Hezbollah Chief Urges Lebanese Government To Build Nuclear Reactor

[Orion]

Yes but international moves are not being taken based on the person behind the user "Orion" in one of the many politic debating forums on the internet, such moves are based on legalty, and as long as Israel is not signed on the NPT it has no reason or need to expose its nuclear progress to the world.

The presence of undeclared nukes changes the security scenario of the entire region, regardless if they are legal or not. Your statement is exactly why I find foreign policy in the middle east hypocritical. We know Israel has the capability of launching nuclear strikes but this is never something brought to the discussion table, or even discussed in the media, as a reason why other M-E nations are now seeking their own nuclear deterrence. We just keep pitching the idea that Iran is crazy and that's why they want nukes. No... they want nukes for their own security. That is what the security dilemma means. It's POLISCI 101.

And the moon is made of cheese. That is outright false.

Whatever.

Right now the sane part of the Western world needs to focus on stopping or delaying the Iranian progress towards the bomb.

There's no evidence that Iran is making nuclear weapons. According to your own criteria, we must have legal reasons to go after Iran. That means proof is required. Inspections have not turned up evidence that weapons are being manufactured.

Sorry, but I won't support another invasion based on a propaganda campaign. I want to see clear evidence from UN inspectors, not from the United States or Israel. Thanks.

 

[reefedjib]

I want to see clear evidence from UN inspectors, not from the United States or Israel. Thanks.

Yeah, them we can trust. :roll:

 

[Apocalypse]

The presence of undeclared nukes changes the security scenario of the entire region, regardless if they are legal or not.

But if they are legal or not decides if action can be taken against it, such as inspection by UN officials.
Besides that, Israel is rumored to have nukes since the 50's.

We know Israel has the capability of launching nuclear strikes but this is never something brought to the discussion table, or even discussed in the media, as a reason why other M-E nations are now seeking their own nuclear deterrence.

It is not a possible reason. They seek nuclear weapons because they want nuclear weapons, not because Israel has possibly gained them more than 50 years ago.

We just keep pitching the idea that Iran is crazy and that's why they want nukes. No... they want nukes for their own security. That is what the security dilemma means. It's POLISCI 101.

Iran is crazy, but they want nukes in order to be in a position to threaten and practically be able to damage the nations it decides to show hostility towards.
You claim they want nukes for security, but I see no valid reason to believe that the world's biggest terror sponsor that is managed by a bunch of fundamentalist radicals may indeed simply be seeking nuclear power merely because they feel threatened, that's simply a weak argument for the arming of such hostile theocracy with nukes.

Whatever.

Then don't go against reality in an attempt to demonize another nation.

There's no evidence that Iran is making nuclear weapons. According to your own criteria, we must have legal reasons to go after Iran. That means proof is required. Inspections have not turned up evidence that weapons are being manufactured.

Inspections have gathered enough evidence to base a strong suspicion by the IAEA and the world leaders to strongly believe that Iran is looking after nuclear weapons.
Besides that it has indeed violated more than one of the conditions of the NPT agreement with its amount of enriched centrifuges and having some non-inspected nuclear facilities.

Sorry, but I won't support another invasion based on a propaganda campaign.

I'm not calling for your support of an invasion, I don't call for your support of anything, I call for the support of the rational, sane people who can see through the propaganda and understand that Iran is a ticking clock and that action needs to be taken to ensure that the holocaust-denying homosexuals-hanging protesters-sniping terror-sponsoring tyrannical fundamentalist Iranian regime does not get its hands on mankind's most destructive power.
They are not a responsible entity, I have no reason to support them gaining nuclear weapons, and doing so would be a violation of the international agreements they are signed on - they are to be stopped.

 

[Commoncents]

Fixed that for you.

Actually you took a factual commentary and broke it.

Why? Nuclear power is a wonderful idea.

Of course it is....nuclear weapons arent tho. The world has offered to help Iran w/ the peaceful program,all they have to abide the safeguards they agreed to,ensuring "peaceful" intent is their only intent. IAEA says theyre not doing this so perhaps you might ask yourself....why dont they?

 

[Tashah]

There's no evidence that Iran is making nuclear weapons. According to your own criteria, we must have legal reasons to go after Iran. That means proof is required. Inspections have not turned up evidence that weapons are being manufactured.

What you fail to mention is that corroborating NPT evidence is not possible without total transparency. This is why the UN has voted to levy increasingly onerous sanctions against Iran... because Iran has not been totally transparent with the IAEA.

