History books that warrant a good reading

[128shot]

I know in the US politics section they have one similiar, and I think this thread can follow a similiar path..


I just want to make a different thread because I think good hardcore history books deserve their own space...

 

[Schweddy]

Excellent first post - it deserves a sticky.

 

[aquapub]

The Politically Incorrect Guide To American History

It is an eye opener.

It shows the Constitution in its INTENDED (and Woods demonstrates thoroughly that it was intended) context.

It disengages myths about the Civil War.

It breaks down the ACTUAL effects of FDR's welfare state crusade.





By the way, I wouldn't expect to get much diversity on this topic. National book sales over the last twenty years have always shown solidly that liberals don't read. Conservative books fly off the shelves like mad despite constant hurdles to getting published. Liberals get multi-million-dollar advances regardless of how repeatedly liberal books flop.

"Another name for an unapologetically Republican writer is, 'unpublished.'"
A.C.

 

[MiamiFlorida]

I know in the US politics section they have one similiar, and I think this thread can follow a similiar path..


I just want to make a different thread because I think good hardcore history books deserve their own space...

The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich.

 

[The Truth-Bringer]

Here are some good Scholarly books to open Eyes reasonably, and arent propoganda but serious analysis's and such, such as:

"Wilson's War: How Woodrow Wilsons Great Blunder Caused Lenin, Hitler, stalin, and World War II" By Jim Powell. (Shows in a study how the effects of Wilson joining WWI Caused the biggest mass murderers in History to pop up.)

"Killing Hope: US Military and CIA Interventions since World War II" By William Blum. (Lists the dozens of US Imperialistic attacks since WWII, including many places and many US-Sponsered Geonicides that normal people havent heard of, like the mass killing of Native People in Guatalmala, and The Indonesian Geonicide and such.)

"The Holocaust Industry" By Norman Finkelstein (Opens eyes on The Jewish Influence on the US, Its very controversial so read it to see the controversy.)

"Derailing Democracy: The America the Media Don't Want You to See" By David McGowan. (Note: This is not too scholarly but nonetheless)

"Land of Hypocrisy, Second Edition" by Kennie Anderson

"Pawns of Yalta" By Elliot. (Shows how the US Cowarded down to the soviets and sent over 1,000,000 Soviet POWs to their cold deaths)

"Perpetual Peace for Perpetual War" (Numerous Authors)(Shows in a scholarly study how FDR's Foreign Policy caused great mayhem to the world and how Pearl Harbor and the road to war actually was done.)

"The Great Terror: A Reassesment" By Robert Conquest (Shows how the US openly ignored proof that geonicide and terror was happening inside russia, but failed to act or care.)

"American Holocaust" By stannard (Shows how millions upon millions of indians (Estimated 100,000,000) were killed by European imperialism. Only 10,000,000 Was the result of the US, the rest was mainly the other imperialist powers and mainly spain.)

 

[ALiberalModerate]

There is history, and then there is propoganda. It seems that most of the examples given fall into the later catagory.

 

[The Truth-Bringer]

No Not really, Its Schoarly Studies, Not propoganda which is basically newspapers, those funny named books, and such. Yet I agree one or 2 of them are propoganda, but still gain new perspectives. I take back "The Land of Hypocricy" and "what the US Media wont let you see", and advise caution in "US Military INtervention since WWII", Those I agree are biased, but still you must read those to see the other sides views, but yes they are partial propoganda.
The Rest I solidly believe is good solid scholarly and truthful works

 

[MiamiFlorida]

No Not really, Its Schoarly Studies, Not propoganda which is basically newspapers, those funny named books, and such. Yet I agree one or 2 of them are propoganda, but still gain new perspectives. I take back "The Land of Hypocricy" and "what the US Media wont let you see", and advise caution in "US Military INtervention since WWII", Those I agree are biased, but still you must read those to see the other sides views, but yes they are partial propoganda.
The Rest I solidly believe is good solid scholarly and truthful works

Revisions of history are helpful -- when they're based on all the available documents and other evidence, and are not mere brattiness on the part of the scholar. It's a big jump from "revision" to "revisionism". Many journalists who do their homework would tell you a "scholar" opinion is is just what they present you with....and many, many previous historians....established and recognized.....would question the validity of Jim Powell's conclusions, to name one of your sources.

