History: Racism in America Today.

[Montgomery]

My basic premise is that slavery was never positively condemned in America because Union required compromise. And thus, the end of slavery was never completely accepted by the American south and those feelings of resentment on losing their rights to keep black slaves has led to present day racism.

Only a complete and honest discussion will lead to some resolution of the problem, or at least be able to provide some direction on where America needs to go from here on in.

Everyone please keep your comments on topic and relating to the title of this thread. I'll be asking for our moderators to police this topic in accordance with the rules and requirements of the academia section.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Reconstruction was doomed when the former states of the Confederacy were again controlled by white southerners who championed white supremacy.

That and the 1865/1866 passage of the "Black Codes" in the southern states. The purpose of these laws was to preserve slavery in the former slave states.

 

[washunut]

My basic premise is that slavery was never positively condemned in America because Union required compromise. And thus, the end of slavery was never completely accepted by the American south and those feelings of resentment on losing their rights to keep black slaves has led to present day racism.

Only a complete and honest discussion will lead to some resolution of the problem, or at least be able to provide some direction on where America needs to go from here on in.

Everyone please keep your comments on topic and relating to the title of this thread. I'll be asking for our moderators to police this topic in accordance with the rules and requirements of the academia section.

So America's problem is that Southerners want their slaves back, really?

 

[Montgomery]

So America's problem is that Southerners want their slaves back, really?

No, southerners don't want their slaves back and know very well that they couldn't have them back. There was a long period of many years in which the souterners didn't accept that they could keep slaves.
And then I'm suggesting that led to hating and racism of black people.

Compromises needed to be made with southern slave holders to make Union of the country possible.

 

[washunut]

No, southerners don't want their slaves back and know very well that they couldn't have them back. There was a long period of many years in which the souterners didn't accept that they could keep slaves.
And then I'm suggesting that led to hating and racism of black people.

Compromises needed to be made with southern slave holders to make Union of the country possible.

How about the wave of immigrants who came America after the civil war. How did those before come to hate African-Americans? Just trying to understand where you are coming from and if there is any basis to think the above is valid.

 

[Montgomery]

Reconstruction was doomed when the former states of the Confederacy were again controlled by white southerners who championed white supremacy.

That and the 1865/1866 passage of the "Black Codes" in the southern states. The purpose of these laws was to preserve slavery in the former slave states.

The racism is still so prevalent and powerful in the US south that Trump was able to put it to his political use in the very same way Hitler used the Jews to blame for 30's Germany's problems. That was what made Trump's popularity among working class Americans.
Now that Trump is gone, it's the right time to talk about it.

Because poverty hasn't gone away and it's certain that Biden won't do the job, mostly because of the opposition to his intended reforms but also due to Biden's need to uphold the status quo of the very wealthy.

Trump never even tried to escape from the power of the very wealthy, and didn't ever acknowledge that was America's problem.

 

[Montgomery]

How about the wave of immigrants who came America after the civil war. How did those before come to hate African-Americans?

I've answered your question on another thread and I know that I've answered it several times on this board. America created a race problem by holding black people back in poverty and lack of acceptance by white people.

Black people weren't even allowed to live in many new sub-divisions, post WW2.

Why?

Just trying to understand where you are coming from and if there is any basis to think the above is valid.

If you're truly trying to understand then I'll try to provide some answers, and I'll ask for help with questions I can't answer.

 

[washunut]

I've answered your question on another thread and I know that I've answered it several times on this board. America created a race problem by holding black people back in poverty and lack of acceptance by white people.

Black people weren't even allowed to live in many new sub-divisions, post WW2.

Why?



If you're truly trying to understand then I'll try to provide some answers, and I'll ask for help with questions I can't answer.

Yes I am truly trying to understand.

I do not doubt that there is racism in America. I hate that it exists,but it does. That being said there are any number of "isms" out there that are also repugnant. I have had to deal with comments vilifying my religion at work. A CEO (of a fortune 500 company) I worked for was blackballed at a local country club because he was Italian-American.

There are all sorts of unfair actions in our society. That is why I wonder what you are getting at when talking about where America goes from here on one sub-set of bigotry.

 

[Napoleon]

I've answered your question on another thread and I know that I've answered it several times on this board. America created a race problem by holding black people back in poverty and lack of acceptance by white people.

