• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Hezbollah places 15,000 rockets on border with Israel: Oren

24107

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
2,809
Reaction score
824
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Israel's ambassador to Washington, Michael Oren, warned Friday that Hezbollah has placed around 15,000 rockets along Lebanon's border with Israel, including some that could hit southern Eilat.

"The Syrian-Iranian backed Hezbollah poses a very serious threat to Israel," Oren said in a conference call focused mainly on the new direct Palestinian-Israeli peace negotiations.

"Hezbollah today now has four times as many rockets as it had during the 2006 Lebanon war. These rockets are longer-range. Every city in Israel is within range right now, including Eilat," he said.

The Red Sea resort of Eilat is the most southern point in Israel.

AFP: Hezbollah places 15,000 rockets on border with Israel: Oren
diplomacy should be inititiatied
 

expandmymind

Banned
Joined
Sep 14, 2010
Messages
229
Reaction score
120
Location
Scotland
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Yeah I think I remember seeing the pictures of 'civilian houses, housing rockets'. So now we know they've paved the way for the next time they destroy infrastructure and civilian areas; hosptals and schools. As if it even makes a difference in international law..

It has been exposed as a lie that Hezbollah fired from civilians areas in 2006, but (I'm guessing here also) it has been a widely accepted lie.
 

CaptainCourtesy

I'm a Jedi Master, Yo
DP Veteran
Joined
May 19, 2006
Messages
156,723
Reaction score
53,491
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Moderator's Warning:
This is a ME issue and belongs in the ME Forum.
 

PeteEU

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
35,124
Reaction score
12,041
Location
Denmark
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
And Israel "places" just as many plus fighter aircraft, attack helicopters and nukes near the border...

in other words, so what.
 

Apocalypse

DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!
DP Veteran
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
19,755
Reaction score
6,217
Location
Israel
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
And Israel "places" just as many plus fighter aircraft, attack helicopters and nukes near the border...

in other words, so what.
What the hell are you talking about?
Placing nukes near the border?
Are you even trying to make any sense?
 

ido_

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 13, 2010
Messages
3,406
Reaction score
1,561
Location
Israel
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
And Israel "places" just as many plus fighter aircraft, attack helicopters and nukes near the border...

in other words, so what.
According to the internet Israel's missile silos are no where near the border with Lebanon, do you have a source for that claim?
Plus, Israel placing fighters and armed forces along the border doesn't contradict 1701, Hezbollah doing so does, and I believe the job of the UN peace keeping force in south Lebanon is to prevent them from doing so, they sure need to be applauded for a job well done.
 
Last edited:

digsbe

Truth will set you free
Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
May 13, 2009
Messages
20,224
Reaction score
14,223
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
I fear that military action should be taken against Hezbollah. This time to cripple them and completely eradicate the group. Lebanon should also do their best to destroy the group internally.
 

Demon of Light

Bohemian Revolutionary
DP Veteran
Joined
May 7, 2010
Messages
5,095
Reaction score
1,544
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
According to the internet Israel's missile silos are no where near the border with Lebanon, do you have a source for that claim?
Ballistic missiles are not the only delivery systems for nuclear weapons. Bombs, cruise missiles, and artillery shells are all capable of carrying nuclear warheads. Obviously we can't know where all these weapons would be positioned, but I doubt any are particularly close to the border. Perhaps some are within 20 or so miles of the border. The nearest airbases with F-15s are likely candidates. Israel's submarines can carry nuclear-tipped cruise missiles and since Lebanon and Hezbollah have no decent ASW capabilities Israel could put them as close to Lebanon as possible while submerged, even in their territorial waters.

Plus, Israel placing fighters and armed forces along the border doesn't contradict 1701, Hezbollah doing so does, and I believe the job of the UN peace keeping force in south Lebanon is to prevent them from doing so, they sure need to be applauded for a job well done.
Personally, I do not think any state or entity should be compelled to abandon the option of self-defense while the other party of the conflict can build up as much military resources as they like targeting the other party.
 

