Hillary is More than Just a Woman

[MrT]

As they say "open the door wide".
Now, I am no fan of Trump, and won't vote for him unless someone holds a gun to my head. But he has the right to criticize her on what she brags about. Being a woman is one of those things.

Let's use an analogy. If I were missing my legs, and I went on to become a world class rock climber. And I then gave speeches about the will to triumph despite disabilities, would you consider it an appropriate criticism of my speech or fame for someone to boil my accomplishment down to, "the only thing that he has going for him is his disability?"

 

[Ikari]

She is marginally better, exactly because she is a Party Line toer. Puts some constraints on her statism. Trump has the same (and worse) instincts, and he is a loose canon.

This is why I'm voting third party.

 

[Lovebug]

Let's use an analogy. If I were missing my legs, and I went on to become a world class rock climber. And I then gave speeches about the will to triumph despite disabilities, would you consider it an appropriate criticism of my speech or fame for someone to boil my accomplishment down to, "the only thing that he has going for him is his disability?"

If the person used the disability as a qualification for a job, you bet.

 

[Exquisitor]

People are slamming into the reality of what they're going to have to settle for.

 

[MrT]

If William Clinton were a woman named "Wilhemina" AND HIllary was a man named "Harry" the same principle would apply. I'm not accusing her of sleeping her way to the top because no self-respecting man would allow it AND also because that's not how she got to where she is.

She got to where she is because of her connections to the president of the U.S. She had no actual ties to New York before she become Senator. She had no experience with diplomacy before she became Secretay Of State. She had no business experience before she become a member of the Board of Directors of Wal*Mart.

Her every rise in politics is because of the coattails she road to get there. And in every instance, she's shown to be mediocre to terrible. She also failed the D.C. bar exam.

Now that your detour is finished, would you like to address whether or not Trump's statement that her political support is based solely on her sex should be condemned and/or considered a sexist attack?

 

[faithful_servant]

Hillary is more than a woman. She's also a cold, evil, corporate lizard.

HOLY CRAP!!! All my preconceptions about her have been dashed to pieces... All this time, I thought that she was a Gray, when she's actually an RP!!!

 

[Cyrylek]

This is why I'm voting third party.

I just hope that MA polls will clearly favor one or the other horror in October, and I'll be able to vote for Gary Johnson (probably) with clear conscience...

 

[Chomsky]

I agree that Hillary is something more than a woman. Can't quite put my finger on it, but would be interesting to splash a glass of water on her, and see what happens. Just an experiment.

It may be interesting to see which restrooms she chooses, when campaigning in North Carolina ...

 

[Lovebug]

This is why I'm voting third party.

Have you sat down and asked yourself who you would vote for if someone held a gun to your head? In a way, that is what most people may do. They equate a gun to the head to a third party and rather vote for one or the other.
Sadly the few of us who don't aren't making enough of a difference YET. But at least we can sleep at night, knowing we weren't part of this fiasco that has yet to unfold.

 

[faithful_servant]

Let's use an analogy. If I were missing my legs, and I went on to become a world class rock climber. And I then gave speeches about the will to triumph despite disabilities, would you consider it an appropriate criticism of my speech or fame for someone to boil my accomplishment down to, "the only thing that he has going for him is his disability?"

The problem with your analogy is that Hillary is no "world class rock climber". At best, she's someone who got to where she is by using the ropes left behind by others, by standing on the heads of more accomplished rock climbers and by having a friend with a helo carry her up the toughest climb.

 

[Lovebug]

It may be interesting to see which restrooms she chooses, when campaigning in North Carolina ...

The outhouse of course, right next to the 'stil.

 

[MrT]

If the person used the disability as a qualification for a job, you bet.

I can't even wrap my head around that belief system...

We aren't talking about a criticism of saying, "We need to look beyond that aspect of the individual and examine his other credentials." We are talking about a criticism that renders all of his other qualifications and credentials null and void specifically because of his disability.

