Homeless Man Evicted Under Patriot Act

[Naughty Nurse]

Didn't ask you to apologize, now did I? Be a good boy and just iggy the sniveling little twit. :Oopsie {did I just say that outloud?...bad me}

Ooh, mother! :shock:

 

[Fantasea]

Yes, Fantasea, we're well aware...DUH. Gods, can we say "EGO TRIP?"

If you know how to fix the problem, why do you simply moan about it?

...Scr*w your war effort, I want no part of it and will not allow BU **** to steal my son away for his illegal war!

You make it seem as if your son will be conscripted. Of course you know very well that this is not the case. So why do you drag this red herring across the trail?

 

[Fantasea]

But the homeless never get charged with that. And what they do get charged with is loitering, which is only illegal in front of businesses or places where business is done. That doesn't apply here. Go to homeless court every once and a while and you will see that these people aren't out there because they choose to be as you said. They are desperate, they are sometimes insane, they are veterans, they are people that just aren't cared for. Work at a homeless shelter, do something, and see that these people aren't worthless as you seem to think.

First, I don't think that any person is worthless. Every human being is worthy.

In this day and age in the US, there is no excuse for 'the homeless' except that they make a nice constituency for the social-lib-dems to champion. The Great Society programs instituted in the Lyndon Johnson era were supposed to eradicate poverty. Forty years and who knows how many trillions of tax dollars later, we hear the socialist-lib-dems still moaning that something must be done to eradicate poverty.

In truth, they need the cause of poverty. If it goes away, then who needs them?

The best thing that ever happened to 'poor people' was when Bill Clinton, after vetoing it twice, finally signed the welfare reform legislation jammed down his throat by Newt Gingrich. Millions of able-bodied but hopeless folks, stuck in the maze of generational welfare, who, left with the choice of taking the opportunity of 'joining the parade' as it were, or getting dropped off, elected to lift themselves out of the subsistence rut they lived in. Given hope and the promise of a brighter future, they are far better off making lives for themselves than they were living on government handouts.

The job is not finished and the socialist-lib-dem obstacles are difficult to overcome. So long as the saddest cases, the mentally disturbed, the disabled, the addicted, remain untreated; so long as the correctional facilities don't correct anything; so long as billions in medicare and medicaid funds are squandered, why would anyone expect to see an improvement in the lot of these unfortunate persons?

Their right to freedom allows them to ignore all efforts to help them. It does not, however, give them the right to be a public nuisance, regardless of the plaintive cries of the bleeding heart libs.

 

[ShamMol]

Have you worked with the homeless Fant? How bout on welfare? Ever slept with them on the street? It isn't a good life, and they certainly don't want it (except for some nutcases). I worked in a homelessness prevention law project in which we would help people who were being denied welfare for no reason get it. You know what I found out in that time-the system is inherently unfair. They were denying mothers Calworks because they didn't fill in one line right. They did some horrible things. This "reform" that was pushed through takes away mothers from their families every day. It isn't right to force a mother to work when they have a three year old at home and nobody to take care of it besides another kid who should be in school.

These people in Los Angeles are relegated to somewhere called skid row in which drugs are rampant and they can't get away from the lifestyle. They are forced to sleep on the street after waiting in line for one of 10000 beds which fill up quickly. That isn't because they want to be on the street, they don't have any other option. I saw children with mothers as young as infants without medical care when they had serious medical problems that the parents couldn't pay for. You have no idea the struggles most of these people go through each day just to survive. It may be nice for them where you live, it isn't where I do.

The efforts to help them don't get them back on their feet, they get them alive for one more day. They don't ignore that help, at least the sane ones. They are not a nuisance to anyone who cares about their fellow man. I am a bleeding heart liberal when it comes to them. Work on one of these projects fant, come to LA, I'll show you what it means to have no hope, no job, nothing, to be homeless.

 

[Fantasea]

Have you worked with the homeless Fant? How bout on welfare? Ever slept with them on the street? It isn't a good life, and they certainly don't want it (except for some nutcases). I worked in a homelessness prevention law project in which we would help people who were being denied welfare for no reason get it. You know what I found out in that time-the system is inherently unfair. They were denying mothers Calworks because they didn't fill in one line right. They did some horrible things. This "reform" that was pushed through takes away mothers from their families every day. It isn't right to force a mother to work when they have a three year old at home and nobody to take care of it besides another kid who should be in school.

