Holder wants a nation of Cowards

[AlabamaPaul]

You're so outraged by everything, it's getting very redundant. I think a good example of being cowardly is thinking you have to kill a human being any time you get scared. Using a firearm when it is not absolutely necessary is extremely cowardly. You're willing to take away the life of another human being when you don't need to? That seems to be what you're saying and that's what is truly outrageous. What would happen if you got into a fight (you know, since you are keen on "challenging violent acts") and somebody shoots you?

You're setting a table that's going to turn on you. I think all the kool aid you've been drinking is making you a little edgy. What Holder is saying is the same thing many of us have been saying. Certain laws are creating situations where 2 or more people can kill each other, legally, even though nobody is imminently threatened. Just because you "feel" threatened doesn't mean you are. How about the guy that just killed a 13 year old neighbor because he "felt threatened" even though the kid did NOTHING. I guess that's the kind of thing you condone?

Was it you that was getting his face punched in while on a concrete sidewalk? If not, I would suggest that you cannot speak as to the actions that were taken...

 

[joko104]

Right. And Superman is real. Even more real are Hispanic Supermen who are so super they think they're white.......................

I stopped repetitiously posting the stats. 500,000 home invasions and 1,000,000 felonies are prevented each year by private gun ownership.

 

[Oceandan]

Holder wants the predictors of this nation to run around unchallenged to commit their violent acts. he wants all of us to be helpless sheep to be preyed upon and run away like a scared little children.
so no Mr Holder we aren't or will ever be a nation of cowards that will run away in the face of physical threats we are not sheep that run away from the wolf
the man is dangerous and needs to be removed from office

Please remember, this is the guy who walked untraceable guns to Mexican drug lords that have been used to kill hundreds.

He's also the same guy who's sued states for enforcing federal law his department won't enforce.

AG eric holder has about as much credibility as al sharpton.

 

[Fishstyx]

I find it amusing the idea of avoiding senseless confrontation is now considered cowardly, as if the act of trying to deescalate a situation is such a blow to one's pride. :roll:

Nothing to do with pride but survivability. If you have the means to defend yourself, turning your back on your assailant not only puts you at a disadvantage, its puts you at risk. All SYG laws do is remove the vague definition of "retreating as much as possible." These laws exist because people were being sent to jail for defending themselves by overzealous prosecutors.

This isn't about two people in an argument puffing up their chest and someone pulls a gun. In fact, in that situation, SYG wouldn't even apply.

 

[windowdressing]

this juror is a bit confused...she calls self defense laws "stand your ground"

he certainly had a right to defend himself, but stand your ground didn't give it to him.. it had literally nothing to do with it.

see my post 24 ...

 

[windowdressing]

and would Zimmerman be alive today if he did leave his gun at home what proof do you have that Martin wouldn't have continued to MMA style Zimmerman till he is dead

interesting question ... Do you think DZ would have gone as far as he did had he not had a gun?

 

[AlabamaPaul]

good evening ... disagreement? just an interesting observation ... also, how many people do you think truly understand what is or is not permissible with SYG? They got no instructions on it, did they? It's possible, if they used SYG, that it meant to her and possibly others that if Trayvon came at him, he had a right to shoot him ... who knows ... it's also why if you're innocent, ask for a judge ... if you're guilty, ask for a jury ... you never know ... BTW Paul, I suspect that the jury probably decided correctly ... they had so little to go on, that that alone created reasonable doubt ... it's done ... now the DOJ will have to decide whether there is reason to pursue a civil rights case ... I'm still guessing no, but after seeing the AG today, I'm less sure ...

As I have already explained to others, SYG was NOT used as a defense. It was strictly self defense. The FBI has already attempted to find evidence of racial profiling, or whatever, and hasn't been able to do so. GZ's date at his HS prom was black. GZ mentored kids in the neighborhood. The DoJ has no business attempting to persecute this man after his acquittal other than to appease those who desire to make this political...

 

[windowdressing]

Please remember, this is the guy who walked untraceable guns to Mexican drug lords that have been used to kill hundreds.

He's also the same guy who's sued states for enforcing federal law his department won't enforce.