 

[MrT]

The problem with your analogy is that Hillary is no "world class rock climber". At best, she's someone who got to where she is by using the ropes left behind by others, by standing on the heads of more accomplished rock climbers and by having a friend with a helo carry her up the toughest climb.

The notion that Hillary Clinton is an affirmative action individual is laughable in its absurdity.

 

[Chomsky]

Last night, Trump intentionally made the decision to show that he will not adjust his style to fit the suggestions by Manafort, some made privately, that Trump would act more Presidential. His speech was very similar to every other speech (bragging about his accomplishments, demanding his opponents relinquish the fight, attacking his critics) and then he took questions from the media.

<snip>

Well, when you blatantly run on the fact that you're a women, then you open yourself up to counter-argument.

If she didn't push the issue, she might not get so much resistance.

That's not to say Trump's going to win a Susan B Anthony award, either ...

 

[MrT]

Well, when you blatantly run on the fact that you're a women, then you open yourself up to counter-argument.

If she didn't push the issue, she might not get so much resistance.

That's not to say Trump's going to win a Susan B Anthony award, either ...

See post #18 and get back to me.

 

[Lovebug]

Well, when you blatantly run on the fact that you're a women, then you open yourself up to counter-argument.

If she didn't push the issue, she might not get so much resistance.

That's not to say Trump's going to win a Susan B Anthony award, either ...

Not unless having plastic Barbie by his side is a qualification for the WH. You know the comparison will come up again, don't you?

 

[Chomsky]

Not unless having plastic Barbie by his side is a qualification for the WH. You know the comparison will come up again, don't you?

True.

I'd say his wives demographics and looks, along with his divorces, will fuel his stereotype too.

Edit: HRC by virtue of her marriage to Bill, will never be able to shake some of the stereotypes portrayed by her detractors, as the President by virtue of his skin color will face the same. That's the way things go in public life.

 

[Chomsky]

See post #18 and get back to me.

Do you really not see the difference between championing your own unique characteristics and someone else denigrating everything you do because of that unique characteristic?

Yes MrT, Trump does often denigrate in excess.

But it doesn't negate the fact: Once a candidate puts a quality forward, it becomes fair-game for dispute.

If she says, "I'm a women, and we need a women in the White House", it's expected for the counter to be: "Using your womanhood to justify your candidacy isn't enough - otherwise you're an empty dress, with nothing more to offer".

And then it then becomes incumbent upon her to produce further justification than her right-to-office by gender.

Now these guys will obviously hurl insults at each-other more vehemently than I wrote above, but that's the way it goes.

 

[Ntharotep]

Shhhhhh. You're not suppose to reveal our secret.

Democrats are Visitors? It makes a certain kind of sense.
I won't be running to the Republicans to form that rebellion though, they come from the same planet.
Now I'm picturing Clinton unhinging her jaw and eating a rat on camera...*shudders*

Props for knowing the term Shaitan - did you read Wheel of Time?

At least several of the books though hardly the entire series. But don't get those stories in my head. Its scary thinking THIS has all happened before

She has to be much more than a woman to stand up to all these men.

There are men running? News to me.

 

[reinoe]

Now that your detour is finished, would you like to address whether or not Trump's statement that her political support is based solely on her sex should be condemned and/or considered a sexist attack?

Nope. It's not sexist. Let me know if you need me to simplify it even more.

 

[cpwill]

Not unless having plastic Barbie by his side is a qualification for the WH. You know the comparison will come up again, don't you?

It's Trump. Any other candidate would know to steer clear of the one thing that burned them the most, but the man has the impulse control of a toddler.

 

[cpwill]

Yes MrT, Trump does often denigrate in excess.

But it doesn't negate the fact: Once a candidate puts a quality forward, it becomes fair-game for dispute.

If she says, "I'm a women, and we need a women in the White House", it's expected for the counter to be: "Using your womanhood to justify your candidacy isn't enough - otherwise you're an empty dress, with nothing more to offer".

