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Hillary must pick Bernie for VP: She may even need him more than he needs her [W:33]

Abbazorkzog

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Hillary must pick Bernie for VP: She may even need him more than he needs her

Yes, it's time for Democrats to unite, but also for Hillary to recognize she needs help with the progressive base

It’s time to bury the hatchet, Democrats. Supporters of Sen. Bernie Sanders need to accept that Hillary Clinton has the nomination all but sewn up, and Clinton’s supporters need to stop counting delegates long enough to face the fact that Sanders won the policy debate, hands down. With the end of the primary season just weeks away, the two candidates need to brush themselves off, shake hands, and begin quietly preparing to take on Republican nominee Donald Trump together – with Clinton at the top of the ticket and Sanders as her running mate.

I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here (sort of) and call out both Bernie's and Clinton's die-hard supporters.

If the most extremist of Bernie's supporters don't tone it down a little bit and chill-out, and realize that this is only the beginning, and that so much good can still happen, this movement is going to commit suicide. Part of being a good revolutionary is keeping a cool head in a crisis situation. This is anything but (although it could still develop into that if this fissure continues to grow). It is time for Democrats (who support Hillary and Bernie) and Independents (who support Bernie) to act as a unified front against Donald Trump.

This is the best-case scenario, with Hillary's negatives increasing and Trump forging ahead.

Yes, Bernie Sanders may have been cheated out of the nomination (but he may not have).
Yes, Donald Trump is indeed being boosted because of the deep division on the left/centre.
No, Hillary Clinton is not perfect. She is far from it.
And, yes, Clinton supporters, the more moderate of the Bernie support base is aware that Sanders cannot win at this point in time, and that some of our fellow supporters are behaving irrationally and downright inappropriate. But Bernie Sanders and his support are not the immediate threat...

...the threat here is that Donald J. Trump could still become President of the United States.

This petty squabbling is spilling over the point of safe-return, the window to provide a truly powerful and united front against the rise of outright fascism in this country is quickly closing. To those of you saying this is unrealistic, or shouldn't happen for any number of biased reasons - not only are you providing an in for Trump to exploiting this division within the Party, you are actively helping him.

Prove to me that having Bernie on her ticket would further divide the Party. I don't think you can, but if that were the case, that would only lend credence to mine and many others' suspicions that the Democratic Party is just as Fascistic, Divisive and Authoritarian as Donald Trump is - and even that Trump and Clinton are cooperating together in some capacity.

Either way, you are part of the problem (whether you devoutly support Bernie or Hillary).

Time to swallow your pride and grow up, and realize that at some point there has to be some form of a mature and non-childish compromise. To realize at this point that the much bigger threat is not the perception these candidates and their supporters have of each other...

...it is a Trump Presidency.

I'm also going to take the time to admit that I was wrong about Hillary being the biggest threat (if she has the pragmatism to choose Bernie for VP, like I am fairly sure she will do), and make the claim that it is in fact Donald Trump himself.

Continued in next post...
 

Abbazorkzog

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Re: Hillary must pick Bernie for VP: She may even need him more than he needs her - S

Trump is running in an attempt to prove that Dictatorship is the only truly effective form of government, and he intends to do just that.

That should scare you.

The simple fact that he can exploit this persistent division within the Party to do just that, should scare you even more.

The opening move will have to come from Sanders. As it stands, if the latest kerfuffle over the party’s handling of the delegate count in Nevada is any indication, Sanders appears prepared to go to the mattresses in an all-out war for the top spot on the ticket. This is foolish. He has come too far, and achieved too much, to throw it all away on yet another principled defeat. There is an obvious compromise that gives everyone most of what they want: Sanders, the runner-up, agrees to throw in the towel in exchange for the vice presidential nod. That way, Clinton gets the nomination without another bruising and potentially embarrassing fight, while Sanders gets to inject his policy agenda into the general election campaign, not merely as a few carefully vetted planks in the party platform, but directly from the hustings as a member of the ticket.

This way, the only loser is Trump.

So, in a way, everybody still wins.

Trump may be better than an all-Clinton administration (but I'm not even so sure of this any more), but the man is obviously mentally-unstable, narcissist, self-serving, authoritarian, racist, bigoted and unpredictable.

All of these are disqualifications for a contemporary American President, let alone the most powerful human-being on our planet...