These people in Los Angeles are relegated to somewhere called skid row in which drugs are rampant and they can't get away from the lifestyle. They are forced to sleep on the street after waiting in line for one of 10000 beds which fill up quickly. That isn't because they want to be on the street, they don't have any other option. I saw children with mothers as young as infants without medical care when they had serious medical problems that the parents couldn't pay for. You have no idea the struggles most of these people go through each day just to survive. It may be nice for them where you live, it isn't where I do.

The efforts to help them don't get them back on their feet, they get them alive for one more day. They don't ignore that help, at least the sane ones. They are not a nuisance to anyone who cares about their fellow man. I am a bleeding heart liberal when it comes to them. Work on one of these projects fant, come to LA, I'll show you what it means to have no hope, no job, nothing, to be homeless.

With the exception of physical or mental handicap, the position in which folks find themselves is the sum total of the results of all of the voluntary decisions they have made to date.

You may say that this is a cold, callous, cruel statement. What you cannot say is that it is incorrect.

I would venture that the vast majority are undereducated, perhaps even illiterate native borns who chose to eschew the same educational opportunities which make immigrants who, upon arrival can't speak a word of English, successful, contributing members of their communities.

What percentage have been involved in criminal activities of one kind or another? Did they use their jail time to better themselves or did they just hook up with the inside mob?

What percentage are druggies who refuse treatment which is available?

If all of the illegal immigrants can make do with "the jobs that Americans won't take", perhaps these folks would be better off if they displaced a few of the illegals.

You cite the single mother. How did she get to become a single mother? Why is it that millions of other single mothers are in the work force and not part of your statistics?

A few generations ago, when all of the "help" was not available, it seems that people did not need very much help. They helped themselves, didn't they? Even during the worst of the depression, when the official unemployment rate
was in excess of 20%, crime rates were at their lowest and people banded together for their mutual good.

If you want to reduce the problem, motivate the folks who are able to supplement their 'entitlements' with some effort of their own. Lifetime handouts never solved a single problem.

 

[ShamMol]

With the exception of physical or mental handicap, the position in which folks find themselves is the sum total of the results of all of the voluntary decisions they have made to date.

You may say that this is a cold, callous, cruel statement. What you cannot say is that it is incorrect.

Actually I can say it is incorrect, which it is. People in America are on average two paychecks from being off the streets. Scary thought, isn't it. If someone gets fired and they can't find a job, buh-bye appartment. They are on the street. I have seen this happen numerous times.

I would venture that the vast majority are undereducated, perhaps even illiterate native borns who chose to eschew the same educational opportunities which make immigrants who, upon arrival can't speak a word of English, successful, contributing members of their communities.

You might venture to be wrong. I have met people with JDs, BAs, most with a high school education, so you are wrong.

What percentage have been involved in criminal activities of one kind or another? Did they use their jail time to better themselves or did they just hook up with the inside mob?

In Cali, you basically can't better yourself in jail. It is a festering cesspool of evil that basically requires you to fight for survival each day. Most of the people do not deny stealing to stay alive, but actually, the majority that are on the streets are not criminals.

What percentage are druggies who refuse treatment which is available?

Don't know the stats. But a lot become drug addicts on the street.

If all of the illegal immigrants can make do with "the jobs that Americans won't take", perhaps these folks would be better off if they displaced a few of the illegals.

Perhaps, but the illegals are making below minimum wage the vast majority of the time and the standard of living for a single person in los angeles is 800 dollars. So, that might be a little hard to do.

You cite the single mother. How did she get to become a single mother? Why is it that millions of other single mothers are in the work force and not part of your statistics?

Because these ones caught bad breaks, had some unexpected medical bill, had something come up. That is why they are there. They weren't the lucky ones, and that is why CalWorks was created...just not used correctly. Calworks gives 600 dollars instead of the 221 that welfare (impossible to live on btw) gives which is why it is so beneficial, plus it has a 3/5 program, so to stop people who stay on for the hell of it. Calworks is also really good because it gets medical care to the kids even when the mother is off of it. That is why it angers me so much when it is denied to mothers who desperately need it for themselves, and more importantly, their children.

