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Hillary is Sick of Bernie's Lies

You don't think those oil companies have numerous ways to get around that?

Look at this:

* 58 registered oil, coal and gas lobbyists have personally given $138,400 to the Clinton campaign. Of those 58, 11 are bundlers.

* 11 lobbyists have bundled $1,327,210 in contributions to the Clinton campaign.

* 43 lobbyists have contributed the maximum allowed ($2,700).

Hillary Clinton?s Connections to the Oil and Gas Industry - Greenpeace USA
No, they have no way to get around it. Each individual can only give a maximum on $2,700, end of story.

Check your own numbers. The 58 lobbyist gave less than $2,700 each.

A bundler simply collects individual donations and presents them as a bundle. Nothing to see there. The individual amounts still have to be reported.
 
His party has corporate ties...and without his party...he ain't gonna get nothing done.

And his party has been attempting to out and hinder him wherever and whenever possible in this nomination process; thus far the DNC's bias has been both blatant and overwhelming, so... what's your point?

Bernie's campaign is unmarred unlike Hillary's, and, unfortunately for you, no amount of willful misrepresentation or deflection will change that basic fact.


By the metrics Greenpeace (and apparently Bernie) use, yes.

Though I understand it's difficult for you as a Hillary apologist, let's not be disingenuous. The real problem Bernie and Greenpeace have is with the millions in effective aggregate funding the campaign benefits from between bundlers and PACs. Individual donations are negligible.
 
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And his party has been attempting to out and hinder him wherever and whenever possible in this nomination process; thus far the DNC's bias has been both blatant and overwhelming, so... what's your point?

Bernie's campaign is unmarred unlike Hillary's, and, unfortunately for you, no amount of willful misrepresentation or deflection will change that basic fact.



The Democrat party has never tried to oust Sanders....quite the opposite. They prevented other democrats from running against him and pumped money into his campaign and the Democrat party in his state. In return he has hosted fund raisers at high end resorts for the corporate elite...and voted along party lines 95% of the time.
 
The Democrat party has never tried to oust Sanders....quite the opposite. They prevented other democrats from running against him and pumped money into his campaign and the Democrat party in his state. In return he has hosted fund raisers at high end resorts for the corporate elite...and voted along party lines 95% of the time.

Hilariously disingenuous: are you really going to try to make the argument that the DNC does not blatantly favour Hillary? That they haven't made an earnest attempt to skew things in her favour as much as is possible within the constraint of the law and optics?

Second, where is the evidence that the DNC prevented people from running against him and his campaign specifically (as opposed to minimizing the field in opposition to Hillary)? If you're talking about his Senate position, that's more a strategic decision than a 'favour'.

Third, it is absolutely asinine and laughable to assert that Bernie voted as he did exclusively or even mostly due to the DNC's support (really more the lackthereof relative to Hillary) in this nomination process rather than out of his convictions and judgment.
 
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Hilariously disingenuous: are you really going to try to make the argument that the DNC does not blatantly favour Hillary? That they haven't made an earnest attempt to skew things in her favour as much as is possible within the constraint of the law and optics?

Second, where is the evidence that the DNC prevented people from running against him and his campaign specifically (as opposed to minimizing the field in opposition to Hillary)? If you're talking about his Senate position, that's more a strategic decision than a 'favour'.

Third, it is absolutely asinine and laughable to assert that Bernie voted as he did exclusively or even mostly due to the DNC's support (really more the lackthereof relative to Hillary) in this nomination process rather than out of his convictions and judgment.

Has Bernie declared himself to be a Democrat? Has he fund raised for the DNC? If not, then why should the DNC help him at all?


Anyway, my point is that Sanders has accepted donations from the fossil fuel industry, too....



And...not only has Sanders attended..but he has hosted annual DSCC fund raisers at high end resorts for corporate donors and accepted and received corporate donations for his senate campaigns for years. Some of the top donors include Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, JP Morgan and Citigroup executives...and not once did Sanders refuse to accept their money.....