Bernie Sanders Drops His Biggest Hint Yet That He Is Open To Being Hillary Clinton’s VP

With party divided, Clinton doesn't rule out Sanders as VP pick

Bernie Sanders as Hillary Clinton’s VP — he seems willing, and she should be

Sanders leaves door open to being Clinton's VP

Bit of a shocker — Bernie Sanders is the early favorite to be Hillary Clinton’s running mate

Bernie’s The Early Favorite For Clinton’s Running Mate — Rasmussen

Whatever happens, Sanders will be a force at the convention

A Plea to Pick Bernie Sanders for V.P. Nominee

I fear that the Democratic establishment may very well cost us the election with its exclusive support of Hillary Clinton. Donald Trump was ignored as a serious candidate month after month while he went on to win state after state. Today, with the Republican nomination wrapped up, he is still being dismissed as an opponent who can’t beat Hillary.

No, this is not a "#BernieOrBust" post, before the devout Clintonites attempt that biased weaksause-card again.
Like it or not, this is about as "NeverTrump" as it gets.

You want to commit political suicide, candidate zealots? By all means, argue for keeping one or the other off the ticket.

You underestimate this beast at your own peril.

Time is running out.

"E pluribus unum"
 

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Re: Hillary must pick Bernie for VP: She may even need him more than he needs her - S

Ridiculous fear mongering coupled with opinionated bs that is wrong.
 

Abbazorkzog

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Re: Hillary must pick Bernie for VP: She may even need him more than he needs her - S

Ridiculous fear mongering coupled with opinionated bs that is wrong.

Okay, so what is it that is wrong? Tell us, "O Wise and Almighty Infallible Excon"...

:roll:
 

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Re: Hillary must pick Bernie for VP: She may even need him more than he needs her - S

Ridiculous fear mongering coupled with opinionated bs that is wrong.

Actually...a lot of what he said is absolutely on the mark...and none of it is fear mongering. The dangers he warns of are real and rightly should be addressed by the progressive side of the political aisle.

I do disagree with his primary conclusion.
 

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Re: Hillary must pick Bernie for VP: She may even need him more than he needs her - S

I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here (sort of) and call out both Bernie's and Clinton's die-hard supporters.

If the most extremist of Bernie's supporters don't tone it down a little bit and chill-out, and realize that this is only the beginning, and that so much good can still happen, this movement is going to commit suicide. Part of being a good revolutionary is keeping a cool head in a crisis situation. This is anything but (although it could still develop into that if this fissure continues to grow). It is time for Democrats (who support Hillary and Bernie) and Independents (who support Bernie) to act as a unified front against Donald Trump.

This is the best-case scenario, with Hillary's negatives increasing and Trump forging ahead.

Yes, Bernie Sanders may have been cheated out of the nomination (but he may not have).
Yes, Donald Trump is indeed being boosted because of the deep division on the left/centre.
No, Hillary Clinton is not perfect. She is far from it.
And, yes, Clinton supporters, the more moderate of the Bernie support base is aware that Sanders cannot win at this point in time, and that some of our fellow supporters are behaving irrationally and downright inappropriate. But Bernie Sanders and his support are not the immediate threat...

...the threat here is that Donald J. Trump could still become President of the United States.

This petty squabbling is spilling over the point of safe-return, the window to provide a truly powerful and united front against the rise of outright fascism in this country is quickly closing. To those of you saying this is unrealistic, or shouldn't happen for any number of biased reasons - not only are you providing an in for Trump to exploiting this division within the Party, you are actively helping him.

I do not think Hillary will choose Bernie as her vice-presidential partner. Two people from the northeast alone would be a turn-off for many important states that may still be in play.

I personally think the inclusion of Bernie on the ticket would be a kiss of death. It is my opinion that the "socialist" label is much more toxic than you think.

I think Bernie has already made a significant contribution by forcing both Hillary and the party to reassess their position with the left most part of the party. I think the party will make further concessions at the convention to Bernie...and allow him a prime time slot to advocate for the left most considerations.
 

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Re: Hillary must pick Bernie for VP: She may even need him more than he needs her - S

Okay, so what is it that is wrong? Tell us, "O Wise and Almighty Infallible Excon"...

:roll:

Well gee, how about we start with the first ridiculous sentence of your second post.

Trump is running in an attempt to prove that Dictatorship is the only truly effective form of government, and he intends to do just that.