A few generations ago, when all of the "help" was not available, it seems that people did not need very much help. They helped themselves, didn't they? Even during the worst of the depression, when the official unemployment rate
was in excess of 20%, crime rates were at their lowest and people banded together for their mutual good.

I wouldn't know. I am not as old as you are. But my grandparents who were around at the time and homeless for a little while before my grandfather finished his jd might beg to differ.

If you want to reduce the problem, motivate the folks who are able to supplement their 'entitlements' with some effort of their own. Lifetime handouts never solved a single problem.

This entitlement, now requires work. So, that word is wrong. This entitlement shouldn't require work, but instead, only require job training so that they can get jobs that actualy support them and not jobs at wendy's (besides, wendys won't hire anyone who actually needs it, they only want temporary people who they can let go).

You see them as a burden, when they are some of the nicest and neediest people out there. Take my advice fant, work for a homelessness prevention project, do a law one and see what welfare is really about, I beg of you. Spend a night out on the streets, talk to these people, you may see a different story. Some of them are there because of personal choice (drug use, etc) but others are just like you, they just caught a lot of bad breaks.

 

[JustineCredible]

If you know how to fix the problem, why do you simply moan about it?

Is it a problem for you?

No? Then butt out. I wasn't "moaning" about it, I was simply stating a fact. Can't handle facts? Yes, we know this already. :rolleyes

You make it seem as if your son will be conscripted. Of course you know very well that this is not the case. So why do you drag this red herring across the trail?

Because you took the bait, hook, line and sinker.

Anyone who could see past the surface would realize I'm well aware that there will be no draft. But obviously you missed the little fact that there are still military recruiters in every high school just drooling at the chance to brainwash the kiddies.
...and before you get anymore bright ideas. NO, I was not recruited right out of high school and hold no resentment to those who did recruit me.
I'm speaking of more recent events.

Oh, and yes, I most certainly do have room to talk. My ex-husband is the newest putz the Virginia Army National Guard swooped up to take over for the embarrassment they had to fire due to the high school kid who broke the controversial story!

 

[Fantasea]

Actually I can say it is incorrect, which it is. People in America are on average two paychecks from being off the streets. Scary thought, isn't it. If someone gets fired and they can't find a job, buh-bye appartment. They are on the street. I have seen this happen numerous times.
You might venture to be wrong. I have met people with JDs, BAs, most with a high school education, so you are wrong.
In Cali, you basically can't better yourself in jail. It is a festering cesspool of evil that basically requires you to fight for survival each day. Most of the people do not deny stealing to stay alive, but actually, the majority that are on the streets are not criminals.
Don't know the stats. But a lot become drug addicts on the street.
Perhaps, but the illegals are making below minimum wage the vast majority of the time and the standard of living for a single person in los angeles is 800 dollars. So, that might be a little hard to do.
Because these ones caught bad breaks, had some unexpected medical bill, had something come up. That is why they are there. They weren't the lucky ones, and that is why CalWorks was created...just not used correctly. Calworks gives 600 dollars instead of the 221 that welfare (impossible to live on btw) gives which is why it is so beneficial, plus it has a 3/5 program, so to stop people who stay on for the hell of it. Calworks is also really good because it gets medical care to the kids even when the mother is off of it. That is why it angers me so much when it is denied to mothers who desperately need it for themselves, and more importantly, their children.
I wouldn't know. I am not as old as you are. But my grandparents who were around at the time and homeless for a little while before my grandfather finished his jd might beg to differ.
This entitlement, now requires work. So, that word is wrong. This entitlement shouldn't require work, but instead, only require job training so that they can get jobs that actualy support them and not jobs at wendy's (besides, wendys won't hire anyone who actually needs it, they only want temporary people who they can let go).

You see them as a burden, when they are some of the nicest and neediest people out there. Take my advice fant, work for a homelessness prevention project, do a law one and see what welfare is really about, I beg of you. Spend a night out on the streets, talk to these people, you may see a different story. Some of them are there because of personal choice (drug use, etc) but others are just like you, they just caught a lot of bad breaks.