The notion that black people were “held back” economically requires more examination. Segregation and racism could certainly impact a black person’s ability to participate in the existing economy at the time, but it wasn’t a deterministic ‘holding back.’ In fact, it had the effect of creating a secondary economy in which black entrepreneurs catering to the needs and wants of black people became very rich indeed. CJ Walker, daughter of slaves, became America’s first self-made millionairess of any color. So, this isn’t so much an issue of what white people did or didn’t do to black people but why some black people saw and took advantage of economic opportunity and others didn’t.

 

[Montgomery]

Yes I am truly trying to understand.

I do not doubt that there is racism in America. I hate that it exists,but it does. That being said there are any number of "isms" out there that are also repugnant. I have had to deal with comments vilifying my religion at work. A CEO (of a fortune 500 company) I worked for was blackballed at a local country club because he was Italian-American.

There are all sorts of unfair actions in our society. That is why I wonder what you are getting at when talking about where America goes from here on one sub-set of bigotry.

Racism is much more prevalent than the others to which you only allude. That's the reason why we're talking about it and not some other lesser problem, whatever you can imagine that to be?

It's what made Trump so popular when one considers that he used white hate against blacks and non-whites. White America was conned into believing that their problems were being caused by blacks, browns, and illegal immigrants. In truth, illegal immigrants were holding up America's agriculture and industry that aren't viable without wages of $5 a day.

American's problems are almost exclusively caused by huge income inequality. That is the reason for the big divide between the world's leading countries on quality of life and America. America has the ability to be #1 every year and not down at #15.

And so the ongoing trouble in America being perpetrated on the people by Trump, is upheld by racism.

You haven't suggested anything else that can be said to be in the running for America's problems.

Most Americans won't even acknowledge that there are any problems!

 

[Montgomery]

The notion that black people were “held back” economically requires more examination. Segregation and racism could certainly impact a black person’s ability to participate in the existing economy at the time, but it wasn’t a deterministic ‘holding back.’ In fact, it had the effect of creating a secondary economy in which black entrepreneurs catering to the needs and wants of black people became very rich indeed. CJ Walker, daughter of slaves, became America’s first self-made millionairess of any color. So, this isn’t so much an issue of what white people did or didn’t do to black people but why some black people saw and took advantage of economic opportunity and others didn’t.

You may be able to name a black person who became wealthy but it would be the exception. It's not even plausible to deny that black people were held back and discriminated against.

Shame on anyone who would suggest such a thing!

But 'do' try to expand on your theory!

 

[Napoleon]

You may be able to name a black person who became wealthy but it would be the exception. It's not even plausible to deny that black people were held back and discriminated against.

Shame on anyone who would suggest such a thing!

But 'do' try to expand on your theory!

It was hardly just one person. There was a deluge of middle and upper class class black businesses owners during and after the reconstruction era. Banks, real estate, salons, funeral homes, barbershops, tailors, entertainment establishments etc...you name it and you can bet there was a business savvy black person owning and operating it. So the same question carries over to the present day. The majority of black people in 21st century America are not impoverished. So what is the difference between the majority who are not and the minority who are?

 

[calamity]

My basic premise is that slavery was never positively condemned in America because Union required compromise. And thus, the end of slavery was never completely accepted by the American south and those feelings of resentment on losing their rights to keep black slaves has led to present day racism.

Only a complete and honest discussion will lead to some resolution of the problem, or at least be able to provide some direction on where America needs to go from here on in.

Everyone please keep your comments on topic and relating to the title of this thread. I'll be asking for our moderators to police this topic in accordance with the rules and requirements of the academia section.

Lincoln did not have the stomach to weed out the worst of the worst and hang them from the gallows. He should have though. Officers on up should have been spared no quarter. Enlisted men maybe could have been given a choice: give your property to a black family or swing like your leaders.

 

[VanceMack]

Oh for ****s sake....

The real tragedy here is that the left CONSTANTLY buys into the notion that the south is still living in this democrat controlled 1840 mindset.

 

[Montgomery]

Lincoln did not have the stomach to weed out the worst of the worst and hang them from the gallows. He should have though. Officers on up should have been spared no quarter. Enlisted men maybe could have been given a choice: give your property to a black family or swing like your leaders.