That should scare you.

That is your opinion and is not supported by any known facts.

Secondly, it is ridiculously absurd because the President can't be a dictator as our Government is not structured that way.
We have the House and the Senate, which I am sure Trump is very much aware of.





Actually...a lot of what he said is absolutely on the mark...and none of it is fear mongering. The dangers he warns of are real and rightly should be addressed by the progressive side of the political aisle.
No. Just no.
And the first sentence in his second post is fear mongering bs.
 
Last edited:

Abbazorkzog

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Re: Hillary must pick Bernie for VP: She may even need him more than he needs her - S

Well gee, how about we start with the first ridiculous sentence of your second post.


That is your opinion and is not supported by any known facts.

I guess besides the plethora of political experts saying the same thing vs. You...

The complete guide to how Trump can make himself the first American dictator

Donald Trump: Dictatorship, American Style | National Review

Donald Trump has all the attributes of a potential dictator - and a lot of Americans seem curiously attracted to him

Donald Trump, Dictator?

Will A Trump Presidency Bring Openly Oligarchic Dictatorship? | The Daily Caller

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ump-raise-voices-against-dictator-vicente-fox

http://www.redstate.com/diary/ArchTriumph/2016/03/28/donald-trump-fits-historical-pattern-dictator/

...his plethora of backers deriding the US government...

http://www.juancole.com/2016/02/the...servatism-and-the-rise-of-the-demagogues.html

https://mikeinoshkosh.wordpress.com...on-an-outgrowth-of-gops-anti-government-wing/

...and his numerous appeals to Putinist forms of government.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/18/politics/donald-trump-vladimir-putin-bromance/

http://theweek.com/articles/625278/trumps-favorite-foreign-leader

http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/28/politics/donald-trump-russia-putin/

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/23/world/americas/donald-trump-mexico.html

http://www.politico.com/magazine/st...-today-rt-kremlin-media-vladimir-putin-213833

I might actually start another thread on this since it is kind of deviant from the major topic: that Bernie should be Hillary's VP.
 

Abbazorkzog

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Re: Hillary must pick Bernie for VP: She may even need him more than he needs her - S

I do not think Hillary will choose Bernie as her vice-presidential partner. Two people from the northeast alone would be a turn-off for many important states that may still be in play.

I personally think the inclusion of Bernie on the ticket would be a kiss of death. It is my opinion that the "socialist" label is much more toxic than you think.

I think Bernie has already made a significant contribution by forcing both Hillary and the party to reassess their position with the left most part of the party. I think the party will make further concessions at the convention to Bernie...and allow him a prime time slot to advocate for the left most considerations.

I still think that Hillary and her supporters will find that the pros and cons of having Bernie on her ticket equalize much better than risking a massive chunk of her support and Independents voting Trump into the White House... and, honestly, it seems to me that having a 'socialist' agenda on Hillary's platform without a unifier of this demographic would in fact be much, much, much worse (especially considering her Wall Street ties and war-hawk/imperialist foreign policy) on her than it ever would be on Bernie, who could easily be underestimated due to his mild-mannered nature and pacifist approach.
 

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Re: Hillary must pick Bernie for VP: She may even need him more than he needs her - S

And again. Opinion, not supported by known facts.
You haven't shown otherwise.
 

Abbazorkzog

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Re: Hillary must pick Bernie for VP: She may even need him more than he needs her - S

And again. Opinion, not supported by known facts.
You haven't shown otherwise.

...Are you just going to keep spewing "Opinion!" or are you actually going to contribute as to why you think this (besides the obvious)?
 

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Re: Hillary must pick Bernie for VP: She may even need him more than he needs her - S

...Are you just going to keep spewing "Opinion!" or are you actually going to contribute as to why you think this (besides the obvious)?
My contribution was already made.
You failed repeatedly to refute it.

Your opinion is not supported by facts.
You then providing linked opinions to support your opinion when they are not "facts", was hilarious.
What was even more funny is that you thought posting a bunch of links without actually quoting from them (to establish whatever it is you were attempting to establish) was honest debate. iLOL
 

Abbazorkzog

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Re: Hillary must pick Bernie for VP: She may even need him more than he needs her - S


Your? Wat? You mean the Trump collective. All Hail Our Lord and Saviour Donald Trump... right?

contribution

:lamo :lamo :lamo

was already made.