"...In recent years, Sanders has been billed as one of the hosts for the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee's retreats for the "Majority Trust" -- an elite group of top donors who give more than $30,000 per year -- at Martha's Vineyard in the summer and Palm Beach, Florida, in the winter. CNN has obtained invitations that listed Sanders as a host for at least one Majority Trust event in each year since 2011....

In 2006, when Sanders ran for the Senate, the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee pumped $37,300 into his race and included him in fundraising efforts for the party's Senate candidates. The party also spent $60,000 on ads for Sanders, and contributed $100,000 to the Vermont Democratic Party -- which was behind Sanders even as he ran as an independent.

Among the DSCC's top contributors that year: Goldman Sachs at $685,000, Citigroup at $326,000, Morgan Stanley at $260,000 and JPMorgan Chase & Co. at $207,000...."

Bernie Sanders: Prolific Democratic Party fundraiser - CNNPolitics.com


The only reason Sanders doesn't have a Super PAC is because he's sitting senator. So it's disingenuous for him to say that he refused to have a Super Pac, when as a Federal officer he wouldn't have been permitted to have one anyway....

A Question on Bernie Sanders and Super PACs — The People's View


Now let's hear your apologies for Bernie.
 
Has Bernie declared himself to be a Democrat? Has he fund raised for the DNC? If not, then why should the DNC help him at all?


Anyway, my point is that Sanders has accepted donations from the fossil fuel industry, too....



And...not only has Sanders attended..but he has hosted annual DSCC fund raisers at high end resorts for corporate donors and accepted and received corporate donations for his senate campaigns for years. Some of the top donors include Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, JP Morgan and Citigroup executives...and not once did Sanders refuse to accept their money.....

"...In recent years, Sanders has been billed as one of the hosts for the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee's retreats for the "Majority Trust" -- an elite group of top donors who give more than $30,000 per year -- at Martha's Vineyard in the summer and Palm Beach, Florida, in the winter. CNN has obtained invitations that listed Sanders as a host for at least one Majority Trust event in each year since 2011....

In 2006, when Sanders ran for the Senate, the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee pumped $37,300 into his race and included him in fundraising efforts for the party's Senate candidates. The party also spent $60,000 on ads for Sanders, and contributed $100,000 to the Vermont Democratic Party -- which was behind Sanders even as he ran as an independent.

Among the DSCC's top contributors that year: Goldman Sachs at $685,000, Citigroup at $326,000, Morgan Stanley at $260,000 and JPMorgan Chase & Co. at $207,000...."

Bernie Sanders: Prolific Democratic Party fundraiser - CNNPolitics.com


The only reason Sanders doesn't have a Super PAC is because he's sitting senator. So it's disingenuous for him to say that he refused to have a Super Pac, when as a Federal officer he wouldn't have been permitted to have one anyway....

A Question on Bernie Sanders and Super PACs — The People's View


Now let's hear your apologies for Bernie.

Your point is that Bernie accepted individual donations from people working in fossil fuels totaling ~$53k vs Clinton who has benefited to the tune of millions in this cycle even omitting individual donations from employees in that industry; it's a complete non-starter, and drawing attention to this only highlights the extent of Clinton's debt to it rather than Bernie's.

Second, as I have constantly reiterated, Bernie's associating with general DNC fundraising does not leave him beholden to special interests nor does it in any way meaningfully contaminate his candidacy. Though I cannot speak for the party, he himself owes nothing to corporate interests, neither on the basis of his Senator position, nor his campaign as neither were bankrolled by said interests; in otherwords you are making a transparent and disingenuous attempt to draw a false equivalency between him and Clinton.
 
Your point is that Bernie accepted individual donations from people working in fossil fuels totaling ~$53k vs Clinton who has benefited to the tune of millions in this cycle even omitting individual donations from employees in that industry; it's a complete non-starter, and drawing attention to this only highlights the extent of Clinton's debt to it rather than Bernie's.
If individual donations are a non starter for Clinton then they are for Bernie, too.


Bernie's campaign accepted individual donations from the same industries that Clinton did (see list below). So if she got more individual donations than Sanders then it's probably because more people like her more than they do him. duh!