The bleeding heart liberals with their Great Society programs created the problem by destroying the incentive to learn and work. They institutionalized generational welfare and convinced millions of folks that the correct vote every election day would ensure a free ride for life. They conceived the idea of youthful emancipation whereby a teenager could divorce, as it were, her family and have the welfare agency set her up in her own apartment and pay her by the child. The more kids, the bigger the check. Wow! Is this the promised land, or what?

No more welfare -- the politically correct euphemism is entitlements for clients. What's not to like? Why bother with responsibility?

We're now reaping what was sown for many years. We spend a national average of more than $10,000 a year per head for K-12 education and can't teach kids to read. The drop out rate is horrendous. The waste of lives is atrocious.

You can rationalize anything you wish. What you can't do is come up with a workable solution to solve the problem of people who live in misery. And the reason you can't do it is that instilling responsibility has been determined by activist judges as an infringment of the rights of the entitlement clients. So, the problem and its core constituency continues to fester.

 

[JustineCredible]

Have you worked with the homeless Fant? How bout on welfare? Ever slept with them on the street? It isn't a good life, and they certainly don't want it (except for some nutcases). I worked in a homelessness prevention law project in which we would help people who were being denied welfare for no reason get it. You know what I found out in that time-the system is inherently unfair. They were denying mothers Calworks because they didn't fill in one line right. They did some horrible things. This "reform" that was pushed through takes away mothers from their families every day. It isn't right to force a mother to work when they have a three year old at home and nobody to take care of it besides another kid who should be in school.

These people in Los Angeles are relegated to somewhere called skid row in which drugs are rampant and they can't get away from the lifestyle. They are forced to sleep on the street after waiting in line for one of 10000 beds which fill up quickly. That isn't because they want to be on the street, they don't have any other option. I saw children with mothers as young as infants without medical care when they had serious medical problems that the parents couldn't pay for. You have no idea the struggles most of these people go through each day just to survive. It may be nice for them where you live, it isn't where I do.

The efforts to help them don't get them back on their feet, they get them alive for one more day. They don't ignore that help, at least the sane ones. They are not a nuisance to anyone who cares about their fellow man. I am a bleeding heart liberal when it comes to them. Work on one of these projects fant, come to LA, I'll show you what it means to have no hope, no job, nothing, to be homeless.

Oh, hell I would even let her come here to the Yuppy mid-west, in a predominantly affluent area, where our homeless go unseen and uncared for. There's no public aid close enough these people can get to because they don't have the money for the trans-county bus. The can't get to free medical care, same reason. They can't get shelter because my area thinks they don't exist and shelters aren't needed here.

There is one shelter, but it's for abused mothers only. Be a single homeless man or even woman with no dependents and your SOL.
I used to work part-time in a local book store over the winter. There were five homeless folks who would come in and just spend the day there, trying to keep warm and dry. Thankfully we had a cafe attached and a cafe manager who would do what she could to feed them as well.
Of these folks, three were older middle aged men, one I think had a mental disorder: and two were women. One of the men and one of the women were actually quite nice. They actually helped out a bit around the store. But they had no address and no phone number where they could be reached. So, our store, which was one of those god-awful chains, wasn't able to give them jobs. Even if the store was able to, they didn't pay an actual living wage.

It's just criminal what these folks have to go through. They're ignored, spat at, insulted and harassed all the time. The jerks who've recently taken over this once quiet area are all upwardly mobile DINKs with more money than sense, let alone compassion.
All these people want is a chance, not just constant hand-outs, but a real fighting chance. A living wage, a safe place to lay their heads, available public transportation that runs more than once every two hours and only during "business" hours.

But it's the program funding cuts by the Ultra-cons that have nearly destroyed the programs set up by Johnson.
Without money to run, to hire, to train, to man phones, to train the patrons, to provide medical care and housing...you're damned right us bleeding-heart libs will indeed keep making noise about it.....get used to it. Until something substantial is done and maintained it's a noise you will continue to hear grow louder and louder!

 

[ALiberalModerate]

It isn't right to force a mother to work when they have a three year old at home and nobody to take care of it besides another kid who should be in school.