You mean the Trump Agenda. Ethno-Nationalist Authoritarianism and an all-powerful Trump administration that has the power to censor the information you see and circulate.

You failed repeatedly to refute it.

Because there's nothing to refute
, just more hot-air as is typical of you and your types.

Your opinion is not supported by facts.

And your argument is invalid because you cannot prove that this was an idea that I came up with, nor can you prove that I was attempting to push it as anything more than a possibility.

You then providing linked opinions to support your opinion when they are not "facts", was hilarious.

At least they support it. :shrug: I think your cynical emotionalism is a tad extremist in nature.

What was even more funny is that you thought posting a bunch of links without actually quoting from them (to establish whatever it is you were attempting to establish) was honest debate. iLOL

Well, seeing how I do that 90% of the time, it is reassuring to know I am an honest-debater 90% of the time.

Then there are the 10% of those here that are trolls that I honestly don't feel very compelled to waste too much of an effort on...
 

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Re: Hillary must pick Bernie for VP: She may even need him more than he needs her - S

I still think that Hillary and her supporters will find that the pros and cons of having Bernie on her ticket equalize much better than risking a massive chunk of her support and Independents voting Trump into the White House... and, honestly, it seems to me that having a 'socialist' agenda on Hillary's platform without a unifier of this demographic would in fact be much, much, much worse (especially considering her Wall Street ties and war-hawk/imperialist foreign policy) on her than it ever would be on Bernie, who could easily be underestimated due to his mild-mannered nature and pacifist approach.

With all the respect in the world, Abba...I think you are underestimating the negative aspect of the "socialist" label on the electorate.

I may be wrong in this, but I am convinced that NO person using the identifier "socialist"...no matter how that word is qualified...can be elected president right now.

I wish it were not so...but it is my opinion that it is.

I do not want to take the chance. Better to take the chance that some Bernie supporters will bolt. I think the ones in up-for-grabs states will hold their noses and vote for Hillary.

Trump...the Republicans...CANNOT be allowed to take the White House.
 

Abbazorkzog

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Re: Hillary must pick Bernie for VP: She may even need him more than he needs her - S

With all the respect in the world, Abba...I think you are underestimating the negative aspect of the "socialist" label on the electorate.

I may be wrong in this, but I am convinced that NO person using the identifier "socialist"...no matter how that word is qualified...can be elected president right now.

I wish it were not so...but it is my opinion that it is.

I do not want to take the chance. Better to take the chance that some Bernie supporters will bolt. I think the ones in up-for-grabs states will hold their noses and vote for Hillary.

Trump...the Republicans...CANNOT be allowed to take the White House.

The same people going by that logic are the same people that were saying a few months ago that Trump would never be GOP nominee... at this point it is riskier NOT to take the chance. If an all-around, well-balanced, well-liked Clinton-Sanders ticket does not result from this process, we will be looking at the two most-disliked frontrunners in history running against one another, and the inevitability of a third-party contender splitting the vote and all-but guaranteeing Trump the White House...

:shrug:

1999 says hello.

:shrug: Just sayin...
 

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Stupid **** by Abbazorkzog.

Your? Wat? You mean the Trump collective. All Hail Our Lord and Saviour Donald Trump... right?

lamo lamo lamo

You mean the Trump Agenda. Ethno-Nationalist Authoritarianism and an all-powerful Trump administration that has the power to censor the information you see and circulate.
Now you are just showing that you have no clue as to what you speak.


Because there's nothing to refute, just more hot-air as is typical of you and your types.
Stop projecting. You couldn't refute because what you said was all hot air.


And your argument is invalid because you cannot prove that this was an idea that I came up with, nor can you prove that I was attempting to push it as anything more than a possibility.
Oy vey! Thus showing that you understand what I said was correct. "Your opinion is not supported by facts."


At least they support it.
They opined, not supported. Learn the difference.


Well, seeing how I do that 90% of the time, it is reassuring to know I am an honest-debater 90% of the time.

Then there are the 10% of those here that are trolls that I honestly don't feel very compelled to waste too much of an effort on...
More opinion not supported by facts. Figures.
 

Abbazorkzog

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Re: Stupid **** by Abbazorkzog.

Now you are just showing that you have no clue as to what you speak.


Stop projecting. You couldn't refute because what you said was all hot air.