Vader

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 24, 2005
Messages
8,260
Reaction score
1,064
Location
Whitewater, CO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Yeah I think I remember seeing the pictures of 'civilian houses, housing rockets'. So now we know they've paved the way for the next time they destroy infrastructure and civilian areas; hosptals and schools. As if it even makes a difference in international law..

It has been exposed as a lie that Hezbollah fired from civilians areas in 2006, but (I'm guessing here also) it has been a widely accepted lie.
Ummm... no. This is just another baseless liberal propganda lie.
 

expandmymind

Banned
Joined
Sep 14, 2010
Messages
229
Reaction score
120
Location
Scotland
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Ummm... no. This is just another baseless liberal propganda lie.
Search through my posts and you'll see I've provided evidence to support my claims.

And I am not a liberal.

The time has come for Israel to locate and IRRIDICATE those rockets and those housing them.
Would you allow the Palestinians to seek out and "IRRIDICATE" the Israeli soldiers responsible for (we'll keep it a conservative estimate) 20 times more deaths? Is this morally alright with you? It doesn't sit well with me, myself.

Oh and it has been well documented that Hezbollah housed their rockets in fields and other empty land. Again, check through my posts. It shouldn't take you long.
 
Last edited:

expandmymind

Banned
Joined
Sep 14, 2010
Messages
229
Reaction score
120
Location
Scotland
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Search through my posts and you'll see I've provided evidence to support my claims.

I just realised that I haven't supported that claim with evidence yet. What I have done is support the claim that Israel targeted civilians in Lebanon, 2006 and that Hamas did not shield themselves amongst civilians or fire rockets from houses with civilians.

But here is the evidence you require for this claim:
HRW
“We found strong evidence that Hezbollah stored most of its rockets in bunkers and
weapon storage facilities located in uninhabited fields and valleys, that in the vast majority of cases Hezbollah fighters left populated civilian areas as soon as the fighting started, and that Hezbollah fired the vast majority of its rockets from preprepared
positions outside villages.” And again, “in all but a few of the cases of civilian deaths we investigated, Hezbollah fighters had not mixed with the civilian population or taken other
actions to contribute to the targeting of a particular home or vehicle by Israeli forces.” Indeed, “Israel’s own firing patterns in Lebanon support the conclusion that Hezbollah fired large numbers of its rockets from tobacco fields, banana, olive and citrus groves, and more remote, unpopulated valleys.”

Why They Died | Human Rights Watch

And there is also this,

The U.S. Army War College did a study basing themselves off soldiers' testimony where they found,
“the key battlefields in the land campaign south of the Litani River were mostly devoid of civilians, and IDF participants consistently report little or no meaningful intermingling of Hezbollah fighters and noncombatants. Nor is there any systematic reporting of Hezbollah using civilians in the combat zone as shields.” On a related note, the authors report that “the great majority of Hezbollah’s fighters wore uniforms. In fact, their equipment and clothing were remarkably similar to many state militaries’—desert or green fatigues, helmets, web vests, body armor, dog tags, and rank insignia.”
Stephen Biddle and Jeff rey A. Friedman, The 2006 Lebanon Campaign
and the Future of Warfare: Implications for army and defense policy

Just in case you were going to try to pull off the same old empty rhetoric and claim something like "they did use human shields though!".
 
Last edited:

Vader

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 24, 2005
Messages
8,260
Reaction score
1,064
Location
Whitewater, CO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
I just realised that I haven't supported that claim with evidence yet. What I have done is support the claim that Israel targeted civilians in Lebanon, 2006 and that Hamas did not shield themselves amongst civilians or fire rockets from houses with civilians.

