• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Hillsborough reactions

That may be the way one or two individuals, possibly not as eloquent as they could have been, expressed it, but none of the spokespeople for the campaign, nor any of their advocates such as Andy Burnham have expressed it that way. I'm sure the emotions being felt in Liverpool run the gamut. Frankly, I wouldn't condemn someone for feeling emotions that might not be exactly PC.

Sinister in what way? What evil do you believe they might be planning? I think 'sinister' might, on reflection, be a poor word choice on your part.

Why would they be planning anything? Unless you have a conspiracy I've not heard about? I maintain, some of those interviewed came across as a little sinister, that was all. Again, I really hope they get full access to the paperwork and statements from that traumatic period. Putting this properly to rest will more than likely take years with various claims already gone in, that will inevitably be fought in a court of law.

What this means for South Yorkshire Police, with their handling of other high profile cases is anyone's guess.
 
It was never about compensation. It was about things like the family of a schoolboy, blackmailed on their doorstep for a copy of his school photo "Otherwise we'll just have to use the picture of his dead crushed body lying on the football pitch" They handed it over, and the despicable "Sun" used both pics. It's about righting such wrongs.

yeah i just looked at some front cover images of the sun back then and omg...it's every bit as heinous as communist state media after the authorities commit butcheries. If i were related to victims i would probably try to burn their building down
 
Why would they be planning anything? Unless you have a conspiracy I've not heard about? I maintain, some of those interviewed came across as a little sinister, that was all.

Well, sinister means the appearance of the threat of evil, so in what way did they come across as sinister? I just don't get your use of the word.
 
And not only your heart will go out to the families but also your money. They will indeed get what they have been fighting for, loads and loads of lovely compo. (note for American readers. Compo means compensation which British judges throw around like confetti, much to the delight and enrichment of lawyers).

It's much more about reforming South Yorkshire Police and the British police in general who are seemingly unfit for purpose.

Court action for compensation is the only way to bash institutions into getting better sometimes.
 
I was a fresh face Airman back in 1989, had just been stationed at RAF Lakenheath. My room mate took me to my first English pub for a pint, and to a watch the football semi final, what unfolded still to this day is seared into my memory. Much has happen since then, now back in the USA, but during all that time I have followed the story, the many inquests, the lies, and cover ups. Finally the truth is out, and I hope the families can get some small amount of closure, and peace of mind.
 
It's much more about reforming South Yorkshire Police and the British police in general who are seemingly unfit for purpose.

I don't believe that. Generally, I believe the British police do a tremendous job, unarmed and under-funded, abused and used by nefarious politicians. I believe South Yorkshire police were abysmally led by people who only thought of covering their arses. That doesn't mean that the rank-and-file of SY police officers behaved appallingly at Hillsborough. The vast majority did their absolute best to save lives and deal with a terrible situation caused by the negligence and incompetence of their superiors.

Now Orgreave was a very different matter, another debate entirely.

I'll declare an interest, my brother-in-law is an inspector in SYP. He's a decent, talented and compassionate man doing an infernally difficult job and I believe that that goes for the vast majority of his colleagues, despite management that has been dreadful for a dreadfully long period of time.

The Hillsborough process needs to bring to book those who lied, conspired and denied justice to the victims, but it doesn't need to destroy the reputation of every single officer who serves his/her community in South Yorkshire.
 
I don't believe that. Generally, I believe the British police do a tremendous job, unarmed and under-funded, abused and used by nefarious politicians. I believe South Yorkshire police were abysmally led by people who only thought of covering their arses. That doesn't mean that the rank-and-file of SY police officers behaved appallingly at Hillsborough. The vast majority did their absolute best to save lives and deal with a terrible situation caused by the negligence and incompetence of their superiors.

Now Orgreave was a very different matter, another debate entirely.

I'll declare an interest, my brother-in-law is an inspector in SYP. He's a decent, talented and compassionate man doing an infernally difficult job and I believe that that goes for the vast majority of his colleagues, despite management that has been dreadful for a dreadfully long period of time.

The Hillsborough process needs to bring to book those who lied, conspired and denied justice to the victims, but it doesn't need to destroy the reputation of every single officer who serves his/her community in South Yorkshire.

I fully agree that most police are trying their best to be exalent.

The difficulty is with things that happen such as the cover ups you mention but building up to the fabricating of evidence against a conservative cabinate minister in the pleb-gate affair where clearly the police involved thought they were above any control what so ever.
 
I don't believe that. Generally, I believe the British police do a tremendous job, unarmed and under-funded, abused and used by nefarious politicians. I believe South Yorkshire police were abysmally led by people who only thought of covering their arses. That doesn't mean that the rank-and-file of SY police officers behaved appallingly at Hillsborough. The vast majority did their absolute best to save lives and deal with a terrible situation caused by the negligence and incompetence of their superiors.

Now Orgreave was a very different matter, another debate entirely.

I'll declare an interest, my brother-in-law is an inspector in SYP. He's a decent, talented and compassionate man doing an infernally difficult job and I believe that that goes for the vast majority of his colleagues, despite management that has been dreadful for a dreadfully long period of time.