I guess I am somewhere between the Republican “everyone for himself, lets make sure our rich trust fund baby contributors get every cent in corporate welfare and tax breaks we can get through congress” and the Liberal Democrat “welfare for not only those unable to work, but also for those unwilling to work” mentalities.

I am a firm believer that in two of FDR’s principles:

“Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle." –FDR

"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much it is whether we provide enough for those who have little." -FDR

By those two principles, FDR did not mean that we should provide for those unwilling to work or for those who continually make stupid decisions, but rather for those who are willing to work but are having a hard time getting by. There will always be a percentage of the population that pretty much has it made, and a percentage of the population that really tries, but for a time has a hard time getting by and providing for their families. It’s our responsibility as a civilized society to provide a safety net for those in the later group.

However, I don’t think that includes letting you stay at home and live off of the taxpayer just because you want to stay home to take care of your kids. You should think of that before you had them. Look, I grew up poor. After my mother and father divorced, my mother worked 2 jobs to support us and hung wallpaper on top of those. Sometimes it would seem that she would go several weeks, sometimes months it seemed, before she had a day off. We never took a dime from the government. If you can’t afford to support your family with one job, take a second one. Don’t get me wrong, we should do a lot more to help poor families afford childcare, but that is where the focus should be. Welfare is short term help, not a way to get out of being a productive member of society. Of course a lot of blame for this goes to the right wingers, if it were not for them, contraceptives use would be taught a lot more in school (as well as making them available to high school age students) and you would not have nearly as many mothers would several kids by several different dads. Just the same, if you cant do it with one job, take a second one.

 

[akyron]

You may either find this outrageous, are neutral or get a kick out of it.
Source

Frankly, this case is kinda interesting insofar as it might be a great legal challenge to the Patriot Act which hasn't really been done effectively. I bet that the court gets amicus curiae briefs like crazy from the Justice Dept. saying to rule that in this case alone it is unconstitution, but that it has no bearing whatsoever on other cases. Just my bet..

I have been there and I guess one can stretch olfactory assault to terrorism.

 

[ShamMol]

The bleeding heart liberals with their Great Society programs created the problem by destroying the incentive to learn and work. They institutionalized generational welfare and convinced millions of folks that the correct vote every election day would ensure a free ride for life. They conceived the idea of youthful emancipation whereby a teenager could divorce, as it were, her family and have the welfare agency set her up in her own apartment and pay her by the child. The more kids, the bigger the check. Wow! Is this the promised land, or what?

No more welfare -- the politically correct euphemism is entitlements for clients. What's not to like? Why bother with responsibility?

We're now reaping what was sown for many years. We spend a national average of more than $10,000 a year per head for K-12 education and can't teach kids to read. The drop out rate is horrendous. The waste of lives is atrocious.

You can rationalize anything you wish. What you can't do is come up with a workable solution to solve the problem of people who live in misery. And the reason you can't do it is that instilling responsibility has been determined by activist judges as an infringment of the rights of the entitlement clients. So, the problem and its core constituency continues to fester.

Please take my advice Fant, just so you can realize that these people aren't worthless or lazy. They are people, some mentally insane, some laden with drugs, some just sol. The ones that need saving are those who can be saved.

Don't talk to me about the god damn welfare system like I am an infant. I teach it to law students. SSI is what the mentally handicapped need. But you know what happens when they apply? No? You don't? They are basically kicked to the curb most of the time in LA. They go to the "doctor" for a diagnosis and when they get there, the doctor will ask them to raise their right had or do a jumping jack and they are declared fit and not insane. Talk about a great system. The people who can't work are told that they are fit to. Not only that, but if they "pass" the doctor's test, they have to fill out paper work like there is no tomorrow. But sometimes, they aren't given aid in doing so, even though they are not capable most of the time of descerning what to put down. That is actually where I come in, but most of the time, they don't call and just leave them by themselves to fail the paperwork and then be kicked right back out of the system.