AG eric holder has about as much credibility as al sharpton.

yet, tons more than you do ... you see the problem, right?

 

[Bonzai]

I stopped repetitiously posting the stats. 500,000 home invasions and 1,000,000 felonies are prevented each year by private gun ownership.

Are your stats drawn from the same book that claims 99% of abortions are sought out by 8 months pregnant women looking for a really neat alternative to coloring their hair ?........................

 

[windowdressing]

As I have already explained to others, SYG was NOT used as a defense. It was strictly self defense. The FBI has already attempted to find evidence of racial profiling, or whatever, and hasn't been able to do so. GZ's date at his HS prom was black. GZ mentored kids in the neighborhood. The DoJ has no business attempting to persecute this man after his acquittal other than to appease those who desire to make this political...

as I said Paul, the reason her comment about SYG was interesting because it was not used as a defense (so it should not have been part of their deliberations) ... I already made that point ... stop trying to take credit for that insight :cheers:

 

[pbrauer]

and would Zimmerman be alive today if he did leave his gun at home what proof do you have that Martin wouldn't have continued to MMA style Zimmerman till he is dead

As a mater of fact, I think he would be alive today. He wouldn't have gotten in the situation if he didn't have his gun.

 

[TurtleDude]

Right. And Superman is real. Even more real are Hispanic Supermen who are so super they think they're white.......................

are you posting what you want the facts to be because you are afraid of guns and are afraid of law abiding citizens being armed? because what you posted have no connection to known reality and your racial comments are really stupid and irrelevant

 

[SgtRock]

Eric Holder called the shooting of Martin unnecessary. Really? After Martin attacked Zimmerman and commenced to kill him by beating his head into the sidewalk it became necessary to shoot the aggressor. The AG for all intents and purposes has painted a target on Mr Zimmerman. Members of the NAACP who are calling for riots and violence because they disagree with the verdict should be arrested and charged with inciting riots across the country. And further more Florida State Attorney Angela Corey who after the verdict called Zimmerman a murderer should also be brought up on charges. She also is painting a target on Mr Zimmerman. After OJ was acquitted I do not recall riots in the street. But to be honest I am not surprised by the response to this verdict. Not surprised at all. Race baiters have to justify their existence.

 

[AlabamaPaul]

as I said Paul, the reason her comment about SYG was interesting because it was not used as a defense (so it should not have been part of their deliberations) ... I already made that point ... stop trying to take credit for that insight :cheers:

I'm not sure what you can expect others to ignore even though it wasn't directly brought up. There are a few (okay more than a few) who wanted the jury to be instructed as if SYG was used.

I'll have a Bud Light, thank you...:mrgreen:

 

[MaggieD]

looked it up, found this ...

Zimmerman Juror Says Panel Considered Stand Your Ground In Deliberations: 'He Had A Right To Defend Himself' | ThinkProgress

COOPER: Did you feel like you understood the instructions from the judge? Because they were very complex. I mean, reading them, they were tough to follow.

JUROR: Right. That was our problem. It was just so confusing what went with what and what we could apply to what. Because I mean, there was a couple of them in there that wanted to find him guilty of something. And after hours and hours and hours of deliberating over the law and reading did over and over and over again, we decided there’s just no way — no other place to go.

COOPER: Because of the two options you had, second degree murder or manslaughter, you felt neither applied?

JUROR: Right. Because of the heat of the moment and the Stand Your Ground. He had a right to defend himself. If he felt threatened that his life was going to be taken away from him or he was going to have bodily harm, he had a right.

COOPER: Even though he got out of the car, followed Trayvon Martin that didn’t matter in the deliberations. What mattered was the final seconds, minutes when there was an altercation and whether or not in your mind the most important thing was whether or not George Zimmerman felt his life was in danger?

JUROR: That’s how we read the law. That’s how we got to the point of everybody being not guilty.

Thank you! Good work!

Here's the deal, though. The jury instructions said this:

If George Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in any place where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he reasonably believed that it was necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

Here's the complete instruction: http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press_Releases/Zimmerman_Final_Jury_Instructions.pdf

Think about it. He had no choice, did he? Or are you thinking that, when he was underneath Trayvon Martin, he could have miraculously flipped him off and run like hell? Just plain old self-defense laws protect him regardless of SYG.

