statistics on the issue. Across the board, every home-schooled kid that I know personally (probably more than the average Jane knows), exceeds expectations, and goes on to higher education and successful employment.
 

nota bene

Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
60,354
Reaction score
33,042
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Conservative
"Homeschooled students score about 72 points higher than the national average on the Scholastic Aptitude Test (SAT). The average American College Test (ACT) score is 21. The average score for homeschoolers is 22.8 out of a possible 36 points. Homeschoolers are at the 77th percentile on the Iowa Test of Basic Skills."

Do Homeschool Kids Really Rate Better on Standardized Tests?
 

Anagram

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 10, 2011
Messages
8,856
Reaction score
5,411
Location
St. Louis MO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
Unsurprising. I'm still wondering how homeschooling compares to non-homeschooling though overall. Homeschooled children tend to have the more aware and demanding parents who drive their children to do well. I wonder how homeschooled children would compare to children whose parents are similarly aware and demanding of their child but sends them to public or private school.
 

nota bene

Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
60,354
Reaction score
33,042
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Conservative
Unsurprising. I'm still wondering how homeschooling compares to non-homeschooling though overall. Homeschooled children tend to have the more aware and demanding parents who drive their children to do well. I wonder how homeschooled children would compare to children whose parents are similarly aware and demanding of their child but sends them to public or private school.
You'll find the article I linked interesting. I think it's generally true that parents who model eagerness to learn and who stress the value of education and supervise their kids are generally going to produce students who do well. But homeschooling offers opportunities for exceptional students at both ends of the spectrum.
 

Anagram

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 10, 2011
Messages
8,856
Reaction score
5,411
Location
St. Louis MO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
You'll find the article I linked interesting. I think it's generally true that parents who model eagerness to learn and who stress the value of education and supervise their kids are generally going to produce students who do well. But homeschooling offers opportunities for exceptional students at both ends of the spectrum.
That was very interesting thank you.

It's good to know that even when controlling for demographics, homeschoolers still score at much higher percentages than those otherwise. That's some strong evidence in favor, as well as their performance in non-testing areas shown at the bottom of the article.

It still didn't control for parenting style, and to me that would be probably the biggest influence on a child's performance. You can have high income, well educated parents who don't pay any attention to their child's performance in school and you can have low income, low educated parents who are heavily involved in their child's life and pushing them to have a better future. Homeschooled children's parents would likely be almost exclusively in the well involved category. I don't really know if its a possible to do a study controlling for something like parenting style, but I'd like to see the results of that. Based on what your article and Cpwill's, I think there's pretty good evidence that homeschooling provides significant benefits, but I wouldn't say its conclusive.
 

Boo Radley

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 20, 2009
Messages
37,066
Reaction score
7,028
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
"Homeschooled students score about 72 points higher than the national average on the Scholastic Aptitude Test (SAT). The average American College Test (ACT) score is 21. The average score for homeschoolers is 22.8 out of a possible 36 points. Homeschoolers are at the 77th percentile on the Iowa Test of Basic Skills."

Do Homeschool Kids Really Rate Better on Standardized Tests?
From the same link:

Students who take these tests are self-selecting, so we don't know if homeschoolers overall are doing better than other students. But all SAT and ACT takers are self-selecting regardless of how they were schooled. However, there is no way to know if homeschoolers are taking these tests at a lower or higher rate than public or private school students.


If broken down by demographics, homeschoolers may not fare so well. Homeschoolers tend to come from higher earning and better educated families, which may account for the higher scores.


Sampling is sometimes done to compare homeschoolers to public school students. Critics point out that successful homeschooling parents may be more likely to allow their children to be tested than less successful homeschoolers.
 

Paschendale

Uncanny
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 3, 2010
Messages
12,510
Reaction score
12,604
Location
New York City
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Socialist
And a whole lot of them are brainwashed into fundamentalist religion, harming them for decades. Keeping children out of school and never exposing them to a single dissenting viewpoint from their extreme religious beliefs has been a powerful tool to allow fundamentalists to abuse innocent children's minds.

It's also very funny how often conservatives attempt to discredit standardized testing, except when it suits their purposes. But it's sad how far they'll go to push insulated religious mentalities on children.
 

the_recruit

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 30, 2011
Messages
4,207
Reaction score
2,615
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I think the statistics are being misinterpreted.

I don't believe it's the home-schooling that makes home-schooled kids more successful (academically). I'd bet the farm the correlation is rather that kids that are home-schooled are more likely to have good parents that give a ****. The real key is that good parenting, not so much the home-schooling. In other words, the home-schooled kids would probably end up being roughly as successful even if they attended a public school.

To truly compare the performance of public-schooling to home-schooling the study would have to isolate the good-parent-factor, which is not necessarily easy to do. I'd bet there would still be a significant correlation, but it'd be vastly weaker.
 

