Hillary vs trump

[Donc]

The election is about more than gun rights.

You're arguing with a one trick pony.:2wave:

 

[RabidAlpaca]

Given the choice of a candidate who is a proven liar, who is not afraid to use our political system to achieve her ends...which is really nothing more than her personal desire for power...

and...

a candidate who appeals to those who are dissatisfied with the party establishment who have been running our country for decades with only their own personal enrichment in mind...whether he actually succeeds in implementing remedies...

I have no choice but to vote for Trump.

Oh my god... You think Hillary is a liar and Trump isn't? Literally every word that comes out of either of their mouths is completely fabricated and has no relation to the truth. Seriously have you ever tried fact checking the things Trump says? Feel free to vote for Trump, but don't for a second pretend it's because he's an honest man.

The election is about more than gun rights.

Not for Turtle. He'd vote for satan himself if he promised him he could keep his guns.

Why don't you like Hillary Clinton?

Because she's an insanely corrupt war hawk who has used her political career to make herself fabulously wealthy and will say anything it takes to get into office even if she has no intention of actually doing it. She's the epitome of corrupt money in politics, what's to like?

 

[Gaztopian]

Hillary is the only reasonable choice.

It's scandalizing that we have to go through hoops to convince so many people of that, and we still fail.

Can't wait for Trump in the white house; let's see then what good petulance will do these people.

 

[shrubnose]

I'll be voting for Hillary.

Trump will lose because the hate and fear that he's been spreading will cause a lot of people to go to the polls and vote against him.

 

[coyotedelmar]

Since the question is about only choosing between those two, Hillary by a small landslide. Besides the gag reflex of saying "I could vote for Trump," I also at least have a good idea what to expect from Hillary. Trump I have no idea, my hunch is he'll be pretty center-right (and not the destroying of worlds some folks like to paint him as), but I don't know that so Hillary it is.

 

[shrubnose]

Gary Johnson.

Those who back him will help Hillary Clinton.

 

[shrubnose]

Given the choice of a candidate who is a proven liar, who is not afraid to use our political system to achieve her ends...which is really nothing more than her personal desire for power...

and...

a candidate who appeals to those who are dissatisfied with the party establishment who have been running our country for decades with only their own personal enrichment in mind...whether he actually succeeds in implementing remedies...

I have no choice but to vote for Trump.

The only way that Trump will ever see the inside of the White House is as a guest.




"Better days are coming." ~ But not for today's out of touch,running out of time,GOP.

 

[Mycroft]

How strange that you think Trump does not want to make money from this escapade.

??

What have I said gives you the notion that this is what I think? I said nothing about money.

 

[Mycroft]

Oh my god... You think Hillary is a liar and Trump isn't?

sigh...

Here we go, folks...number two in the "let's put words in Mycroft's mouth" campaign.

Dude...please show me where I said Trump is not a liar or stop wasting my time.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

sigh...

Here we go, folks...number two in the "let's put words in Mycroft's mouth" campaign.

Dude...please show me where I said Trump is not a liar or stop wasting my time.

Ok, here:

Given the choice of a candidate who is a proven liar, who is not afraid to use our political system to achieve her ends...which is really nothing more than her personal desire for power...

and...

a candidate who appeals to those who are dissatisfied with the party establishment who have been running our country for decades with only their own personal enrichment in mind...whether he actually succeeds in implementing remedies...

I have no choice but to vote for Trump.

When you say "given the choice between DESCRIPTOR A and DESCRIPTOR B", you're making a statement of contrast and are implying that these qualities are mutually exclusive. Both are flaming liars, so whether or not they're liars actually has no effect on your vote. You'll vote for a proven compulsive liar because you like the other proven compulsive liar less.

"A proven liar who is not afraid to use our political system to achieve his/her ends" is the perfect descriptor for both Hillary and Trump.

 

[TurtleDude]

TD, you are an attorney. Trump has explicitly and repeatedly discussed and demonstragedy a disdain for the judiciary.

Can you really overlook such?

why not? Hillary thinks that the judiciary should ignore the constitution, and precedent

both suck on that count

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

The only thing I can say is we have a real problem within our system when you are forced to vote least collateral damage. Someone owns this country and it's not the American people.

 

[Mycroft]

Ok, here:



When you say "given the choice between DESCRIPTOR A and DESCRIPTOR B", you're making a statement of contrast and are implying that these qualities are mutually exclusive. Both are flaming liars, so whether or not they're liars actually has no effect on your vote. You'll vote for a proven compulsive liar because you like the other proven compulsive liar less.

"A proven liar who is not afraid to use our political system to achieve his/her ends" is the perfect descriptor for both Hillary and Trump.

I made no such contrast or implication. DESCRIPTOR A applies to one candidate...DESCRIPTOR B applies to the other candidate. I made no indication that either descriptor applied or did not apply to the other candidate.

Face it...admit it...you want to put words in my mouth and you'll advance illogical and ridiculous notions in your attempt to support your tactic.

 

[eohrnberger]

I'd bite the bullet and vote Hillary. Trump is just too much of a buffoon to be our president.

I'd bite the bullet and vote Trump. Hillary is just too corrupt, amoral and scandal ridden to be our president.

 

[Jack Hays]

Those who back him will help Hillary Clinton.

We'll also retain our self-respect.

