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Homeland security vs. your civil rights - 4th amendment

Mike.Redd

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With a 9 year old boy that was able to get onto a plane from Minnesota to Las Vegas you would think they would question homeland security and TSA a little more... If this child can clear all barriers who else can?

Also with the NSA we found out that no one is free from the spying they do on us. We have had our civil rights taken away from us. Not being able to use the internet, phones, and other forms of electronic communications with out thinking am i being watched right now? is just wrong.

Below is an portion of an article i read the other day.

The Fourth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution provides, “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures.” The amendment assures us that only when law enforcement has “probable cause” to suspect a person of a crime, may their space be violated.

Well, here’s a wake-up call, folks. For years now, and especially since Sept. 11, 2001, that most fundamental American right has been eroding. All across the nation, every single day armed officers with badges are stopping, interrogating, searching and detaining U.S. citizens with little or no explanation, or probable cause. This isn’t my America.

The time has come for law-abiding citizens to rise up and demand that law enforcement give us the courtesy and respect that all human beings should display toward each other. It is time we stopped acting like their unconstitutional activity is OK.
Source: Rare.us | Homeland security vs. your civil rights

I totally agree with this we have to stop acting like this is okay. How many attacks has NSA stopped? Where were they with the Boston bombings? There was evidence all over the bombers computer!!!

I am sick to my gut thinking about this. is any one else ready for a change?
 

specklebang

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I'm afraid it will only get worse.

Actually a 9 year old (a clever one) would probably have an easier time of slipping through. Who (until now) would suspect a 9 year old of nefarious activity?

But our rulers they love them that Patriot Act and if they can't agree on anything else, any law controlling the masses sells well to both sides of the aisle.
 

clownboy

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I will say, to combat increasing sophistication in some mice, more sophisticated mouse traps are designed. The unfortunate side effect is that, while they are good at catching the new sophisticated mice, more of the old average mice slip through.
 

Thoreau72

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The entire Global War On Terror is a hoax of epic proportions, and the largest single factor (after the drug war) in the assault on constitutional rights and the rule of law. Were that hoax to be ended, we might have a chance to return to constitutional governance, but as long as it's in place we will have this tyranny.
 

HonestJoe

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With a 9 year old boy that was able to get onto a plane from Minnesota to Las Vegas you would think they would question homeland security and TSA a little more... If this child can clear all barriers who else can?
I'm not convinced a one-off incident can necessarily say much about a nationwide system.

Not being able to use the internet, phones, and other forms of electronic communications with out thinking am i being watched right now? is just wrong.
I agree. You should probably seek professional help for that self-important paranoia.

I totally agree with this we have to stop acting like this is okay. How many attacks has NSA stopped? Where were they with the Boston bombings? There was evidence all over the bombers computer!!!
Maybe because they're not reading everyone's data after all.

I am sick to my gut thinking about this. is any one else ready for a change?
Change for the sake of change or change because you have detailed pratical ideas of what changes should be made?
 

Thoreau72

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As the boys at South Park have pointed out, TSA stands for Toilet Security Administration. :lol:
 

sKiTzo

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I'm not convinced a one-off incident can necessarily say much about a nationwide system.

I agree. You should probably seek professional help for that self-important paranoia.

Maybe because they're not reading everyone's data after all.

Change for the sake of change or change because you have detailed pratical ideas of what changes should be made?

If you are an american and you are not paranoid after watching the government build the framework for our enslavement, including their purchases of several billions of hollow point rounds (for "practice", they say), and nearly 1000 armored assault vehicles to be deployed on our streets, then maybe you should pull your head out and keep it out in the open air where you can see what's going on. Ted Nugent sums it up in a recent quote: "The American people, it breaks my heart to say... will go down as the dumbest, most unappreciative society in the history of humankind."
The link below is the text of Executive Order 13603. Upon signing it, Obama and whoever wrote it should have been jailed. Read it.

Executive Order 13603 - National Emergency - Government Take Over & Administer all Forms of Energy - BizPac Review

Executive Order 13603 - Wikisource, the free online library.

Sec. 502. Consultants.
The head of each agency otherwise delegated functions under this order is delegated the authority of the President under sections 710(b) and (c) of the Act, 50 U.S.C. App. 2160(b), (c), to employ persons of outstanding experience and ability without compensation and to employ experts, consultants, or organizations. The authority delegated by this section may not be redelegated.
(a.k.a. slavery)

Look how many times they slip in "at peacetime and times of non-emergency". Unnecessarily, really, because this order grants the federal government the power to determine what constitutes a national emergency anyway. When you consider their penchant for false flag, a "national emergency" is really whenever they want.