But here is the evidence you require for this claim:
HRW
“We found strong evidence that Hezbollah stored most of its rockets in bunkers and
weapon storage facilities located in uninhabited fields and valleys, that in the vast majority of cases Hezbollah fighters left populated civilian areas as soon as the fighting started, and that Hezbollah fired the vast majority of its rockets from preprepared
positions outside villages.” And again, “in all but a few of the cases of civilian deaths we investigated, Hezbollah fighters had not mixed with the civilian population or taken other
actions to contribute to the targeting of a particular home or vehicle by Israeli forces.” Indeed, “Israel’s own firing patterns in Lebanon support the conclusion that Hezbollah fired large numbers of its rockets from tobacco fields, banana, olive and citrus groves, and more remote, unpopulated valleys.”

Why They Died | Human Rights Watch

And there is also this,

The U.S. Army War College did a study basing themselves off soldiers' testimony where they found,
“the key battlefields in the land campaign south of the Litani River were mostly devoid of civilians, and IDF participants consistently report little or no meaningful intermingling of Hezbollah fighters and noncombatants. Nor is there any systematic reporting of Hezbollah using civilians in the combat zone as shields.” On a related note, the authors report that “the great majority of Hezbollah’s fighters wore uniforms. In fact, their equipment and clothing were remarkably similar to many state militaries’—desert or green fatigues, helmets, web vests, body armor, dog tags, and rank insignia.”
Stephen Biddle and Jeff rey A. Friedman, The 2006 Lebanon Campaign
and the Future of Warfare: Implications for army and defense policy

Just in case you were going to try to pull off the same old empty rhetoric and claim something like "they did use human shields though!".
The truth is that they did use human shields and the DO brainwash children into suicide monkeys. There is no denying that. Isreal has made some mistakes; however, Israel does train children to be terrorists. Hamas and many arab nations do.

I'm curious... why are you so anti-israeli?
 

expandmymind

Banned
Joined
Sep 14, 2010
Messages
229
Reaction score
120
Location
Scotland
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
The truth is that they did use human shields and the DO brainwash children into suicide monkeys. There is no denying that. Isreal has made some mistakes; however, Israel does train children to be terrorists. Hamas and many arab nations do.
No matter how many times you or the IDF repeat these lies, they don't become any more true. Where is all the evidence?

http://www.debatepolitics.com/middl...sts-fire-phosphorus-shells-into-israel-8.html

Read my posts (and others) for evidence of Israel's crimes (human shields, targeting civilians, leveling civilians structures, etc., the list goes on).

'Train children to be terrorists'. This is honestly like listening to the IDF spokesman, or worse, Alan Dershowitz..

I'm curious... why are you so anti-israeli?
I'm anti-colonial. I don't consider myself anti-Israel - and if we were to be completely honest about the matter, you and others who support Israel's right to colonise another's country are far worse enemies of a peaceful Israel then me or anyone else who continually press for peace along the internationally recognised borders. Israel will never be at peace as long as she is an occupying force.

If I'm being honest, I didn't really know all that much about Israel before the Gaza war (I thought the word 'Zionist' to be like a racist slur to show how uninformed I was). Up until I watched that massacre unfold in front of my eyes I was a blind supporter of Israel, naturally - they were fighting 'terrorists', or so the news told me.. After the Gaza war I started reading; I read more and more and discovered a lot about Israel's treatment of the Palestinians; I learned about their real history after I had been fooled into believing that epic yarn 'there were no Indians' Douglas Carpenter's Journal - "There Were No Indians" by Anthony Lewis Israel actually tried the old tried and tested method of colonial enterprises: pretend no one was there when they first arrived.

The more I read, the more my eyes are opened. I really don't like being sold lies.

I'm not going to bother giving any more details because I know exactly what your intended meaning was by your use of the word 'curious'. If you want to know anything else I could put you onto some literature that would open your doors of perception to this subject, but I doubt you're interested in real history or real facts unless it goes with your already preconceived notions. Or if you want to accuse me of something because that's all you have left to bring to the 'debate' then go ahead.
 