The Hillsborough process needs to bring to book those who lied, conspired and denied justice to the victims, but it doesn't need to destroy the reputation of every single officer who serves his/her community in South Yorkshire.

Andy, many believe that the belief in their apparent invincibility resulting from the Orgreave farce directly lead to the Police involved in Hillsborough believing that they were above the law and politically protected by the Conservative governments of the day. An organisation like the Police does not behave like it can get away with that kind of thing without some sense that they will not be pursued.

I was also around in the 80s and the wretched hooliganism in Football at that time meant that it was easy to believe that hooligans were responsible. The Police were under all kinds of pressure to contain it, which I sympathise with completely but, they were caught with their pants down and were institutionally incapable of taking responsibility. The gut reactions were understandable, what followed was criminal conspiracy and, I am sure our resident 'sinister' detector will find it shocking but, they need to have the book thrown at them, dead, retired or promoted.
 
Six people have been charged over the 1989 Hillsborough stadium crush that killed 96 people, with the police officer who was in charge on the day accused of manslaughter by gross negligence.
Key points:

96 people died in the Hillsborough stadium crush when thousands of fans flooded into over-full, fenced-in section
David Duckenfield was the police match commander who opened the exit gate to let more fans in
Duckenfield has now been charged with manslaughter by gross negligence

The victims of Britain's worst sporting disaster died in an overcrowded, fenced-in enclosure at the Hillsborough football stadium in Sheffield during an FA Cup semi-final between Liverpool and Nottingham Forest.

Hillsborough stadium crush: Six people, including former senior police officer David Duckenfield, facing charges - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)


The long and winding road.

28 years is a terribly long time to wait. The strength & resolve shown from family and friends of the victims involved is admirable. So much respect for them all.
 
The long and winding road.

28 years is a terribly long time to wait. The strength & resolve shown from family and friends of the victims involved is admirable. So much respect for them all.

On a different topic, but with the same degree of tenacity and perseverance shown by the victims, at last! Cardinal Pell will have to face justice. I wonder how long it'll take him to get on a Qantas.

Cardinal Pell: Vatican treasurer denies Australia sex offences - BBC News

I know it's off-topic, but I heard an interview with one of the people, himself a victim of sexual abuse by Catholic clergy in Ballarat, who is supporting the people whose accusations against Pell are finally being taken seriously. It was a very inspiring interview and it put me in mind of the countless interviews I'd seen with families of Hillsborough victims over the years.

How these people have the fortitude and sheer dogged determination to pursue these things is a source of wonder to me.
 
Last edited:
Today we have the ex-judge appointed to the Grenfell enquiry, without reference to the tenants which May promised, saying he doubted he would be able to investigate as widely as May promised, and that he would probably not reach any conclusions that would satisfy the victims. I forsee another 20 years of stoic doggedness for justice.
 
Chief Constable of South Yorkshire Police suspended but I don't think this will be the end - .

The police officer who was in charge on the day will face the charges of manslaughter and rightly so but it wasn't him that was responsible for the massive and enduring cover up afterwards. I feel a bit sorry for him because he is going to probably become the scapegoat. His crime was incompetence but there were worse people than him involved in the aftermath.
 
The police officer who was in charge on the day will face the charges of manslaughter and rightly so but it wasn't him that was responsible for the massive and enduring cover up afterwards. I feel a bit sorry for him because he is going to probably become the scapegoat. His crime was incompetence but there were worse people than him involved in the aftermath.

He (Duckenfield) isn't the only person being charged. The other 5 are facing charges specifically related to the cover-up, with charges including perverting the course of justice and misconduct in public office. Duckenfield isn't taking the rap alone and no one can turn him into a scapegoat.
 
The long and winding road.

28 years is a terribly long time to wait. The strength & resolve shown from family and friends of the victims involved is admirable. So much respect for them all.

Yes and the horrific role media played in blaiming the victim and defending the authorities.

Also, as I understand it the big football club could profit form the tragedy and how it was played out in media. Because instead of creating safer standing section they instead could get rid of standing sections and instead only target a wealthier audience that wanted sitting sections. While countries like Germany show that you can have standing sections.
 
He (Duckenfield) isn't the only person being charged. The other 5 are facing charges specifically related to the cover-up, with charges including perverting the course of justice and misconduct in public office. Duckenfield isn't taking the rap alone and no one can turn him into a scapegoat.

95 charges of manslaughter is a terrifying charge to face compared to misconduct. He shouldn't have been in charge on the day because he had been given no training and wasn't familiar with the ground. As far as I know the person who assigned him that duty has never had to account publically for their decision.
 
Yes and the horrific role media played in blaiming the victim and defending the authorities.

The Media didn't play an horrific role, News International and The Sun played an horrific role. You mustn't tar everyone with the same brush. Other elements of the media played key roles in ensuring that justice is eventually being done.
 
The long and winding road.

28 years is a terribly long time to wait. The strength & resolve shown from family and friends of the victims involved is admirable. So much respect for them all.

finally some degree of justice will be given to the victims of the stupid decisions of Hillborough stadium.

I watched the tragedy of the Heizel stadium when I saw people get crushed to death, it is burned on my retina until this day. It was horrendous and I cannot fathom the horror those people must have gone through before they died.
 
Back
Top Bottom