Commercial banks: $120,266

Education: $2,503,620

Electronic Mfg: $1,043,381

Health professionals: $1,117,431

Health Services & HMO's: $170,483

Hospitals & nursing homes: $567,101

Insurance: $142,019

Internet: $496,711

Lawyers & law firms: $1,012,393

Lobbyists: $11,949

Oil & Gas: $53,760

Pharmaceuticals: $132,708

Real Estate: $442,374

Retired: $3,094,249

Securities & investments: $178,653

Telephone & utilities: $78,061

Tobacco: $766

TV & movies: $653,840


Total: $11,819,765



Second, as I have constantly reiterated, Bernie's associating with general DNC fundraising does not leave him beholden to special interests nor does it in any way meaningfully contaminate his candidacy. Though I cannot speak for the party, he himself owes nothing to corporate interests, neither on the basis of his Senator position, nor his campaign as neither were bankrolled by said interests; in otherwords you are making a transparent and disingenuous attempt to draw a false equivalency between him and Clinton.

The point is...Bernie hasn't done any fund raising for the DNC at all...but Hillary has. The money she's raised for the DNC will be used for whoever wins the nomination in the general election. So if Bernie by some remote chance wins and expects the DNC to help support him in the general election...then he'll not only be beholden to the DNC and it's corporate donors...but Hillary as well. Somehow, I don't think even Bernie the socialist expects their support for free.
 
If individual donations are a non starter for Clinton then they are for Bernie, too.


Bernie's campaign accepted individual donations from the same industries that Clinton did (see list below). So if she got more individual donations than Sanders then it's probably because more people like her more than they do him. duh!



Commercial banks: $120,266

Education: $2,503,620

Electronic Mfg: $1,043,381

Health professionals: $1,117,431

Health Services & HMO's: $170,483

Hospitals & nursing homes: $567,101

Insurance: $142,019

Internet: $496,711

Lawyers & law firms: $1,012,393

Lobbyists: $11,949

Oil & Gas: $53,760

Pharmaceuticals: $132,708

Real Estate: $442,374

Retired: $3,094,249

Securities & investments: $178,653

Telephone & utilities: $78,061

Tobacco: $766

TV & movies: $653,840


Total: $11,819,765

It seems that the point either went completely over your head, or you're doing your utmost to make another disingenuous smear; it's hard to determine which.

Did you not see the part of my post where I said, quite clearly and plainly, that Clinton, outside of individual donors, effectively received millions from the fossil fuel industry, whereas Bernie did not get a penny? I am not counting individual donors against either candidate since the amount of material influence that can be exerted by that avenue is tiny or negligible; when you look beyond individual donors, things rapidly get ugly for Hillary, while Bernie essentially has nothing but Union funding that is trivial in comparison to the corporate coffers she is wallowing in.

The point is...Bernie hasn't done any fund raising for the DNC at all...but Hillary has. The money she's raised for the DNC will be used for whoever wins the nomination in the general election. So if Bernie by some remote chance wins and expects the DNC to help support him in the general election...then he'll not only be beholden to the DNC and it's corporate donors...but Hillary as well. Somehow, I don't think even Bernie the socialist expects their support for free.

He will expect the DNC's support with no strings attached, no perversions of his policy or agenda, or he will not take their money; it is that simple. The only true avenue of influence Hillary and the DNC have with respect to Bernie is policy compromise stemming from representation of her voters who pivot to support him in the general, much as I would expect Hillary to compromise on policy with Bernie in order to earn his endorsement and supporters in the event she wins.
 
It seems that the point either went completely over your head, or you're doing your utmost to make another disingenuous smear; it's hard to determine which.
Well, I can't tell if you're willfully ignoring the evidence or just a little naïve Bernie supporter.