 

[Russell797]

true-and on every issue that really matters to me Hillary is bad-as to Trump, I cannot tell in each case but he has a chance of being ok while hillary does not


You don't understand my position. if a politician doesn't trust his or her employers to be able to own the same defensive weapons that our tax dollars supply his or her bodyguards with, why should I trust them?

gun rights is a seminal issue with many of us and if the government doesn't trust us to own such weapons, I can never trust that government

Give me one reason why I should trust a total stranger with a gun. I don't trust people behind the wheel of a car or truck so why should I trust someone with a gun, particularly someone I know nothing about. I can drive defensively to help protect myself from other drivers I share the road with. How do I act defensively to someone with a gun, or a whole society filled with guns?

Really all I can do is hope the low odds of my being shot work out in my favor. Otherwise I am a sitting duck.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Give me one reason why I should trust a total stranger with a gun. I don't trust people behind the wheel of a car or truck so why should I trust someone with a gun, particularly someone I know nothing about. I can drive defensively to help protect myself from other drivers I share the road with. How do I act defensively to someone with a gun, or a whole society filled with guns?

Really all I can do is hope the low odds of my being shot work out in my favor. Otherwise I am a sitting duck.

Obviously they have so far. What you can do is question why convicted folks deemed so dangerous that they must never be able to get hold of a gun are allowed to roam freely among us.

 

[calamity]

I'd bite the bullet and vote Trump. Hillary is just too corrupt, amoral and scandal ridden to be our president.

Lol...as if Trump isn't?

 

[Russell797]

Obviously they have so far. What you can do is question why convicted folks deemed so dangerous that they must never be able to get hold of a gun are allowed to roam freely among us.

The question is should I trust people with a guns. With 300,000,000 guns out there it is inevitable that people with bad intentions will have them. Drunks will have them, mental cases will have them, angry people will have them, estranged boy friends and husbands with have them etc. Convicted felons will be able to obtain them illegally.

No sir, I have no reason to trust people with guns. I just have to accept the reality of the threat they represent and hope for the best. Over 30,000 people lose that bet every single year in this country.

 

[ttwtt78640]

The question is should I trust people with a guns. With 300,000,000 guns out there it is inevitable that people with bad intentions will have them. Drunks will have them, mental cases will have them, angry people will have them, estranged boy friends and husbands with have them etc. Convicted felons will be able to obtain them illegally.

No sir, I have no reason to trust people with guns. I just have to accept the reality of the threat they represent and hope for the best. Over 30,000 people lose that bet every single year in this country.

I was not implying that you should trust anyone, least of all those that would fail a background check. My point was that placing known to be violent and dangerous convicted folks on "no gun" lists and then letting them roam freely among us to be stopped from getting guns only by a background check is not going to help much. You also have no reason not to trust the vast majority of gun owners.

BTW, most (21K?) of those 30K gun deaths are suicides, so unless you don't trust yourself that ups your odds quite a bit.

FastStats - Suicide and Self-Inflicted Injury

 

[Bülow]

Between Hillary and Trump, I'd honestly prefer another four years of Obama.

Hillary is another four years of Obama. They're indistinguishable ideologically.

 

[Russell797]

I was not implying that you should trust anyone, least of all those that would fail a background check. My point was that placing known to be violent and dangerous convicted folks on "no gun" lists and then letting them roam freely among us to be stopped from getting guns only by a background check is not going to help much. You also have no reason not to trust the vast majority of gun owners.

BTW, most (21K?) of those 30K gun deaths are suicides, so unless you don't trust yourself that ups your odds quite a bit.

FastStats - Suicide and Self-Inflicted Injury

I don't disagree with any of that with one exception. To the bold text....I can't at the same time not trust people with guns and also trust them. Either I do or I don't. I don't. The odds of my being shot go up when a gun is present no matter how small an increase that may be. My odds of dying in a plane crash go up when I board a plane. We acknowledge those risks and accept them but I still feel uneasy about boarding a plane or being in the presence of a gun. Why? Because I sense danger. Planes do crash and people with guns do kill others with them. Accidentally or not.

 

[shrubnose]

I'd bite the bullet and vote Trump.

Hillary is just too corrupt, amoral and scandal ridden to be our president.

You're backing a bigoted xenophobe who will get his backside handed to him in November.

Lots of people (Including me.) will be voting against Trump for the same reasons that others will be voting for him.

:lol:

 

[ttwtt78640]

I don't disagree with any of that with one exception. To the bold text....I can't at the same time not trust people with guns and also trust them. Either I do or I don't. I don't. The odds of my being shot go up when a gun is present no matter how small an increase that may be. My odds of dying in a plane crash go up when I board a plane. We acknowledge those risks and accept them but I still feel uneasy about boarding a plane or being in the presence of a gun. Why? Because I sense danger. Planes do crash and people with guns do kill others with them. Accidentally or not.

OK, I can't trust convicted felons (or those that are deemed not criminally responsible due to mental illness) even if they are placed in a "no gun" list, therefore I choose to own a gun. If that choice helps to keep you or, more importantly, violent criminals or the insane from paying me a successful visit then I am fine with that.

 

[TurtleDude]

Give me one reason why I should trust a total stranger with a gun. I don't trust people behind the wheel of a car or truck so why should I trust someone with a gun, particularly someone I know nothing about. I can drive defensively to help protect myself from other drivers I share the road with. How do I act defensively to someone with a gun, or a whole society filled with guns?

Really all I can do is hope the low odds of my being shot work out in my favor. Otherwise I am a sitting duck.

because 99.9% of them have and will never harm you and the .01% that might aren't going to worry about your stupid gun control laws if they don't worry about harming you illegally.