TiredOfLife

Banned
Joined
Jul 31, 2013
Messages
2,817
Reaction score
582
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
I think the statistics are being misinterpreted.

I don't believe it's the home-schooling that makes home-schooled kids more successful (academically). I'd bet the farm the correlation is rather that kids that are home-schooled are more likely to have good parents that give a ****. The real key is that good parenting, not so much the home-schooling. In other words, the home-schooled kids would probably end up being roughly as successful even if they attended a public school.

To truly compare the performance of public-schooling to home-schooling the study would have to isolate the good-parent-factor, which is not necessarily easy to do. I'd bet there would still be a significant correlation, but it'd be vastly weaker.
A one to one or one to two or three teacher to student ratio? I sure as hell hope they are doing better on the homework. Then again, that's not the only reason we send kids to school.
 

the_recruit

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 30, 2011
Messages
4,207
Reaction score
2,615
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
And a whole lot of them are brainwashed into fundamentalist religion, harming them for decades. Keeping children out of school and never exposing them to a single dissenting viewpoint from their extreme religious beliefs has been a powerful tool to allow fundamentalists to abuse innocent children's minds.
That's just like your opinion man.

There's a pile of hard data in front of you showing that homeschooled kids end up quite successful. Do you have any data supporting your claims of harm?

Anecdotally, all the homeschooled kids I knew were religious, but not in a bad way. They all seemed decent and well-adjusted, albeit socially-awkward as ****.
 

the_recruit

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 30, 2011
Messages
4,207
Reaction score
2,615
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
A one to one or one to two or three teacher to student ratio? I sure as hell hope they are doing better on the homework.
As I said, even accounting for the good-parent-factor I'd predict a correlation, primarily for the reason you just stated.

But, even so, I think that whatever benefits of homeschooling may exist, those benefits are only reproducible by a relatively small percent of parents. I think the vast majority of parents are hopelessly unqualified to teach their kids high school material. If everybody switched to homeschooling tomorrow, I think a small percentage of children would benefit and a much larger percentage would end up with a lousier education.
 

Boo Radley

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 20, 2009
Messages
37,066
Reaction score
7,028
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
As I said, even accounting for the good-parent-factor I'd predict a correlation, primarily for the reason you just stated.

But, even so, I think that whatever benefits of homeschooling may exist, those benefits are only reproducible by a relatively small percent of parents. I think the vast majority of parents are hopelessly unqualified to teach their kids high school material. If everybody switched to homeschooling tomorrow, I think a small percentage of children would benefit and a much larger percentage would end up with a lousier education.
That's the point. There are just a limited number who can repeat the success. I'm not opposed to home schooling for those capable. But the results would be very different if everyone homeschooled their children. So, it is not truly valid to compare limited segments with the overall population.
 

nota bene

Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
60,354
Reaction score
33,042
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Conservative
Then why not simply look at the rates of college success?
 

Paschendale

Uncanny
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 3, 2010
Messages
12,510
Reaction score
12,604
Location
New York City
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Socialist
That's just like your opinion man.

There's a pile of hard data in front of you showing that homeschooled kids end up quite successful. Do you have any data supporting your claims of harm?

Anecdotally, all the homeschooled kids I knew were religious, but not in a bad way. They all seemed decent and well-adjusted, albeit socially-awkward as ****.
I wasn't suggesting that they all turn into serial murderers. But it does close their minds to a lot of elements of modern society, and lead them to make choices from a place of ignorance, which is bad for them, and bad for the rest of us when they exercise political power. An ignorant population is a weak one.
 

Baralis

DP Veteran
Joined
May 23, 2009
Messages
2,400
Reaction score
1,551
Location
MO
Political Leaning
Independent
Just a couple of my own experiences with the public school system.

In my youth I was a bit of a trouble maker and often found myself in some sort of punishment. Our school system had a "alternative" school where troublesome students were sent. It was more of a punishment facility that practiced corporal punishment and was staffed by a single former drill sergeant which was the "alternative" school principle. No teachers taught at this facility and all lessons were sent over by your teacher weekly. One year just a couple months short of summer break I had found myself in trouble again and sent to the alternative school for the remainder of the season. My teachers sent over my assignments and school work. I found I was able to complete a typical school days worth of work in under 1.5 hours. That made me wonder why it was taking 7 hours to do 1.5 or less worth of schoolwork. It made me realize just how inefficient the school system really was. I mean at that rate I should have been finished with our high school education by the time I left elementary school.