 

[Nezdragon]

"American Holocaust" By stannard (Shows how millions upon millions of indians (Estimated 100,000,000) were killed by European imperialism. Only 10,000,000 Was the result of the US, the rest was mainly the other imperialist powers and mainly spain.)

And most people blame these deaths on America. Why is this? Because they believe whatever they hear.

Besides, communism has a similar total racked up (100 million, give or take), and I have yet to see a *successful* communist country. Pretty much all of them are completely controlled by the government. Turns out living conditions are crap there too... Most forms of government are better than democracy, until you add people. Human beings tend to be corrupted by power, which is why socialism will never work.

A point I would like to bring up is that genocide is NOT new. It is not something white people invented (which is what most hardcore leftist college professors want you to believe). Genocide and slavery go back to the beginning of time. Genocide is only popping up in force this past few centuries because military technology allows killing of people on a massive scale.

Want to know what killed the most Indians? Disease. Smallpox, whooping cough, and others wiped out far more indians than any army ever could. Disease would have decimated the Indians whether the conquistadors attacked them or not. Eventually the Indians built up resistances to the diseases, but the damage was done. What happened, happened, and there is no point in blaming present day America for something that happened almost 500 years ago.

My :twocents:

 

[ShamMol]

The Superpower Myth-Nancy Soderberg

This book chronicles the Clinton administration's policy on foreign policy and is quite balanced.

 

[The Truth-Bringer]

And most people blame these deaths on America. Why is this? Because they believe whatever they hear.

Besides, communism has a similar total racked up (100 million, give or take), and I have yet to see a *successful* communist country. Pretty much all of them are completely controlled by the government. Turns out living conditions are crap there too... Most forms of government are better than democracy, until you add people. Human beings tend to be corrupted by power, which is why socialism will never work.

A point I would like to bring up is that genocide is NOT new. It is not something white people invented (which is what most hardcore leftist college professors want you to believe). Genocide and slavery go back to the beginning of time. Genocide is only popping up in force this past few centuries because military technology allows killing of people on a massive scale.

Want to know what killed the most Indians? Disease. Smallpox, whooping cough, and others wiped out far more indians than any army ever could. Disease would have decimated the Indians whether the conquistadors attacked them or not. Eventually the Indians built up resistances to the diseases, but the damage was done. What happened, happened, and there is no point in blaming present day America for something that happened almost 500 years ago.

My :twocents:

Actually for a note, Best Experts estimate Communism's toll at 110 Million + now, due to sudden documents increasing Mao's and Stalin's Totals.

And about that indians, WHO BROUGHT THE DISEASES? The Spanish, Who were the result of most of those deaths, and I know that America didnt do most of them, but they still did kill undenialbly 1000's + of indians throughout the 1800s, but obviously most of the Deaths are still on spain and other imperial powers then. Just people often use the term "american" in different ways, Stannard is using it as the continent being killed, he does not mean the USA.

And about that part about Communist States: I Quote This statement from "Stalin and His Hangman: The Tyrant and Those Who Killed for him" By Donald Rayfield, "Noone killed more Communists Than Stalin". So you really call that communist? Theoretically they were never a communist state but basically one calling themselves it. Their GULAG System would have been good if they actually gave them full rations for their full work, and if they didnt shoot all the escapees. The Stalinist system was corrupt and deranged, And against Utopian or Marxist Theoretics. Its lenins addition that caused some bad parts, like his justification of the use of terror and such.

 

[The Truth-Bringer]

Revisions of history are helpful -- when they're based on all the available documents and other evidence, and are not mere brattiness on the part of the scholar. It's a big jump from "revision" to "revisionism". Many journalists who do their homework would tell you a "scholar" opinion is is just what they present you with....and many, many previous historians....established and recognized.....would question the validity of Jim Powell's conclusions, to name one of your sources.

Powell Mabye, But yet His Wilsons War seems very conclusive, all the facts seem to correct to a relative degree, just its hard to attribute them all to Wilson's Decision though. Thats why books are called Controversial, if we didnt have em, we would never change our views. But I do see your point.

