Holocaust Denial and Minimization[W:123, 876]

[calamity]

Few things in life have surprised me more than the conspiracy believers who argue that the Holocaust is a hoax or exaggeration. I guess, I just never suspected that something so black and white was open for debate.

How many of us have a grandpa who told us about the horrors he saw when he entered Germany? And those were the good camps, the ones in the West. The camps East of the Reicht were even worse. Far worse.

I guess an argument could be made that the disgusting Eastern camps were just the result of Soviet era propaganda. That the places were just work camps that the Russians put a spin on. But...

I don't buy that. Here's a good article laying out why.
BBC - History - World Wars: Denying the Holocaust

For example, approximately a million Jews on the Eastern Front were shot during 1941-42, and buried in large pits. This is known partly because the Einsatzgruppen, the mobile killing units that coordinated these massacres, prepared detailed reports on the murders - reports that contained precise death tolls, broken down into men, women and children.

These reports were sent to high ranking officials in Berlin, and to army, police and SS officers, as well as diplomats and even prominent industrialists. This wide distribution suggests that the perpetrators felt no shame at what they did. Had these killings not been part of Berlin's policy, the reports would never have been so widely distributed.

 

[CalGun]

Re: Holocaust Denial and Minimization

Its really not that much different than those who believe Israelis were told to leave the World Trade Center before 9/11. My own brother hit me with that one and about blew me over. Maybe its just too hard for some to accept and so they choose not too? IDK.

Few things in life have surprised me more than the conspiracy believers who argue that the Holocaust is a hoax or exaggeration. I guess, I just never suspected that something so black and white was open for debate.

How many of us have a grandpa who told us about the horrors he saw when he entered Germany? And those were the good camps, the ones in the West. The camps East of the Reicht were even worse. Far worse.

I guess an argument could be made that the disgusting Eastern camps were just the result of Soviet era propaganda. That the places were just work camps that the Russians put a spin on. But...

I don't buy that. Here's a good article laying out why.
BBC - History - World Wars: Denying the Holocaust

 

[calamity]

Re: Holocaust Denial and Minimization

Its really not that much different than those who believe Israelis were told to leave the World Trade Center before 9/11. My own brother hit me with that one and about blew me over. Maybe its just too hard for some to accept and so they choose not too? IDK.

Yeah. It's amazing sometimes to hear what other people believe...either without evidence or, as is the case with holocaust denial, contrary to it.

 

[Graffias]

Re: Holocaust Denial and Minimization

Few things in life have surprised me more than the conspiracy believers who argue that the Holocaust is a hoax or exaggeration. I guess, I just never suspected that something so black and white was open for debate.

How many of us have a grandpa who told us about the horrors he saw when he entered Germany?

“Believe only half of what you see and nothing that you hear.”

― Edgar Allan Poe

 

[NWO_Spook]

Re: Holocaust Denial and Minimization

...and here they come!

 

[calamity]

Re: Holocaust Denial and Minimization

...and here they come!

The light of day is the best disinfectant. I'd be surprised if anyone comes to the table with actual proof that this or that claim about the holocaust death numbers was fabricated or otherwise falsified.

I remember speaking to an old German once. He wanted to blame Poles, Croatians, Romanians and Russians for the atrocities because, after all, the worst of it happened in those countries not Germany. Of course, he did not much like being reminded that the German occupying forces, the SS, ruled with an iron fist.

 

[NWO_Spook]

Re: Holocaust Denial and Minimization

The light of day is the best disinfectant. I'd be surprised if anyone comes to the table with actual proof that this or that claim about the holocaust death numbers was fabricated or otherwise falsified.

One member may rally and make a case, but the rest will be anti-Semites with Boobtoob videos and the like. Nothing really serious.

I remember speaking to an old German once. He wanted to blame Poles, Croatians, Romanians and Russians for the atrocities because, after all, the worst of it happened in those countries not Germany. Of course, he did not much like being reminded that the German occupying forces, the SS, ruled with an iron fist.

Well, considering the Nazi efforts to cover their tracks and hide their disgrace, coupled with the concomitant propaganda from Berlin regarding the superiority of the Aryan race, I'm not surprised that many Germans believed that their countrymen were not responsible for the genocide.

 

[Jango]

Re: Holocaust Denial and Minimization

I really don't think that the Holocaust is as black & white as some people say. Nazis really hated Jews. I think the common number used is 6,000,000 killed. I think that that number is too low. Why? Because Nazis really hated Jews. That, and the 1940's was not the epitome of record-keeping.

 

[NWO_Spook]

Re: Holocaust Denial and Minimization

Its really not that much different than those who believe Israelis were told to leave the World Trade Center before 9/11. My own brother hit me with that one and about blew me over. Maybe its just too hard for some to accept and so they choose not too? IDK.

The link between conspiracy theories and anti-Semitism is no secret. The Jews have been the scapegoat of the ignorant since Christianity became the state religion of the Roman Empire (c. 4th cent AD).

 

[Jango]

Re: Holocaust Denial and Minimization

The link between conspiracy theories and anti-Semitism is no secret. The Jews have been the scapegoat of the ignorant since Christianity became the state religion of the Roman Empire (c. 4th cent AD).

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/odigo-says-workers-were-warned-of-attack-1.70579

In the context of: 9/11 was an inside job orchestrated with the help of Israel because Jews are evil = Antisemitism

In the context of: Israeli spies who were in the U.S. and were aware of the hijackers & plot warning their fellow Jew prior to the attacks = not Antisemitism

 

[NWO_Spook]

Re: Holocaust Denial and Minimization

*Advertisement

In the context of: 9/11 was an inside job orchestrated with the help of Israel because Jews are evil = Antisemitism

In the context of: Israeli spies who were in the U.S. and were aware of the hijackers & plot warning their fellow Jew prior to the attacks = not Antisemitism

Which has been addressed by 911 myths here:

Odigo - 911myths

Actually, I was trying to keep 9/11 out of this owing to the focus of the OP, my comment was of a more general nature. The forgery The Protocols of the Elders of Zion is considered the birth of conspiracy theory literature, and during the Middle Ages the Jews were blamed for everything from fiscal problems to the Black Death.