Hanging may have been a little extreme for fighting a war, if that's what you're suggesting. But after the civil war when whites murdered blacks with impunity, that's when stern punishment should have been dealt out.

And that's really the question. Why wasn't America capable of dealing with southern racists when other countries dealt with the issue sufficiently to allow their black populations to become equals if that's what the black people chose.

America never did accept black people as equals and now has to suffer with the consequences of what it created.

And then Trump came along and doubled down on the problem, making it even worse. If there was any progress being made, Trump has taken it back decades.

Poor people of all races turn to crime if held down indefinitely. America has chosen those it wants to keep living in poverty.

 

[Montgomery]

It was hardly just one person. There was a deluge of middle and upper class class black businesses owners during and after the reconstruction era. Banks, real estate, salons, funeral homes, barbershops, tailors, entertainment establishments etc...you name it and you can bet there was a business savvy black person owning and operating it. So the same question carries over to the present day. The majority of black people in 21st century America are not impoverished. So what is the difference between the majority who are not and the minority who are?

You at least acknowledge that America has a huge racism problem but you still want to attach the blame on the poor black people.

What would you expect of a black man who would be lynched for not stepping off the sidewalk to allow white people to pass by?

Yessuh massa, i'se gwine to be a good n------ and a good mercan citzen!

 

[Napoleon]

You at least acknowledge that America has a huge racism problem but you still want to attach the blame on the poor black people.

What would you expect of a black man who would be lynched for not stepping off the sidewalk to allow white people to pass by?

Yessuh massa, i'se gwine to be a good n------ and a good mercan citzen!

The only thing I acknowledge is that you didn’t answer the question.

 

[mrjurrs]

The notion that black people were “held back” economically requires more examination. Segregation and racism could certainly impact a black person’s ability to participate in the existing economy at the time, but it wasn’t a deterministic ‘holding back.’ In fact, it had the effect of creating a secondary economy in which black entrepreneurs catering to the needs and wants of black people became very rich indeed. CJ Walker, daughter of slaves, became America’s first self-made millionairess of any color. So, this isn’t so much an issue of what white people did or didn’t do to black people but why some black people saw and took advantage of economic opportunity and others didn’t.

Listen, I'm not calling you a racist , but your post supports racism. "Slaves had a secondary economy" Did it offer the same opportunity as the primary economy? 'One black person became a millionaire' Infers that the group experience reflects the individual experience. It's all the black persons fault. Culturally, economically, historically your post doesn't represent accuracy. Connect these dots. Slavery>Jim Crow>Mass incarceration.

 

[Montgomery]

Listen, I'm not calling you a racist , but your post supports racism. "Slaves had a secondary economy" Did it offer the same opportunity as the primary economy? 'One black person became a millionaire' Infers that the group experience reflects the individual experience. It's all the black persons fault. Culturally, economically, historically your post doesn't represent accuracy. Connect these dots. Slavery>Jim Crow>Mass incarceration.

The racism/race problem exists and that can't be denied. For Trump to keep the spotlight on himself he will have to become more plainly and blatantly racist. His agenda was never anything other than appealing to racism and now he has nothing else.
As Trump speaks out he will incite some of the extremists to violence and that will make the problem even worse..

America needs to silence Trump but hasn't found any way in which to do it.
Trump's popularity could even grow now that politics aren't a part of the equation. I'm saying that Biden's supporters in large numbers will also be Trump supporters from an apolitical POV.

Biden and the Dems need to start producing big relief for the people. While the system is rigged to stop that from happening.

Racism has united the Republican party under the Trump name.

 

[mrjurrs]

The racism/race problem exists and that can't be denied. For Trump to keep the spotlight on himself he will have to become more plainly and blatantly racist. His agenda was never anything other than appealing to racism and now he has nothing else.
As Trump speaks out he will incite some of the extremists to violence and that will make the problem even worse..

America needs to silence Trump but hasn't found any way in which to do it.
Trump's popularity could even grow now that politics aren't a part of the equation. I'm saying that Biden's supporters in large numbers will also be Trump supporters from an apolitical POV.

Biden and the Dems need to start producing big relief for the people. While the system is rigged to stop that from happening.

Racism has united the Republican party under the Trump name.