CalWorks is for mothers. You know them? The people who were either unwed mothers or got completely screwed by their husbands? Yeah, them. I was at an office where a woman brought in her kids and that wasn't proof to them that she had them. Great system. Honestly, when they expect a mother to live off 661 dollars a month and then expect her to work 20 hours for them in return, it is not feasible, especially if they work another job. But hey, at least the firm I work for lobbied them to change that to having a job in general. Score one for us.

Welfare, the bottom of the barrel. I will ask you one question Fant, how much do they get a month not to work? Can you even guess? This may help, a minimum wage person earns it in about 4 days. Yeah, that is how much they live on a month. You want to tell me taht is possible? In a city that has a scol of 800 something?

It is an entitlement program, hence the name. Just as unemployment is. Just as medicaid is. People out there who are desperate depend on it. It isn't that they don't want to work, they need it to survive. They can't go out and interview for a job, honestly, some can't. Can you guess why? They smell, they don't have anything decent to wear, they haven't brushed their teeth in ages-and I garuntee you that is not by choice. It is a myth that these people can just walk off the street anytime they want to.

I will repeat it again. The average American is two paychecks away from living on the streets. You mentioned that the liberals wanted to destroy the want to learn and work. In our welfare system now, there is no job training, just picking up trash and doing menial labor. Teach them to fish, and they will become fishmen. Teach them to pick up trash, and they will pick up cans the rest of their lives trying to survive.

You want to reform our schools? Great! Learning is the first step to being self-sufficient. But, I have met people on the streets who have jd's, ba's, high school diplomas who can read and write probably better than I. Education isn't the key, but it is a rung in the ladder.

 

[ShamMol]

I agree with you SouthernDemocrat on a lot of what you said. But it basically only applies to those who already have jobs. Once you have lost a job and you are on the street, it is very hard just to get up and walk into a place and interview. You smell, you look bad, and no good manager wants that in an employee. Don't get me wrong, I wish America was like that where someone could walk off the street and get a job that paid a living wage.

However, those who are most needy are not getting the care they require growing up. We should do more to insure that kids get the medical care they require growing up, and I don't think there is anyone out there, save the most anti-big government would argue.

 

[Alex]

Laws do not abuse persons. They set out standards of unnaceptable conduct and enumerate penalties upon conviction.

You honestly believe that laws are not used to abuse people? What exactly is this tread about then? A man was remove from the subway using the Patriot Act. There is nothing to call this other than an abuse of that law. It was not its intent.

Personalities have no place in an objective discussion.

Ignoring the question because you have no logical answer has no place in an objective discussion.

I'm not a lawyer but I believe being a public nuisance is a misdemeanor.

Homeless people are not public nuisances. People that agree laws should be abused to remove them are.

 

[Fantasea]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fantasea
Laws do not abuse persons. They set out standards of unnaceptable conduct and enumerate penalties upon conviction.

You honestly believe that laws are not used to abuse people? What exactly is this tread about then? A man was remove from the subway using the Patriot Act. There is nothing to call this other than an abuse of that law. It was not its intent.

If you think about it, all laws which regulate behavior are simply an extension of the Golden Rule.

"Do unto others as you would have others do unto you; or else you will be subject to a penalty upon conviction of an infraction thereof."

Those who behave themselves don't run afoul of the law

.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fantasea
Personalities have no place in an objective discussion.

Ignoring the question because you have no logical answer has no place in an objective discussion.

"Objective" is fine. "Subjective" is out of place. The purpose is to discuss ideas not anecdotes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fantasea
I'm not a lawyer but I believe being a public nuisance is a misdemeanor.

Homeless people are not public nuisances. People that agree laws should be abused to remove them are

A "nuisance" is anything that works hurt, inconvenience or damage to another.

These days, the folks charged with keeping an eye on the safety of transportation facilities should not have to be hampered by people loitering where they don't belong.

 

[Alex]

If you think about it, all laws which regulate behavior are simply an extension of the Golden Rule.

"Do unto others as you would have others do unto you; or else you will be subject to a penalty upon conviction of an infraction thereof."

Those who behave themselves don't run afoul of the law"Objective" is fine. "Subjective" is out of place. The purpose is to discuss ideas not anecdotes.A "nuisance" is anything that works hurt, inconvenience or damage to another.

These days, the folks charged with keeping an eye on the safety of transportation facilities should not have to be hampered by people loitering where they don't belong.

