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Holocaust denier sentenced to 5 years

Hatuey

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Holocaust denier sentenced to 5 years - Yahoo! News

MANNHEIM, Germany - A German court on Thursday convicted far-right activist Ernst Zundel and sentenced him to five years in prison for Holocaust denial in a case that underlined Germany's determination to prosecute people who claim the Nazis didn't murder six million Jews.

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The 67-year-old Zundel, who was deported from Canada in 2005, was convicted on 14 counts of inciting hatred for years of anti-Semitic activities, including contributing to a Web site devoted to denying the Holocaust — a crime in Germany.

I dont get it. A person has the right to believe whatever it is they want. If they dont believe the holocaust happened. Thats fine by me. It doesn't change the fact that it did.
 
Holocaust denier sentenced to 5 years - Yahoo! News

I dont get it. A person has the right to believe whatever it is they want. If they dont believe the holocaust happened. Thats fine by me. It doesn't change the fact that it did.

Well......It's Germany.....the place where a large portion of the holocaust occurred. I can see how they might have outlawed anti-antisemitism to help clean up their image after WWII.

Said law needs to be removed from the books now, though.
 
Well......It's Germany.....the place where a large portion of the holocaust occurred. I can see how they might have outlawed anti-antisemitism to help clean up their image after WWII.

Said law needs to be removed from the books now, though.

Yeah it's a little scary. It's a bit too far. Personally I dont mind if a person says that the Holocaust or even Slavery never happened. I'd just love to see them try and prove any of these claims. They'll get an awfully harsh lesson in history.
 
Yeah it's a little scary. It's a bit too far. Personally I dont mind if a person says that the Holocaust or even Slavery never happened. I'd just love to see them try and prove any of these claims. They'll get an awfully harsh lesson in history.
Agreed 100%. Speech and ideals should be protected, whether or not we agree. I can certainly understand Germany's stance, they are sincerely trying to make up for the atrocities of the holocaust and that is a great step, but limiting liberty in the search for forgiveness will not accomplish anything. Sidenote, I had a German teacher for my foreign language course(german, she was a nativel German) who was honestly one of the sweetest people I've ever met, it broke her heart to have someone still blaming every person of German birth for the same sentiment that lead to the holocaust, she realizes, of course, that the past is painful but we must forgive and progress before any kind of healing can occur. (I really did feel sympathy for Ebba Schoonover becuase when she related the story, I could see her embarassment over being singled out during the speakers debate over German attrocities). The German government has shown a deep regret over the past, that should be taken as is and they should granted a great simblance of respect for their efforts, but it's time for everyone to move on, and find peace in a world that is sincerely trying to redeem past offences.
 
The law was put in place by among others, the US.
 
In February 2005, a Canadian judge ruled that Zundel's activities were not only a threat to national security, but "the international community of nations" as well.

A Canadian law, passed after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks in the United States, allows the government to hold terrorism suspects without charge, based on secret evidence that does not have to be disclosed to a suspect or his defense.

Zundel was deported a few days later.

Holocaust denier sentenced to 5 years - Yahoo! News

So, Canada is a totalitarian state. And it’s already misusing its own laws for prosecution of dissidents.
 
Strange, other genocides can be denied and nothing happens to that person--what gives?:2razz:
 
Strange, other genocides can be denied and nothing happens to that person--what gives?:2razz:

I find it is interesting that it is practically impossible to find the most recent book (2001) of the Nobel prize winner Solzhenitsyn “Two Hundred Years Together” in english. There he analyzes role of Jews in Russian revolution, civil war, gulags, and asks Jews to accept their wrongdoings. My question is: why this book is unknown to the English-reading public?
By the way, Solzhenitsyn is not an anti-Semite, and he believes in Holocaust.
 
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The law was put in place by among others, the US.

What's the point here? What's the point in casually not naming the "others" as you ensure the "U.S." is expressly printed? Are you now going as far as to declare America evil for wanting to protect Hitler's victims directly after WWII?


These laws were of German creation at the urgence of the allied powers. They were necessary at the time and still are, but the punishment is entirely too harsh. Ironically, what was meant to protect Jews, now endangers them and threatens the health of German society.

It is true that no nation in the world bears so great a burden of shame as do the Germans. And it is true that many see that their only hope is to convince themselves that others are as loathsome now as they so recently were. But they are not alone. By and large people in Eastern Europe and in Hungary in particular, to put it mildly, did not acquit themselves well during the years of Nazi rule. Too many became accomplices, but even those who did not, could not have had a clear conscience, knowing that they had done nothing to save their innocent fellow citizens. It is a well known psychological phenomenon that the worse we behave toward an individual, the more we dislike him. It lessens our sense of guilt if we can believe that the person we mistreated was in fact deserving in some way. Undoubtedly, the same mechanism also works on the level of social groups.