Did you not see the part of my post where I said, quite clearly and plainly, that Clinton, outside of individual donors, effectively received millions from the fossil fuel industry, whereas Bernie did not get a penny? I am not counting individual donors against either candidate since the amount of material influence that can be exerted by that avenue is tiny or negligible; when you look beyond individual donors, things rapidly get ugly for Hillary, while Bernie essentially has nothing but Union funding that is trivial in comparison to the corporate coffers she is wallowing in.
A union Super PAC is still a super PAC. So when Bernie says,..“I’m the only candidate up here…who has no super PAC,”...he's lying.

"..Mrs. Clinton says outside contributions supporting her campaign don’t influence her judgment. Mr. Sanders says that, for him, such contributions don’t exist. “I’m the only candidate up here…who has no super PAC,” he said Thursday during a Democratic debate. He may not have formed one of his own, but Mr. Sanders is getting help from National Nurses United for Patient Protection, a super PAC that gets its money from the nation’s largest nurses’ union, with nearly 185,000 members..."

Yet the Vermont senator has benefited from at least $1.5 million in backing from super PACs and from political groups that don’t have to fully disclose their donors, according to filings with the Federal Election Commission..."​


And when Bernie says he isn't beholden to Super PACs for their support...he's lying again...


"...At an Iowa campaign stop, Mr. Sanders thanked the group for being “one of the sponsors” of his campaign.

In a five-minute video posted online by the nurses union in October, Mr. Sanders said he was “honored” to have the union’s support and highlighted his work on its members’ behalf. He promised to make it a “national priority” to focus on issues important to the union, including training more nurses...."​


So not only is Bernie lying when he says that he refused or doesn't have a Super Pac...he's also lying that he's not beholden to them for their support.


He will expect the DNC's support with no strings attached, no perversions of his policy or agenda, or he will not take their money; it is that simple. The only true avenue of influence Hillary and the DNC have with respect to Bernie is policy compromise stemming from representation of her voters who pivot to support him in the general, much as I would expect Hillary to compromise on policy with Bernie in order to earn his endorsement and supporters in the event she wins

It's simply naïve if that's what you really believe.

Did you miss the part of my post where I clearly said that Bernie owed his Senate seat to the DSCC and their corporate donors, including Wall Street? Like I said...he didn't refuse their money...and to show his gratitude, he became one of the DSCC's most prolific corporate fundraisers and voted 95% along Democrat party lines...15% more than most Democrats....


"...As a member of Congress, he regularly attended retreats with Wall Street lobbyists and other donors, and as a candidate for the Senate, he benefited from money that indirectly came from them.

Last year, he directly accepted about $55,000 in Wall Street contributions for his Democratic presidential campaign, FEC filings show
...​

Sanders?s Record, Filings Show Benefits From Super PACs, Links to Wall Street Donors - WSJ


So if he's not going to fundraise for the DNC or compromise on the party platform like you claim...then why should they support his candidacy over Hillary, whose worked hard fundraising not just for her campaign but to help other democrats get elected to congress, as well? Why should the money that she raised for the general election be used for Bernie who hasn't raised a dime for the DNC or helped other democrats to get elected in 2016? And if they don't get elected then who is going to vote for Bernie's policies in congress....republicans? Think, man, think.
 
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A union Super PAC is still a super PAC. So when Bernie says,..“I’m the only candidate up here…who has no super PAC,”...he's lying.

One of the bigger surprises for me in recent weeks has been the revelation of how reflexively Bernie lies about nearly everything. From his false insistence he'd released his tax returns, to this too-cute-by-half BS about campaign contributions, to fabricating quotes from Clinton to attack this week, to even trivial things like pretending he's ridden the the subway in the last decade. It's becoming a constant stream at this point. He's not who I thought he was.
 
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A union Super PAC is still a super PAC. So when Bernie says,..“I’m the only candidate up here…who has no super PAC,”...he's lying.

Yet the Vermont senator has benefited from at least $1.5 million in backing from super PACs and from political groups that don’t have to fully disclose their donors, according to filings with the Federal Election Commission..."

And when Bernie says he isn't beholden to Super PACs for their support...he's lying again...

First, unions are more representative of Bernie's supporters and constituents than corporations as organizations inherently of the working class; a union SuperPAC funded exclusively by member dues is very different from one funded by the fossil fuel and financial industries, so let's dispose of that false equivalency for starters.