Your ideologies work to hurt, inconvenience, and damage others. Should you be arrested? And you are still missing the point, so I have no choice but to assume that you yourself have no objective reasoning to answer it. The law was abused and used for an intend which it was not meant. If they wanted the man moved, why didn't they use another law to do it? Their misuse of the Patriot Act is corruption. Sleeping in a subway station is not misbehaving. What exactly does "Do unto others....." have to do with this? You are leading the thread into an unrelated direction. That only shows you have no reasoning for your posts. That is far from objective.

 

[Fantasea]

Your ideologies work to hurt, inconvenience, and damage others. Should you be arrested? And you are still missing the point, so I have no choice but to assume that you yourself have no objective reasoning to answer it. The law was abused and used for an intend which it was not meant. If they wanted the man moved, why didn't they use another law to do it? Their misuse of the Patriot Act is corruption. Sleeping in a subway station is not misbehaving. What exactly does "Do unto others....." have to do with this? You are leading the thread into an unrelated direction. That only shows you have no reasoning for your posts. That is far from objective.

It is evident that the person was told that he didn't belong in the railroad station and that he would either have to leave or be arrested, and that he made the latter choice. If the Patriot act includes provision for clearing out persons from a railroad station, I don't see any problem.

Of course, when some ambulance chasers get hold of an opportunity like this, they smell money and flog it for all it's worth. Hence the lawsuit which is another kind of nuisance.

 

[ShamMol]

^This has nothing to do with money. Absolutely nothing. Welcome to spin city.

There isn't a provision about clearing out homeless people or people in general from subway stations.

 

[Fantasea]

^This has nothing to do with money. Absolutely nothing. Welcome to spin city.

There isn't a provision about clearing out homeless people or people in general from subway stations.

If you don't believe this guy is making a fool of you, read on and see how deftly he is screwing all of us.

Read it slowly, carefully, closely. Savor each word and commit the whole experience indelibly to your memory so that the next time one of these scam artists comes your way, you won't get bitten in the a$$.

April 28, 2005
Richard Kreimer: The Man Who Stinks for a Living​

CBS 2 reports that Richard Kreimer, a derelict who shook down a town in New Jersey for a small fortune after being ejected from a library, is now suing a bus company, alleging that it refused to let him board buses. He already has another suit going against New Jersey Transit for allegedly not allowing him and other bums to make squatter settlements out of train stations.

In the bus suit, he claims that either buses won't stop for him, or they slam the door in his face after letting all the people who have taken a shower recently onto the bus. Pabco Transit's president denies allegations that the company has ever refused service to the homeless.

New Jersey Transit has declined to comment on its own case with Kreimer, who is evidently hoping to follow up on his big 1991 score, when he raked in $230,000 for smelling so bad as to get thrown out of a library in Morristown, NJ. That time Kreimer handed over half the loot to his lawyers. Wiser this time around, he is acting as his own attorney in both the New Jersey Transit and Pabco Transit shakedowns, so he can keep all the cash for himself.

In case anyone is the least bit tempted to feel sorry for this parasite, here's a little background:

Richard Kreimer grew up in a prosperous family and inherited money. He "embraced failure" according to former friends, many of whom he exploited by asking for emergency loans he never repaid. They attempted to help him get his life together and set up job interviews. He blew them off and started living in the streets, refusing to enter the local Market Street Mission program because of its "religious element."

He was part of a growing mob of derelicts who took over the Morristown library, causing librarians to quit in protest, complaining that they were constantly harassed on the job by street people, the aggressively disrespectful Kreimer in particular. In an attempt to take back the library for the taxpayers who financed it, the governing board barred people with offensive bodily hygiene and banned staring at other patrons.

Combining "the ego of a rock star with the vindictiveness of a Mafia don," Kreimer used some of the legal knowledge he had picked up at the library to strike back at civilization. The legal system, thoroughly infested with left-wing fools who can be counted on to side with lowlife against decent citizens, supported him throughout his campaign, until Morristown was finally forced to knuckle under and pay out.

"We knew that some of the cops stood to lose their homes to pay damages if we lost in court," says Kathleen O'Neill Margiotta, then town council president.