Last edited:

PeteEU

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
35,124
Reaction score
12,041
Location
Denmark
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
According to the internet Israel's missile silos are no where near the border with Lebanon, do you have a source for that claim?
Plus, Israel placing fighters and armed forces along the border doesn't contradict 1701, Hezbollah doing so does, and I believe the job of the UN peace keeping force in south Lebanon is to prevent them from doing so, they sure need to be applauded for a job well done.
First off, Israel does "not have nukes". Secondly Israel is a freaking small country, so pretty much anywhere "is near the border". Thirdly, Israel has violated quite a few UN security council resolutions and no one cares.. so why should we care if Hezbollah does it? And finally, this is an accusation by Israel, which dont have the best credibility in this conflict and is not exactly unbiased in wanting to hurt Hezbollah in the media and politically. They provide no proof what so ever.

So again... So freaking what!? Should we jump on every piece of mindless biased propaganda from either side?
 

ido_

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 13, 2010
Messages
3,406
Reaction score
1,561
Location
Israel
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Ballistic missiles are not the only delivery systems for nuclear weapons. Bombs, cruise missiles, and artillery shells are all capable of carrying nuclear warheads. Obviously we can't know where all these weapons would be positioned, but I doubt any are particularly close to the border. Perhaps some are within 20 or so miles of the border. The nearest airbases with F-15s are likely candidates. Israel's submarines can carry nuclear-tipped cruise missiles and since Lebanon and Hezbollah have no decent ASW capabilities Israel could put them as close to Lebanon as possible while submerged, even in their territorial waters.
True but we are talking about missiles (or rockets to be more precised). And unless you have any source to back the claim that Israel did deploy missiles or nukes along the border with Lebanon, this claim is false. BTW the airbase you were talking about doesn't have F15 squadrons.

[QOUTE]Personally, I do not think any state or entity should be compelled to abandon the option of self-defense while the other party of the conflict can build up as much military resources as they like targeting the other party.[/QUOTE]

Hezbollah is not a state... yet, and the UN 1701 resolution is still binding
 

ido_

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 13, 2010
Messages
3,406
Reaction score
1,561
Location
Israel
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
First off, Israel does "not have nukes".
We were talking about missiles. are you suggesting the Jeriho missile doesn't exist?

Secondly Israel is a freaking small country, so pretty much anywhere "is near the border".
it takes about one and a half hours to fly from Eilat to the Lebanise border and about 6 hours by car. From Tel Aviv its about 140Km, do you consider 140Km as "close" ?

Thirdly, Israel has violated quite a few UN security council resolutions and no one cares.. so why should we care if Hezbollah does it? And finally, this is an accusation by Israel, which dont have the best credibility in this conflict and is not exactly unbiased in wanting to hurt Hezbollah in the media and politically. They provide no proof what so ever.

So again... So freaking what!? Should we jump on every piece of mindless biased propaganda from either side?
Hezbollah are just waiting for a good chance attack. Since Israel's withdrawal from Lebanon at 2000 all conflicts were initiated by Hezbollah. Mybe you should care because you don't want to see another war developing in the region.
 

Vader

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 24, 2005
Messages
8,260
Reaction score
1,064
Location
Whitewater, CO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
True but we are talking about missiles (or rockets to be more precised). And unless you have any source to back the claim that Israel did deploy missiles or nukes along the border with Lebanon, this claim is false. BTW the airbase you were talking about doesn't have F15 squadrons.

[QOUTE]Personally, I do not think any state or entity should be compelled to abandon the option of self-defense while the other party of the conflict can build up as much military resources as they like targeting the other party.
Hezbollah is not a state... yet, and the UN 1701 resolution is still binding[/QUOTE]

Hezbollah will NEVER be a state. They will be exterminated long before that happens... and that includest their coward leader who is hiding out in Iran.
 