At any rate, the jury did absolutely nothing wrong.

 

[SgtRock]

As a mater of fact, I think he would be alive today. He wouldn't have gotten in the situation if he didn't have his gun.

Matter of fact? What facts do you base your statement on?

 

[windowdressing]

I'm not sure what you can expect others to ignore even though it wasn't directly brought up. There are a few (okay more than a few) who wanted the jury to be instructed as if SYG was used.

I'll have a Bud Light, thank you...:mrgreen:

I think jurors are well meaning, but there are some cases where even smart people can get confused with the instructions ... but, again, I'd rather a guilty man go free than an innocent man be convicted, and from I saw and read of the trial, I can see reasonable doubt easily, especially for second degree murder ...

this Bud's for you!:drink

 

[Bonzai]

are you posting what you want the facts to be because you are afraid of guns and are afraid of law abiding citizens being armed? because what you posted have no connection to known reality and your racial comments are really stupid and irrelevant

I'm all about pulling guys zippers down. Everything else is just passing the time, if you must know..................

 

[AlabamaPaul]

I think jurors are well meaning, but there are some cases where even smart people can get confused with the instructions ... but, again, I'd rather a guilty man go free than an innocent man be convicted, and from I saw and read of the trial, I can see reasonable doubt easily, especially for second degree murder ...

this Bud's for you!:drink

If you keep downing them like that, you won't be able to post any more... arty

 

[windowdressing]

Thank you! Good work!

Here's the deal, though. The jury instructions said this:



Here's the complete instruction: http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press_Releases/Zimmerman_Final_Jury_Instructions.pdf

Think about it. He had no choice, did he? Or are you thinking that, when he was underneath Trayvon Martin, he could have miraculously flipped him off and run like hell? Just plain old self-defense laws protect him regardless of SYG.

At any rate, the jury did absolutely nothing wrong.

I'm giving up Maggie ... I don't know how many times I have to say the jury probably rendered the right verdict ... but none of us knows what really happened that night ... the verdict is in, the DOJ may file civil rights charges, a juror or two will write a book, GZ may write his own book and otherwise make some serious cash on this, and I won't be surprised if GZ gets arrested in the future for something, as he had in the past (including assaulting a police officer) ... we'll see ... (and hopefully FL will consider it's SYG law) ...

 

[AlabamaPaul]

I'm giving up Maggie ... I don't know how many times I have to say the jury probably rendered the right verdict ... but none of us knows what really happened that night ... the verdict is in, the DOJ may file civil rights charges, a juror or two will write a book, GZ may write his own and book otherwise make some serious cash on this, and I won't be surprised if GZ gets arrested in the future for something, as he had in the past (including assaulting a police officer) ...

This would not be a good idea...

 

[trfjr]

As a mater of fact, I think he would be alive today. He wouldn't have gotten in the situation if he didn't have his gun.

what evidence do you have that Zimmerman intention was to confront Martin only evidence there is that Zimmerman wanted to keep an eye on Martin to either discourage Martin from committing a crime or to be able to tell the police where he was. And if it was Zimmerman intention was to confront Martin why didn't he have his gun pulled already does a cop enter a building when he feels there is danger in the building with out his gun pulled?

 

[windowdressing]

If you keep downing them like that, you won't be able to post any more... arty

dinking neber hos eny affects on mye posssting ...

 

[MaggieD]

I'm giving up Maggie ... I don't know how many times I have to say the jury probably rendered the right verdict ... but none of us knows what really happened that night ... the verdict is in, the DOJ may file civil rights charges, a juror or two will write a book, GZ may write his own book and otherwise make some serious cash on this, and I won't be surprised if GZ gets arrested in the future for something, as he had in the past (including assaulting a police officer) ... we'll see ... (and hopefully FL will consider it's SYG law) ...

I hope I didn't put you off -- that wasn't my intention. Anyhow, thanks for the information.

 

[windowdressing]

This would not be a good idea...

based on what we know, no, but let's see what they turn up ... and remember, it's a different burden of proof ... we probably agree that unless they have a strong case, leave it alone!