And then it then becomes incumbent upon her to produce further justification than her right-to-office by gender.

Now these guys will obviously hurl insults at each-other more vehemently than I wrote above, but that's the way it goes.

In a debate, Clinton made the argument that, because she was a woman, she wasn't Establishment.

I'm sorry, but that's ridiculous, and it says a lot about what she thinks of her supporters that she assumed that they would buy that.

 

[Chomsky]

In a debate, Clinton made the argument that, because she was a woman, she wasn't Establishment.

I'm sorry, but that's ridiculous, and it says a lot about what she thinks of her supporters that she assumed that they would buy that.

:lamo

Oh, that is *so* rich!

She's more establishment than just about anyone in the GOP, for Chrissakes!

Which is how Bernie found enough support to give her very a credible run!

 

[eohrnberger]

Last night, Trump intentionally made the decision to show that he will not adjust his style to fit the suggestions by Manafort, some made privately, that Trump would act more Presidential. His speech was very similar to every other speech (bragging about his accomplishments, demanding his opponents relinquish the fight, attacking his critics) and then he took questions from the media.

And at the very end of the night, Trump decided to really hammer home just how much Misogyny is a core philosophy to his entire being. When asked whether he considered Hillary to be qualified, he said that she was not in his opinion. And he went further by claiming that the only thing Hillary has going for her is the "woman card." In fact, according to Trump, "If Hillary Clinton were a man, I don't think she would get five percent of the vote."

This event led to a social media ruckus when Mary Pat Christie, Chris Christie's wife, stole the show by demonstrating her disdain behind his head while he made the comment.

First off, Trump, that's not how sexism works. Secondly, there can be ZERO rational debate about whether Hillary is qualified to be President. She is a two term senator, four years as Secretary of State, and has spent eight years in the white house as first lady and before her political career, she was partner at a very prestigious law firm and the national chairwoman of the Children's defense fund. She has served on the boards of multiple corporations, like Walmart, and she served a formal role in attempting her husband to roll out education reform in Arkansas. One could very easily make the argument that Hillary Clinton is One of the Most Qualified Presidential Candidates in History.

Now, we can bicker about whether these qualifications are a good thing - although there is historical evidence to support the notion that inexperience can hurt, like Bill Clinton's awful transition or George W. Bush's deference to white house staff that pushed him around. And we can also bicker about whether Hillary was successful or failed during those periods of her life.

But to boil Hillary Clinton's accomplishments down to the fact that she is woman just goes to further prove the level of sexism that is ingrained into Trump. And while it is true to note that Hillary's favorability among women is only 43%, Trump has a crushingly unfavorable rating among women of 66% with a majority (52%) rating him as very unfavorable.

You are right. Hillary is more than a woman. She's a crooked political elitist too. :mrgreen:

Hillary is more than a woman. She's also a cold, evil, corporate lizard.

That too.

Shhhhhh. You're not suppose to reveal our secret.

Hate to break it to you, but it's far from a secret. Pretty much publicly known is more like it, and the negatives that go with it.

Too late! I have now exposed Hillary for what she truly is!

But seriously, Hillary sucks.

Indeed she does. Or did she out source that job to Monica? :mrgreen:

I agree that Hillary is something more than a woman. Can't quite put my finger on it, but would be interesting to splash a glass of water on her, and see what happens. Just an experiment.

Hmm. I think you might be right about that.

 

[MrT]

In a debate, Clinton made the argument that, because she was a woman, she wasn't Establishment.

I'm sorry, but that's ridiculous, and it says a lot about what she thinks of her supporters that she assumed that they would buy that.

When you consider the amount of females found in upper level management and governmental positions, relative to the total population, and if we define "establishment" ad the status quo, then she's not wrong.

And I find it interesting for some to claim that we shouldn't reward someone based on their gender or race from birth, and simultaneously ignore the "coincidence" that the previous 45 presidents were all white males.