Vader

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 24, 2005
Messages
8,260
Reaction score
1,064
Location
Whitewater, CO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Hezbollah will NEVER be a state. They will be exterminated long before that happens... and that includest their coward leader who is hiding out in Iran.[/QUOTE]
 

Demon of Light

Bohemian Revolutionary
DP Veteran
Joined
May 7, 2010
Messages
5,095
Reaction score
1,544
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
True but we are talking about missiles (or rockets to be more precised). And unless you have any source to back the claim that Israel did deploy missiles or nukes along the border with Lebanon, this claim is false. BTW the airbase you were talking about doesn't have F15 squadrons.
Pete was not limiting it to missiles from what I could tell and I never mentioned a specific airbase, though looking into it the nearest airbase with F-15s seem to be around Tel Aviv.

Hezbollah is not a state... yet, and the UN 1701 resolution is still binding
Like I said I don't think any state or entity should be compelled to give up its means of self-defense when the other party has no such restrictions.
 

Apocalypse

DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!
DP Veteran
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
19,755
Reaction score
6,217
Location
Israel
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Like I said I don't think any state or entity should be compelled to give up its means of self-defense when the other party has no such restrictions.
Considering the illegal use that this "entity" does with its weapons (terrorism, gang wars), and consider the illegalty of the methods it uses to gain its weapons (smuggling) and considering the war the entity has created in the summer of 2006, the UN resolution is more than understandable, and frankly terrorists should not be allowed to get armed.
But of course, your opinion is naturally different.
 

Demon of Light

Bohemian Revolutionary
DP Veteran
Joined
May 7, 2010
Messages
5,095
Reaction score
1,544
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Considering the illegal use that this "entity" does with its weapons (terrorism, gang wars), and consider the illegalty of the methods it uses to gain its weapons (smuggling) and considering the war the entity has created in the summer of 2006, the UN resolution is more than understandable, and frankly terrorists should not be allowed to get armed.
Hezbollah is not a terrorist organization and the smuggling of weapons is only done because of legal attempts to eliminate their capacity for self-defense. Also, if starting wars were sufficient justification for disarming a party then Israel should have been demilitarized long ago.
 

liblady

pirate lover
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 7, 2009
Messages
16,165
Reaction score
5,060
Location
St Thomas, VI
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
Hezbollah is not a terrorist organization and the smuggling of weapons is only done because of legal attempts to eliminate their capacity for self-defense. Also, if starting wars were sufficient justification for disarming a party then Israel should have been demilitarized long ago.
i amazed that you weren't struck by lightning while composing that post. of course hezbollah is a terrorist organization.

Activities
Hizballah is known to have been involved in numerous anti-U.S. and anti-Israeli terrorist attacks, including the suicide truck bombings of the U.S. Embassy and U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut in 1983 and the U.S. Embassy annex in Beirut in 1984. Four members of Hizballah, ‘Imad Mughniyah, Hasan Izz-al-Din, Mohammed Hamadei, and Ali Atwa, are on the FBI's list of most wanted terrorists for the 1985 hijacking of TWA flight 847, during which a U.S. Navy diver was murdered. Elements of the group were responsible for the kidnapping, detention, and murder of Americans and other Westerners in Lebanon in the 1980s. Hizballah also has been implicated in the attacks on the Israeli Embassy in Argentina in 1992 and a Jewish cultural center in Buenos Aires in 1994. The U.S. Government has indicted a member of Lebanese Hizballah for his participation in the June 1996 truck bomb attack of the U.S. Air Force dormitory at Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia. In 2000, Hizballah operatives captured three Israeli soldiers in the Sheba'a Farms area and kidnapped an Israeli non-combatant.



Read more at: Hizballah :: The Investigative Project on Terrorism
 

Apocalypse

DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!
DP Veteran
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
19,755
Reaction score
6,217
Location
Israel
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Hezbollah is not a terrorist organization and the smuggling of weapons is only done because of legal attempts to eliminate their capacity for self-defense. Also, if starting wars were sufficient justification for disarming a party then Israel should have been demilitarized long ago.
Yet even if we are to operate in your world where an organization that is murdering Jewish civilians does not engage in terrorism, by definition, you would still have to recognize that the smuggling of arms is illegal, despite your justification of it.
 
Top Bottom