 

[Tashah]

I would be somewhat cautious about the 'historical' recomendations of The Truth-Bringer. Does the name David Irving ring any bells Truth-Bringer?

 

[The Truth-Bringer]

I Never said His books were good, I simply said the Person was deserving of Human Rights, not his books. My books I recommend are usually universally and scholarly admired books , Of Course, My specializations are In the Field of Soviet/Communist Studies and Also Im beginning Philosophy Now, So yes be cautious of mine outside Those Two Fields, I know my own faults, but Those opinions are still better than most common peoples.

 

[nkgupta80]

churchill's second world war ...6 volumes... may get boring, but a lot of it is just outstanding writing. (esp the part where he describes Midway).

 

[Tashah]

I Never said His books were good, I simply said the Person was deserving of Human Rights, not his books.

Since you place my integrity in question, I will respond. You did if fact state that Irving is a bona-fide historian and implied that his Holocaust denial theme has legitimate historical working points.

Category: International Politics
Thread: International Jewish Banking Conspiracy
Post: #177

He gives facts about the Holocaust that very few people have been able to speak, people published him before until The Jewish Organizations began a crackdown and started threatening publishers with arrest and sueing if they didnt stop publishing his books.

(Bold emphasis above added by me)

In his verdict rendered in 2000 in the High Court of Great Britain in the libel case Irving vrs Lipstadt/Penguin Books, Judge Charles Gray found Irving to be a falsifier of history, an historical revisionist, a Hitler apologist, an anti-Semite, a racist, and a neo-Nazi supporter.

You next attempted to excuse Irving as merely a 'bad Historian'. If an Historian does indeed do sloppy work, then the errors will be random throughout his work and tend to both deny and support any particular thesis. This is not the case with Irving. All of his errors were purposeful... and calculated to exculpate Hitler and cast doubt on the dimensions of the Holocaust. The Court found that all of Irvings historical works contained omissions, misquotes, hidden footnote references, invented passages, and ghost-sources for the explicit intent to falsify history.

I would be somewhat cautious about the 'historical' recomendations of The Truth-Bringer. Does the name David Irving ring any bells Truth-Bringer?

 

[robin]

Truthbringer
These days there are so many documentary programmes about the war, it's hard to imagine how you could remain so ignorant of the true nature & history of the holocaust, especially as you profess to be a scholar !
Irving's books amount to his own propaganda.
He is of the same family Frankenstien as Goebbels.
I thought people that go to university are supposed to be intelligent, but you have for reminded me how many swats are complete twerps, who can't tell right from wrong factually or morally even when he truth is put right under your nose.
Swats such as yourself, appear to have no capacity for thought, but merely the capacity to regurgitate facts in an exam room & get a piece of paper at the end of it to confirm they have done so, though in your case half the facts you absorb aren't even correct !
One wonders just what practical use are people like you to any employer or anyone else for that matter ?
What are you going to do for a living when you finish college ?
The worry is that psuedo intellectuals like you get into jobs where they can do real harm.
Hitler employed members of the German intelligencia to lead his einsatzgroupen death squads. Half of them had Phd's !
Lets just hope our democracies can keep people like you in check.
Hopefully you'll just wind up as a harmless lecturer somewhere...either that or serving in Mac Donalds :lol:

 

[teacher]

The Rise and Fall of 26x world champs. by teacher

 

[Aryan Imperium]

Anything at all by David Irving.

 

[teacher]

How I wish Hitler was alive and a Catholic priest and I was an Alter boy. by Ayran Imperium

 

[Aryan Imperium]

How I wish Hitler was alive and a Catholic priest and I was an Alter boy. by Ayran Imperium

More likely "How I wish that arsehole teacher was here now and said that to my face" by Aryan Imperium.
Make my day-come to Europe you arsehole.

 

[cnredd]

More likely "How I wish that arsehole teacher was here now and said that to my face" by Aryan Imperium.
Make my day-come to Europe you arsehole.

[Moderator mode]

Temper! Temper!

We are not in The Basement...ease up with the language & personal attacks.