Second, Bernie never asked for or solicited their support; never raised money for them, nor engaged in any kind of coordination at any time, direct or indirect. He has never started a SuperPAC; this one has existed since 2009. This one (1) entity is truly and completely independent of him, so no, he doesn't 'have' a SuperPAC in nearly the same way Clinton does.

Third his statements with regards to the nursing union are less a reflection of its influence and than of his existing policy and campaign priorities (i.e. singlepayer; healthcare for all); this is more a case of PAC goals dovetailing with his own than his own being wrenched towards PAC objectives; this is true of virtually all union support. Sanders is and has always been in favour of organized labour; there is no inconsistency here that reflects or even suggests undue influence.

Finally, even if I were to agree that this nursing union PAC happened to be a corrupting influence (which I certainly do not), that influence is several orders of magnitude less than the amount SuperPACs exert on Clinton on a monetary basis.

Bernie can readily refuse donations but he cannot make a SuperPAC that has existed since 2009 desist; not without incurring significant damage to his campaign by alienating the working class that form an indispensable pillar of his campaign (can you imagine the optics of telling a nursing union to **** off?).


Did you miss the part of my post where I clearly said that Bernie owed his Senate seat to the DSCC and their corporate donors, including Wall Street? Like I said...he didn't refuse their money...and to show his gratitude, he became one of the DSCC's most prolific corporate fundraisers and voted 95% along Democrat party lines...15% more than most Democrats....

That was not part of the post I just responded to.

Accepting funding from the DSCC != owing his Senate seat, which he won quite handily, to them; his debt is considerably less than you might imagine. Further it's not the % of overlap that matters (you have yet to actually source these numbers) so much as the actual votes that were deviated on (such as the Iraq War). The bottom line is that Bernie and the Dem party actually do feature considerable overlap, but ultimately, Bernie differs completely on a number of issues of great importance. This doesn't represent an exercise of party influence so much as it does a legitimate concurrence. Again, if Bernie was the easily managed shill you are attempting to misrepresent him as, he wouldn't be having nearly the problems he does now with the DNC and DWS doing their utmost to advance Hillary at his campaign's expense.

Last year, he directly accepted about $55,000 in Wall Street contributions for his Democratic presidential campaign, FEC filings show

Please don't link articles behind paywalls.

Second, that $55,000 is from individuals, not groups, lobbyist bundlers or organizations; again, individual contributions are not a point of concern; institutional donations are.

So if he's not going to fundraise for the DNC or compromise on the party platform like you claim...
...And if they don't get elected then who is going to vote for Bernie's policies in congress....republicans?

I didn't say he wouldn't fundraise for the DNC, I said that fundraising for the DNC doesn't contaminate his campaign which is true. But as for the broader thrust of your question, the DNC in fact hasn't supported his candidacy over Hillary, something that is by now painfully obvious. Why do you think DWS has been so deadset against him? The obvious answer is because there's a fundamental mismatch between his will and policy and the goals of the DNC so far as they relate to their sponsors. Assuming he wins the nomination though, the DNC would be suicidal not to support Bernie, regardless of the impossible difficulty of influencing him.

Further if Dems don't get elected into the House or Senate, the GOP sure as hell isn't going to vote for Hillary's policies either. As president Bernie would doubtlessly do everything within his power to ensure a turnover of both chambers.
 
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One of the bigger surprises for me in recent weeks has been the revelation of how reflexively Bernie lies about nearly everything. From his false insistence he'd released his tax returns, to this too-cute-by-half BS about campaign contributions, to fabricating quotes from Clinton to attack this week, to even trivial things like pretending he's ridden the the subway in the last decade. It's becoming a constant stream at this point. He's not who I thought he was.

Haha, nonsense. You've always been sniping and slagging the guy, beginning to end, just as you are now. Personally I'm more concerned about Clinton's refusal to release her Wall Street transcripts than the tardiness of Bernie's tax returns given the man's utterly trivial net worth vis a vis most other federal level politicians. And which quotes has he fabricated?
 
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