Being the troublesome student that I was my parents decided to enroll me into a private school that taught in unorthodox (at least in comparison to public schools) method for a year to see if it helped me. After attending a private school for one year I was tested prior to being allowed back into the public system by the state. My tests showed that during that one year I had advanced 3 years by public school system standards. Sadly due to my prior history of trouble they were against me skipping a grade or two and wanted to see how I now performed with my peers.
 

the_recruit

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 30, 2011
Messages
4,207
Reaction score
2,615
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I wasn't suggesting that they all turn into serial murderers. But it does close their minds to a lot of elements of modern society, and lead them to make choices from a place of ignorance, which is bad for them, and bad for the rest of us when they exercise political power. An ignorant population is a weak one.
I think you're making some assumptions here. What exactly do you think home-schooled kids aren't being taught that public-school kids are? To what are home-schooled kids' minds closed? I'm speaking generally - of course there are probably cases of home-schooled kids being brainwashed and kept ignorant of reality. But I find it unlikely that's the rule rather than the exception.
 

Paschendale

Uncanny
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 3, 2010
Messages
12,510
Reaction score
12,604
Location
New York City
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Socialist
I think you're making some assumptions here. What exactly do you think home-schooled kids aren't being taught that public-school kids are? To what are home-schooled kids' minds closed? I'm speaking generally - of course there are probably cases of home-schooled kids being brainwashed and kept ignorant of reality. But I find it unlikely that's the rule rather than the exception.
On the contrary, homeschooling has been widely embraced by the fringe religious sects. Raising kids in a bubble in order to better indoctrinate them into religious extremism is their tactic. Few others embrace homeschooling like that. Sure, other people could. But they don't. The results are kids who enter the adult world never having been exposed to secular thinking (the view of most people) and often end up as sexual bigots, against gays and women alike. The same kids are often woefully ignorant of science and medicine. But the main thing they do not learn growing up is how to function around people with different opinions. That's what happens when you're raised in a bubble surrounded only by people who all agree with each other.
 

KevinKohler

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 4, 2011
Messages
21,956
Reaction score
9,986
Location
CT
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
A one to one or one to two or three teacher to student ratio? I sure as hell hope they are doing better on the homework. Then again, that's not the only reason we send kids to school.
Yeah. We send them to school so we can go to work.
 

nota bene

Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
60,354
Reaction score
33,042
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Conservative
Sometimes, that's true...but it's generally a myth that homeschooled kids aren't "enculturated."
 

TiredOfLife

Banned
Joined
Jul 31, 2013
Messages
2,817
Reaction score
582
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Yeah. We send them to school so we can go to work.
Among other things. And their days should be longer than ours. Run those little monsters around the track so they are tired and ready for bed. Let's have a little peace and quiet around here. I'd also make sure that they were fed, had clean clothes, took a shower, and did their homework. Think of how much work we could get done if the schools acted like their legal standing, In Loco Parentis.
 

KevinKohler

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 4, 2011
Messages
21,956
Reaction score
9,986
Location
CT
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Just a couple of my own experiences with the public school system.

In my youth I was a bit of a trouble maker and often found myself in some sort of punishment. Our school system had a "alternative" school where troublesome students were sent. It was more of a punishment facility that practiced corporal punishment and was staffed by a single former drill sergeant which was the "alternative" school principle. No teachers taught at this facility and all lessons were sent over by your teacher weekly. One year just a couple months short of summer break I had found myself in trouble again and sent to the alternative school for the remainder of the season. My teachers sent over my assignments and school work. I found I was able to complete a typical school days worth of work in under 1.5 hours. That made me wonder why it was taking 7 hours to do 1.5 or less worth of schoolwork. It made me realize just how inefficient the school system really was. I mean at that rate I should have been finished with our high school education by the time I left elementary school.



Being the troublesome student that I was my parents decided to enroll me into a private school that taught in unorthodox (at least in comparison to public schools) method for a year to see if it helped me. After attending a private school for one year I was tested prior to being allowed back into the public system by the state. My tests showed that during that one year I had advanced 3 years by public school system standards. Sadly due to my prior history of trouble they were against me skipping a grade or two and wanted to see how I now performed with my peers.
It takes 8 hours because that's the average shift parents work.
 

Baralis

DP Veteran
Joined
May 23, 2009
Messages
2,400
Reaction score
1,551
Location
MO
Political Leaning
Independent
It takes 8 hours because that's the average shift parents work.
I can understand that but why are we wasting the majority of that time by being so inefficient with it? Imagine that during that 8 hours we learned and worked for 8 hours instead of in my experience 1.5 hours.
 

KevinKohler

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 4, 2011
Messages
21,956
Reaction score
9,986
Location
CT
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I can understand that but why are we wasting the majority of that time by being so inefficient with it? Imagine that during that 8 hours we learned and worked for 8 hours instead of in my experience 1.5 hours.
Tenure.
 

nota bene

Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
60,354
Reaction score
33,042
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Conservative
I can understand that but why are we wasting the majority of that time by being so inefficient with it? Imagine that during that 8 hours we learned and worked for 8 hours instead of in my experience 1.5 hours.
Well, that's a good point. There are quite a few 15 and 16-year olds who were homeschooled who are in college and doing well.
 
Top Bottom