 

[calamity]

Re: Holocaust Denial and Minimization

I really don't think that the Holocaust is as black & white as some people say. Nazis really hated Jews. I think the common number used is 6,000,000 killed. I think that that number is too low. Why? Because Nazis really hated Jews. That, and the 1940's was not the epitome of record-keeping.

I've read numbers approaching 50 million killed in WW2. That 10 million or so were Jews would not surprise me.

 

[Fledermaus]

Re: Holocaust Denial and Minimization

The link between conspiracy theories and anti-Semitism is no secret. The Jews have been the scapegoat of the ignorant since Christianity became the state religion of the Roman Empire (c. 4th cent AD).

Go to Spain... During the Reconquista most Jews were expelled or "converted". And the Jews didn't return (save for some who escaped France during WWII).

There is a beautifully restored Jewish Synagogue in Cordoba. But no Jews go there.

 

[Fledermaus]

Re: Holocaust Denial and Minimization

Just recently I learned that rail cars for military equipment were in short supply due to the trains being used to take Jews to the camps....

 

[ecofarm]

Re: Holocaust Denial and Minimization

In the context of: Israeli spies who were in the U.S. and were aware of the hijackers & plot warning their fellow Jew prior to the attacks = not Antisemitism

Of course it is.

 

[chromium]

Re: Holocaust Denial and Minimization

How about the Asian holocaust? So many Japanese "historians" and political types deny that Nanking even happened and so did the US once the cold war took off. Whereas in Germany holocaust denial is actually illegal and it's actually taught in american textbooks. If you ask me, it's far more common to ignore WWII Japanese atrocities, except pearl harbor of course.

 

[Jango]

Re: Holocaust Denial and Minimization

Which has been addressed by 911 myths here:

Odigo - 911myths

Actually, I was trying to keep 9/11 out of this owing to the focus of the OP, my comment was of a more general nature. The forgery The Protocols of the Elders of Zion is considered the birth of conspiracy theory literature, and during the Middle Ages the Jews were blamed for everything from fiscal problems to the Black Death.

Yeah, I was aware of the 9/11 Myths link on this prior to posting the Haaretz article. Why did I post it anyway? Because the 9/11 Myths link just muddies the water with lousy sources while not debunking what the company CEO said.

 

[Jango]

Re: Holocaust Denial and Minimization

I've read numbers approaching 50 million killed in WW2. That 10 million or so were Jews would not surprise me.

Me neither. The amount of Russians killed are in the ballpark of 20,000,000 alone.

 

[Jango]

Re: Holocaust Denial and Minimization

Of course it is.

Explain.

 

[Fledermaus]

Re: Holocaust Denial and Minimization

How about the Asian holocaust? So many Japanese "historians" and political types deny that Nanking even happened and so did the US once the cold war took off. Whereas in Germany holocaust denial is actually illegal and it's actually taught in american textbooks. If you ask me, it's far more common to ignore WWII Japanese atrocities, except pearl harbor of course.

Nanking, Bataan, Singapore.... Chemical/biological attacks in China.

I have lived in Japan for a total of 2 1/2 years and I can tell you the ability of the Japanese to deny reality in legendary. Only recently they have admitted to the women they took from all conquered lands and forced into sex slavery.

 

[NWO_Spook]

Re: Holocaust Denial and Minimization

Yeah, I was aware of the 9/11 Myths link on this prior to posting the Haaretz article. Why did I post it anyway? Because the 9/11 Myths link just muddies the water with lousy sources while not debunking what the company CEO said.

Well, as 911 myths points out, without a copy of the text it is all mere speculation.

 

[Jango]

Re: Holocaust Denial and Minimization

Nanking, Bataan, Singapore.... Chemical/biological attacks in China.

I have lived in Japan for a total of 2 1/2 years and I can tell you the ability of the Japanese to deny reality in legendary. Only recently they have admitted to the women they took from all conquered lands and forced into sex slavery.

There are several media articles from around the world that have talked about how Japan edits their nation's history that is taught to schoolchildren.

 

[chromium]

Re: Holocaust Denial and Minimization

Nanking, Bataan, Singapore.... Chemical/biological attacks in China.

I have lived in Japan for a total of 2 1/2 years and I can tell you the ability of the Japanese to deny reality in legendary. Only recently they have admitted to the women they took from all conquered lands and forced into sex slavery.

Word. Just read Chang's "Rape of Nanking" and i was shocked on just about every page.

 

[Jango]

Re: Holocaust Denial and Minimization

Well, as 911 myths points out, without a copy of the text it is all mere speculation.

Bull****.

The CEO of the company wasn't "speculating" when he said this:

I have no idea why the message was sent to these two workers, who don't know the sender. It may just have been someone who was joking and turned out they accidentally got it right. And I don't know if our information was useful in any of the arrests the FBI has made

He admitted it.

BTW - Key in on the "turned out they accidentally got it right."

Does not sound like speculation, except, if you want it to.

 

[Fledermaus]

Re: Holocaust Denial and Minimization

There are several media articles from around the world that have talked about how Japan edits their nation's history that is taught to schoolchildren.

To be fair, only recently have we in the USA spoken of the Trail of Tears, Wounded Knee, etc. In fact, Custer got whacked after attempting an attack on a village which was standard practice for the Cavalry.