Now, here's a question to ponder: I'm pretty sure that most totalitarian dictatorships just do it. They don't try to make it "legal". Between this EO, the NDAA, Patriot Act, etc., is this the first time in history that a totalitarian dictatorship has bothered to set up the legal framework for it?
 

MaggieD

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I will say, to combat increasing sophistication in some mice, more sophisticated mouse traps are designed. The unfortunate side effect is that, while they are good at catching the new sophisticated mice, more of the old average mice slip through.

That's a very interesting answer.
 

clownboy

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That's a very interesting answer.

We saw the same thing happenning when Hoover transitioned the FBI from it's old police model to the more sophisticated forensics model.
 

HonestJoe

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If you are an american and you are not paranoid after watching the government build the framework for our enslavement, including their purchases of several billions of hollow point rounds...
You're changing the subject. I was only referring to your specific statement that you are unable to use electronic communications without thinking you're being watched. For the average guy on the street, that is paranoia.

I'm not saying there aren't things the government is doing that is wrong but all this exaggeration, conflation and scare-mongering is counter-productive.
 

Paschendale

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It isn't even that the government has information on us. It is that we neither know that it having this information actually defeats enough terrorist threats to warrant the invasion of privacy (or the cost), nor that there is sufficient oversight of the acquisition of the information. Investigating terrorism in this country should operate the same way as a criminal investigation. There is fundamentally no difference. A terrorist is just a type of criminal. The constitution doesn't suddenly no longer apply merely because of the type of offense a suspect is suspected of.

Our pursuit of criminals, regardless of the type, should as open, transparent, and overseen by the judicial system as possible.
 

TurtleDude

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As the boys at South Park have pointed out, TSA stands for Toilet Security Administration. :lol:

wrong

TOUCHING SENSITIVE AREAS OR

THousands Standing Around
 

Linc

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Would you be willing to sit over a certain part of an Ohio Con-Con leading to a National one in St. Louis..
You could sit on the Gun and Constitution committees..
wrong

TOUCHING SENSITIVE AREAS OR

THousands Standing Around
 

TurtleDude

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Would you be willing to sit over a certain part of an Ohio Con-Con leading to a National one in St. Louis..
You could sit on the Gun and Constitution committees..

sorry I have no clue what you are saying here
 

Linc

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You're not the first one to say that to me today..
My big meme is the Con-Con..
It may not happen during our lifetimes but I won't give up..
I wish for the Con-Con to never close..
Our DC system is completely broken..
All Americans must work together to right the ship.

sorry I have no clue what you are saying here
 

Thoreau72

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You're not the first one to say that to me today..
My big meme is the Con-Con..
It may not happen during our lifetimes but I won't give up..
I wish for the Con-Con to never close..
Our DC system is completely broken..
All Americans must work together to right the ship.

I do understand your point and your concern, but I disagree that Con-Con is the way to proceed.

I think we're in the mess we're in today NOT because the Constitution is written poorly or has failed, but ONLY because many administrations and congress, and the judiciary for that matter, have not honored the document. They and we have forsaken constitutional governance by means of, for example, the drug prohibition and now this idiotic and illegitimate Global War On Terror.
 

NotreDame

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With a 9 year old boy that was able to get onto a plane from Minnesota to Las Vegas you would think they would question homeland security and TSA a little more... If this child can clear all barriers who else can?

Also with the NSA we found out that no one is free from the spying they do on us. We have had our civil rights taken away from us. Not being able to use the internet, phones, and other forms of electronic communications with out thinking am i being watched right now? is just wrong.

Below is an portion of an article i read the other day.


Source: Rare.us | Homeland security vs. your civil rights

I totally agree with this we have to stop acting like this is okay. How many attacks has NSA stopped? Where were they with the Boston bombings? There was evidence all over the bombers computer!!!

I am sick to my gut thinking about this. is any one else ready for a change?

What specifically do you find reprehensible?
 

Ikari

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With a 9 year old boy that was able to get onto a plane from Minnesota to Las Vegas you would think they would question homeland security and TSA a little more... If this child can clear all barriers who else can?