But, what exactly do today's Germans have to do with the Germans of two generations ago? There is a psychological damage that exists in Germany because of the quickness to protect a certain element of the population. Today's Germans are constantly reminded of their past with these laws and they can't quite escape the stigma. Every time one of these laws is enacted and unfair discipline is handed out, countless Germans resent their history and resent the existence of Jews. These laws are necessary, but they better understand the psychological impacts on the society today. Anti-Semitism is on the rise in Europe, especially in Germany, and German politicians don't know what to do about it.

So, it's not as simple as preaching about "free speech" or pointing the finger at the U.S. for the existence of these laws in the first place. The German government has chosen to carry forth with these laws and enforce them. These laws are a paradox. What protects one element serves to remind and shame another. Germany must get past the stigma that haunts them.
 
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Holocaust Denial laws are in effect in these countries: Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, France, Germany, Israel, Lithuania, Poland, Slovakia, Switzerland.

A good short article on the subject and differing viewpoints:
BBC News: The fight against Holocaust denial
 
You guys have no idea how far the guilt goes in Germany for what happened during WW2.

I have seen burly German men break into tears when you mention the word "Nazi" to them. Germans cringe when you say the name "Hitler". You have no idea how far the guilt goes even to this day. This is why they have basically almost refused to go to war again or at least to be an aggressor.

I believe people should believe what they want to believe. My main concern would be that these deniers get support and supporters, on a big scale. In Europe we have seen nations won over by lies. We are a very careful people in Europe.
 
Still....I don't see the point in throwing a Holocaust denier in prison. It's something that obviously happened and if you want to claim it didn't, so be it. That just means the rest of us get to point and laugh at you. But jail time seems a bit on the ludicrous side.
 
Still....I don't see the point in throwing a Holocaust denier in prison. It's something that obviously happened and if you want to claim it didn't, so be it. That just means the rest of us get to point and laugh at you. But jail time seems a bit on the ludicrous side.

Possibly yes. But look at what happened when a great European orator of lies went a bit on the anti-semite side. Not pretty. Arrestation of these people might be what you Americans call pre-emptive??

I'm not saying I am for it. I'm just saying I understand it.
 
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Couldn't you....you know....just learn from past mistakes instead of engaging is something that is obviously of dubious intent and a violation of natural rights? Are you really better off because you are throwing people in jail whom are just saying things or expressing their opinion? I don't think that's the proper solution. Government shouldn't be authorized to jail people because of opinion, that's IMO stepping over the line into tyranny.
 
Couldn't you....you know....just learn from past mistakes instead of engaging is something that is obviously of dubious intent and a violation of natural rights? Are you really better off because you are throwing people in jail whom are just saying things or expressing their opinion? I don't think that's the proper solution. Government shouldn't be authorized to jail people because of opinion, that's IMO stepping over the line into tyranny.

One thing that the human race learns from history is... nothing, we keep repeating the same mistakes time and time again. I understand and possibly agree with what your are saying though.
 
Holocaust denier sentenced to 5 years - Yahoo! News



I dont get it. A person has the right to believe whatever it is they want. If they dont believe the holocaust happened. Thats fine by me. It doesn't change the fact that it did.
so you do believe that the US should impose its belief system and form of government on other nations:mrgreen:
welcome to the dark side of the force Annakin:lol:
 
Couldn't you....you know....just learn from past mistakes instead of engaging is something that is obviously of dubious intent and a violation of natural rights? Are you really better off because you are throwing people in jail whom are just saying things or expressing their opinion? I don't think that's the proper solution. Government shouldn't be authorized to jail people because of opinion, that's IMO stepping over the line into tyranny.
should one really be jailed over an opinion based on IGNORANCE
i dont think so
seems rather silly to me
 
Holocaust denier sentenced to 5 years - Yahoo! News



I dont get it. A person has the right to believe whatever it is they want. If they dont believe the holocaust happened. Thats fine by me. It doesn't change the fact that it did.

It is indeed scary considering the fact that the German government is currently undergoing an attempt to apply similar laws to the entire european union. History is as an academic disipline that thrives on debate which is why limiting academic freedom would be disastrous.
 
When I first started reading the thread I was thinking it was a little silly for people to say this is too much or this law shouldn't be in place anymore but after reading all the post I do realize it's a little harsh.If they want to keep a law like this they should at least make the time spent in jail a lot less...not 5 damn years.
 
History is as an academic disipline that thrives on debate which is why limiting academic freedom would be disastrous.

How can you debate something that DID happen? That's like debating whether 1+1=2.
 
70 years from now we will have WMD deniers in jail as well.

How stupid.

You can only bring an *** to water. You can't make him drink no matter who he votes for.
 
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