[/Moderator mode]

 

[The Truth-Bringer]

Since you place my integrity in question, I will respond. You did if fact state that Irving is a bona-fide historian and implied that his Holocaust denial theme has legitimate historical working points.

Category: International Politics
Thread: International Jewish Banking Conspiracy
Post: #177

(Bold emphasis above added by me)

In his verdict rendered in 2000 in the High Court of Great Britain in the libel case Irving vrs Lipstadt/Penguin Books, Judge Charles Gray found Irving to be a falsifier of history, an historical revisionist, a Hitler apologist, an anti-Semite, a racist, and a neo-Nazi supporter.

You next attempted to excuse Irving as merely a 'bad Historian'. If an Historian does indeed do sloppy work, then the errors will be random throughout his work and tend to both deny and support any particular thesis. This is not the case with Irving. All of his errors were purposeful... and calculated to exculpate Hitler and cast doubt on the dimensions of the Holocaust. The Court found that all of Irvings historical works contained omissions, misquotes, hidden footnote references, invented passages, and ghost-sources for the explicit intent to falsify history.

He Does have legimate points which are foolish to deny, like the Point about Dresdens Dead being slightly over 35,000. Which is foolish to deny.

So you state historians that are mistaken throughout all their works have a "Purpose" ? Then go and eat up Goldhagen and Getty and the Other Stalinist Deniers and Hitler-Over exagaeraters.

And a court verdict means nothing. It has been seen althroughout history that a court verdict on a political case will often be overturned and despised later on.

 

[The Truth-Bringer]

Truthbringer
These days there are so many documentary programmes about the war, it's hard to imagine how you could remain so ignorant of the true nature & history of the holocaust, especially as you profess to be a scholar !
Irving's books amount to his own propaganda.
He is of the same family Frankenstien as Goebbels.
I thought people that go to university are supposed to be intelligent, but you have for reminded me how many swats are complete twerps, who can't tell right from wrong factually or morally even when he truth is put right under your nose.
Swats such as yourself, appear to have no capacity for thought, but merely the capacity to regurgitate facts in an exam room & get a piece of paper at the end of it to confirm they have done so, though in your case half the facts you absorb aren't even correct !
One wonders just what practical use are people like you to any employer or anyone else for that matter ?
What are you going to do for a living when you finish college ?
The worry is that psuedo intellectuals like you get into jobs where they can do real harm.
Hitler employed members of the German intelligencia to lead his einsatzgroupen death squads. Half of them had Phd's !
Lets just hope our democracies can keep people like you in check.
Hopefully you'll just wind up as a harmless lecturer somewhere...either that or serving in Mac Donalds :lol:

Like I said earlier: My Expertise is not the Holocaust Exactly, I am more educated in Soviet History so take my Ramblings on the Holocaust with 'A grain of salt", for I admit that they are not very expertise. So dont criticize me on things that I already admited I am not very good at.

My expertise areas are Soviet History and Philosophy

So People like me are experts in areas of Goverment and The World, Not exactly history. Just because a person is wrong in one thing like we ALL ARE , doenst mean we are wrong in everything

 

[Tashah]

He Does have legimate points which are foolish to deny, like the Point about Dresdens Dead being slightly over 35,000. Which is foolish to deny.

In Irving's book, The Destruction of Dresden, he maintained the death toll to be well over 200,000. Almost all legitimate historians place the figure at around 31,000. Even German documents support this number. We have already had this debate in another thread (you lost big time)... shall we rehash it again here mein Herr?

So you state historians that are mistaken throughout all their works have a "Purpose" ? Then go and eat up Goldhagen and Getty and the Other Stalinist Deniers and Hitler-Over exagaeraters.

Can't you read? I stated that historians whose mistakes all tend to support one particular thesis, rather than being random mistakes, can be viewed as falsifiers of history and revisionists. Exactly what part of this is so difficult for you to grasp?

And a court verdict means nothing. It has been seen althroughout history that a court verdict on a political case will often be overturned and despised later on.

Lol... surely you jest. This was not a 'political case' at all... it was a libel case initiated by David Irving against Deborah Lipstadt/Penguin Books. This case will never be overturned (Ad Finito) and will remain a beacon of truth against the forces of neo-nazi historical revisionism.