Flush with cash, Kreimer complained of being inundated by requests for loans. "But hey," he said. "I can't be a banker to every person on the street with a problem."

Now the money has been blown, and he's back for more, smelly, greedy, and obnoxious as ever.

This is the kind of guy who benefits when bleeding heart moonbattery gets out of control.

 

[shuamort]

Here's the link for Fantasea's quote.

 

[ShamMol]

As I have said, there are some people like taht, but not many.

The point stands in so much that this case ahs nothing to do with money.

 

[Naughty Nurse]

With the exception of physical or mental handicap, the position in which folks find themselves is the sum total of the results of all of the voluntary decisions they have made to date.

You may say that this is a cold, callous, cruel statement. What you cannot say is that it is incorrect.

I would venture that the vast majority are undereducated, perhaps even illiterate native borns who chose to eschew the same educational opportunities which make immigrants who, upon arrival can't speak a word of English, successful, contributing members of their communities.

What percentage have been involved in criminal activities of one kind or another? Did they use their jail time to better themselves or did they just hook up with the inside mob?

What percentage are druggies who refuse treatment which is available?

If all of the illegal immigrants can make do with "the jobs that Americans won't take", perhaps these folks would be better off if they displaced a few of the illegals.

You cite the single mother. How did she get to become a single mother? Why is it that millions of other single mothers are in the work force and not part of your statistics?

A few generations ago, when all of the "help" was not available, it seems that people did not need very much help. They helped themselves, didn't they? Even during the worst of the depression, when the official unemployment rate
was in excess of 20%, crime rates were at their lowest and people banded together for their mutual good.

If you want to reduce the problem, motivate the folks who are able to supplement their 'entitlements' with some effort of their own. Lifetime handouts never solved a single problem.

I hope your "god" isn't reading!

 

[JustineCredible]

Here's the link for Fantasea's quote.

Yeah, I checked out that site, it's an all out liberal hater site. It plays the :spin: card at every turn. Making seemingly ordinary take an extremist tone.

Oh, yeah, that's what I call hard hitting journalism, right up there with Faux Gnus. :shock: :bs

 

[Fantasea]

^This has nothing to do with money. Absolutely nothing. Welcome to spin city.

There isn't a provision about clearing out homeless people or people in general from subway stations.

This is an excerpt from post #1 in this thread. Smells like money to me. Not you?

Originally Posted by CNN.com
NEWARK, New Jersey (AP) -- The USA Patriot Act, in the name of fighting terrorism, allows the government to find out which books and Internet sites a person has seen. It lets investigators secretly search homes and monitor phone calls and e-mail.

Now, officials in the wealthy New York City suburb of Summit are using the law to justify forcing homeless people to leave a train station -- an action that sparked a $5 million federal lawsuit by a homeless man.

Richard Kreimer, who filed the lawsuit in March after being kicked out of the train station, said the Patriot Act defense makes no sense.

 

[Alex]

This is an excerpt from post #1 in this thread. Smells like money to me. Not you?

Originally Posted by CNN.com
NEWARK, New Jersey (AP) -- The USA Patriot Act, in the name of fighting terrorism, allows the government to find out which books and Internet sites a person has seen. It lets investigators secretly search homes and monitor phone calls and e-mail.

Now, officials in the wealthy New York City suburb of Summit are using the law to justify forcing homeless people to leave a train station -- an action that sparked a $5 million federal lawsuit by a homeless man.

Richard Kreimer, who filed the lawsuit in March after being kicked out of the train station, said the Patriot Act defense makes no sense.

So what if it is about money? The government should be penalized for abuse of the law. Its a good thing that there are people like him who will stand up against the government. I hope he wins.

With the exception of physical or mental handicap, the position in which folks find themselves is the sum total of the results of all of the voluntary decisions they have made to date.

You may say that this is a cold, callous, cruel statement. What you cannot say is that it is incorrect.

Exactly what does this prove? Nothing. Just because a person cannot say something is incorrect, does not make that something right. You say the Patriot Act was not abused and yet you cannot prove that it provides the government the right to evict people from subways. The Justice Department is even on the side of the homeless man. They say the Act was misused.