Oy vey! Thus showing that you understand what I said was correct. "Your opinion is not supported by facts."


They opined, not supported. Learn the difference.


More opinion not supported by facts. Figures.

All I see here is more Trumpism.

Since you seem inclined to focus on this issue (which isn't the point of this thread) I went ahead and made a separate thread, feel special yet?

Let's move this discussion there to keep this thread from becoming further derailed, shall we?
 

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Excon

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Re: Stupid **** by Abbazorkzog.

I went ahead and made a separate thread

This thread is not even about Trump. Do you see 'Trump' anywhere in the thread title?
Now you want to be deliberately dishonest? WTF?

Trump is the rally cry behind your post and is brought up 10 times in the first post alone.
And you say this thread is not about Trump. Hilarious.
 

Abbazorkzog

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Re: Stupid **** by Abbazorkzog.

Now you want to be deliberately dishonest? WTF?

Trump is the rally cry behind your post and is brought up 10 times in the first post alone.
And you say this thread is not about Trump. Hilarious.

1) Trump is mentioned a total of 15 times between the 2 OP's.
2) Clinton is mentioned a total of 30 times.
3) Bernie, a total of 35 times.
4) You're gonna have the gall to come into my thread topic, that I started, and tell me that what I am talking about in my OP, "is not actually what I am talking about"... how ****ing stupid do you think I am?
5) The more you continue to post off-topic/topic-derailing posts for the sake of being a smartass troll, the more you're going to get reported for:
-5a: Baiting.
-5b: Trolling.
-5c: Harassment.
-5d: going off topic.

...until you move the discussion to its proper place (and, ironically enough, I was planning on starting an entire thread devoted SPECIFICALLY to that theory).
 

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Re: Stupid **** by Abbazorkzog.

1) Trump is mentioned a total of 15 times between the 2 OP's.
2) Clinton is mentioned a total of 30 times.
3) Bernie, a total of 35 times.
4) You're gonna have the gall to come into my thread topic, that I started, and tell me that what I am talking about in my OP, "is not actually what I am talking about"... how ****ing stupid do you think I am?
5) The more you continue to post off-topic/topic-derailing posts for the sake of being a smartass troll, the more you're going to get reported for:
-5a: Baiting.
-5b: Trolling.
-5c: Harassment.
-5d: going off topic.

...until you move the discussion to its proper place (and, ironically enough, I was planning on starting an entire thread devoted SPECIFICALLY to that theory).
Trump is the impetus behind your desire to unify.
That is why he is mentioned. Do you deny that?
Your words.
"...the threat here is that Donald J. Trump could still become President of the United States."

You then continue with false claims about Trump.

"Trump is running in an attempt to prove that Dictatorship is the only truly effective form of government, and he intends to do just that."

and


" ... but the man is obviously mentally-unstable, narcissist, self-serving, authoritarian, racist, bigoted and unpredictable."


Don't absurdly tell me Trump has nothing to do with this thread when you yourself made him a part of this thread in your own damn OP.
 

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Re: Stupid **** by Abbazorkzog.

Don't absurdly tell me Trump has nothing to do with this thread...

Aaaaaand more trolling. Nowhere did I say 'Trump has nothing to do' with the thread.

You are wanting to make this about Trump, so you take the weakest (self-admittedly) part of the thread and drag it out of proportion to what the thread is actually about (unifying the Dems), because it's all you have.

Reported.
 

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Re: Stupid **** by Abbazorkzog.

Aaaaaand more trolling. Nowhere did I say 'Trump has nothing to do' with the thread.

You are wanting to make this about Trump, so you take the weakest (self-admittedly) part of the thread and drag it out of proportion to what the thread is actually about (unifying the Dems), because it's all you have.

Reported.
Wrong.
You made it about Trump which is what I responded to.
You could not refute what I said or even support what you claimed.
Now all you are doing is complaining because you couldn't do either.
 

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Re: Stupid **** by Abbazorkzog.

Wrong.
You made it about Trump which is what I responded to.
You could not refute what I said or even support what you claimed.
Now all you are doing is complaining because you couldn't do either.

Your second post (upon me asking you to elaborate):

Well gee, how about we start with the first ridiculous sentence of your second post.


That is your opinion and is not supported by any known facts.

Which is ironic because your first post was an opinion as well.

:lamo

Reported.

(Why do you do this in every single thread?)
 
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