Unfortunately I have to agree. I don't believe that all djt voters are racist, but by their vote, they have shown that racism and the power structures supporting it are okay with them.

 

[Montgomery]

Unfortunately I have to agree. I don't believe that all djt voters are racist, but by their vote, they have shown that racism and the power structures supporting it are okay with them.

All of his supporters aren't overtly racist.
But how can a person who is not a racist possibly support Trump?

And so if you carefully read what I said then you will understand that Trump owns no appeal other than racism now that he doesn't represent any Republican agenda.
He never really did but at least he could attach an 'R' to his name when he held office.
Maybe that begs the question on just what Trump will be able to make his agenda when he tries to regain the favour of the Republican party. It's slipping away quickly for him now with McConnell turning against him.

In the short term, does McConnell and his politics have more power than Trump and his racism cause?

We can at least say that McConnell knows very well that to support Trump over conviction by the Senate, he will be supporting racism.

All of which I am just suggesting, with the emphasis on hearing good and reasoned opinions.

 

[mrjurrs]

All of his supporters aren't overtly racist.
But how can a person who is not a racist possibly support Trump?

And so if you carefully read what I said then you will understand that Trump owns no appeal other than racism now that he doesn't represent any Republican agenda.
He never really did but at least he could attach an 'R' to his name when he held office.
Maybe that begs the question on just what Trump will be able to make his agenda when he tries to regain the favour of the Republican party. It's slipping away quickly for him now with McConnell turning against him.

In the short term, does McConnell and his politics have more power than Trump and his racism cause?

We can at least say that McConnell knows very well that to support Trump over conviction by the Senate, he will be supporting racism.

All of which I am just suggesting, with the emphasis on hearing good and reasoned opinions.

I've tried to figure that out, and I do believe that certain self-interests could prevail over racism. Economic (tax cuts and deregulation), single-issue voters and idol worshippers. I feel a large number of those voters are simply afraid of change. Not societal change, but changes to their individual lives. I think fear motivates many djt supporters. There are obviously others I have not thought about.

What about racism? A comparatively small amount of djt supporters are overtly racist. They are justly scorned by most. The racist power structures that support our society benefit all people who have never needed to consider the color of their skin. It's no longer enough to say 'I'm not a racist'. It is time to be anti-racist. IMO

 

[Napoleon]

Listen, I'm not calling you a racist , but your post supports racism. "Slaves had a secondary economy" Did it offer the same opportunity as the primary economy? 'One black person became a millionaire' Infers that the group experience reflects the individual experience. It's all the black persons fault. Culturally, economically, historically your post doesn't represent accuracy. Connect these dots. Slavery>Jim Crow>Mass incarceration.

My post is factually accurate. The notion that racism in America was and is a deterministic monolith in the reconstruction era and beyond is simply false. From a historical standpoint, racism and segregation only succeeded in creating a secondary parallel economy in which black entrepreneurs thrived and a distinct upper and middle class formed. In terms of the current state of things - perhaps you can take a stab at answering the question I posed: what is the difference between the majority of black people who are not impoverished and the minority who are?

 

[mrjurrs]

My post is factually accurate. The notion that racism in America was and is a deterministic monolith in the reconstruction era and beyond is simply false. From a historical standpoint, racism and segregation only succeeded in creating a secondary parallel economy in which black entrepreneurs thrived and a distinct upper and middle class formed. In terms of the current state of things - perhaps you can take a stab at answering the question I posed: what is the difference between the majority of black people who are not impoverished and the minority who are?

Really?

Tulsa Race Massacre - Facts, Photos, Coverup

During the Tulsa Race Massacre, a white mob attacked residents, homes and businesses in the predominantly Black Greenwood neighborhood of Tulsa, Oklahoma over 18 hours on May 31-June 1, 1921. The event remains one of the worst incidents of racial violence in U.S. history.

www.history.com

 

[Napoleon]

Really?

Tulsa Race Massacre - Facts, Photos, Coverup

During the Tulsa Race Massacre, a white mob attacked residents, homes and businesses in the predominantly Black Greenwood neighborhood of Tulsa, Oklahoma over 18 hours on May 31-June 1, 1921. The event remains one of the worst incidents of racial violence in U.S. history.

www.history.com

Yes, really. Are you avoiding the question?