Also with the NSA we found out that no one is free from the spying they do on us. We have had our civil rights taken away from us. Not being able to use the internet, phones, and other forms of electronic communications with out thinking am i being watched right now? is just wrong.

Below is an portion of an article i read the other day.


Source: Rare.us | Homeland security vs. your civil rights

I totally agree with this we have to stop acting like this is okay. How many attacks has NSA stopped? Where were they with the Boston bombings? There was evidence all over the bombers computer!!!

I am sick to my gut thinking about this. is any one else ready for a change?

4th amendment is gone. Chickens and spineless cowards afraid of the "next attack" and unable to do anything for themselves have authorized the government for these actions through their apathy. The NSA won't stop and we won't do anything because too many people are afraid of low probability events to be concerned with the high probability dynamics of government interference in our lives.
 

anatta

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Dependance on the Senate Intelligence Committee's briefings from the executive re: the Partiot Act's non -nterference with the 4th is a ludicrous house of cards, that our 4th rights are secure


Kind of like saying the FISC ( FISA Court) is an adversarial system. Both require suspension of beliefs, that eveything is just fine and dandy.
 

CRUE CAB

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If you are an american and you are not paranoid after watching the government build the framework for our enslavement, including their purchases of several billions of hollow point rounds (for "practice", they say), and nearly 1000 armored assault vehicles to be deployed on our streets, then maybe you should pull your head out and keep it out in the open air where you can see what's going on. Ted Nugent sums it up in a recent quote: "The American people, it breaks my heart to say... will go down as the dumbest, most unappreciative society in the history of humankind."
The link below is the text of Executive Order 13603. Upon signing it, Obama and whoever wrote it should have been jailed. Read it.

Executive Order 13603 - National Emergency - Government Take Over & Administer all Forms of Energy - BizPac Review

Executive Order 13603 - Wikisource, the free online library.

Sec. 502. Consultants.
The head of each agency otherwise delegated functions under this order is delegated the authority of the President under sections 710(b) and (c) of the Act, 50 U.S.C. App. 2160(b), (c), to employ persons of outstanding experience and ability without compensation and to employ experts, consultants, or organizations. The authority delegated by this section may not be redelegated.
(a.k.a. slavery)

Look how many times they slip in "at peacetime and times of non-emergency". Unnecessarily, really, because this order grants the federal government the power to determine what constitutes a national emergency anyway. When you consider their penchant for false flag, a "national emergency" is really whenever they want.

Now, here's a question to ponder: I'm pretty sure that most totalitarian dictatorships just do it. They don't try to make it "legal". Between this EO, the NDAA, Patriot Act, etc., is this the first time in history that a totalitarian dictatorship has bothered to set up the legal framework for it?
Not in a country that has its citizens as well armed as we are. That is one hurdle they will have to work long and hard and be willing to shed quite a bit of blood to get over.
 

NotreDame

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4th amendment is gone. Chickens and spineless cowards afraid of the "next attack" and unable to do anything for themselves have authorized the government for these actions through their apathy. The NSA won't stop and we won't do anything because too many people are afraid of low probability events to be concerned with the high probability dynamics of government interference in our lives.

You do realize some of the data the NSA has acquired is not a violation of individual 4th Amendment rights? Well, I should clarify my remark by stating based on existing U.S. Supreme Court precedent, a reasonable and plausible argument can be made some of the data they have acquired is not a violation of individual 4th Amendment rights. I am specifically referencing the metadata.
 

Thoreau72

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Yes, I guess that's the same USSC that has given us Kelo, Citizens United, the Drug War and a host of other absurd decisions, eh?
 

NotreDame

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Yes, I guess that's the same USSC that has given us Kelo, Citizens United, the Drug War and a host of other absurd decisions, eh?

Well, I am not sure those decisions are "absurd" but whether they are is a digression, a red herring. The reasoning for the decision is reasonable and was decided many years ago, in the late 70s. The case is Smith v. Maryland 442 U.S. 735 (1979).
 

American

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You're not the first one to say that to me today..
My big meme is the Con-Con..
It may not happen during our lifetimes but I won't give up..
I wish for the Con-Con to never close..
Our DC system is completely broken..
All Americans must work together to right the ship.

Oh I see, Con-Con is Constitutional Convention. I guess you have to be in the inner circles of these things to know the lingo, yeah only big wheels learning the speak. :lamo
 
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