To put it in a more simplistic manner, it is impossible for authorities to gather evidence if portions of the crime scene are off limits.

 

[Commoncents]

The presence of undeclared nukes changes the security scenario of the entire region, regardless if they are legal or not. Your statement is exactly why I find foreign policy in the middle east hypocritical. We know Israel has the capability of launching nuclear strikes but this is never something brought to the discussion table, or even discussed in the media, as a reason why other M-E nations are now seeking their own nuclear deterrence. We just keep pitching the idea that Iran is crazy and that's why they want nukes. No... they want nukes for their own security. That is what the security dilemma means. It's POLISCI 101.

Who exactly is Iran worried about that they want nukes? The US? The US offered to help them with their peaceful program provided they adhere to their commitments and produce the transparency they promised in 2003 when they were allowed back into tho loving arms of the UN/IAEA. Of course it did not take them long to give the finger to those who gave them the benefit of the doubt. Their only real threat was Saddam and we got rid of him. Who is Iran so afraid of. US/Iranian relations were much warmer before the mullahs decided they needed nukes to protect themselves. Its a self fulfilling prophecy....folks like you claim they need them to protect themsleves but their worries are only realized the closer they come to nukes. Israel on the other hand has been threatened with annihilation since their foundation and the threats have never stopped.Despite being attacked on a consistent and brutal basis theyve never launched a nuke or even threatened to. One must admit Irans track record of exporting terror to nonstate actors is quite vast.

There's no evidence that Iran is making nuclear weapons. According to your own criteria, we must have legal reasons to go after Iran. That means proof is required. Inspections have not turned up evidence that weapons are being manufactured.

Sorry, but I won't support another invasion based on a propaganda campaign. I want to see clear evidence from UN inspectors, not from the United States or Israel. Thanks.

Iran defies the IAEA. The UN would like to verify the very same info as you are questioning. Iran will not allow it tho. Sound familiar. I think Iran could clear it all up quite easily if their program was innocent as you seem to think it is. Why wont they clear it up then. Read the IAEAs quarterly reports on Iran and notice theyve been asking for the same clarifications and access for years and years and Iran still refuses to be up front with them. Its is Iran itself thats putting themselves in a corner,not the rest of the world.

 

[kaya'08]

If Israel was the only nation in the ME with nukes everything would be better.

I'm sorry, i have no idea what thought process has allowed you to conclude that ANY nation with a nuclear bomb would make ANYTHING better.
Israel has allies, it does not need nuclear bombs. The region knows Israel has not the galls to use them, because even the US would back down from supporting Israel in the event they DID use them. Which is why tensions where high then, are high now and always will be. And thanks to this attitude we know how Iran pursuing nuclear weapons which will eventually lead to a regional domino effect. And if you think Israel will last a second in those conditions you can think again.

They are under constant threats from those around them, and having nuclear weapons is a very powerful deterrent of militant force? Why should we rid Israel of their nukes? On what grounds do we have? Israel, Pakistan, and India did not sign the NPT, therefore there is no legal recourse against those nations for having nukes in regards to the NPT. However, other nations in the ME did sign it. Israel needs nuclear weapons as a defensive deterrent of conflict.

Pakistan and India are not the topic of discussion here. The nuclear weapons where obtained 50 years ago. Tell me what conflict they have avoided? Tell me how it has deterred Syria from engaging with Israel and other regional actors? None. Instead, it has sparked an arms race. You have no historical evidence to suggest a nuclear armed Israel is the solution to peace. In fact, the notion is quiet absurd for history has told you the exact opposite to what you have stated. This will not end well.

 

[Tashah]

Pakistan and India are not the topic of discussion here.

You're right. And neither is Israel nor Iran. I posted the OP. I should know.

Let's return the crown of discussion to Lebanon and the Hezbollah suggested nuclear program there.

 

[kaya'08]

You have a heck of a lot nerve talking about hypocritical America. Coming from a country like yours, I am not even sure how you would define that term. Has Israel talked about wiping Iran or even Turkey off the face of the map. Last time I looked Iran or turkey are not surrounded by many countries looking to destroy them. So it might be beyond your comprehension why Israel has maintained their ambiguous stance on their nuclear position.

Actually i am convinced Erdogan looks up to Obama as a sort of Hypocritical messiah. He preaches for a nuclear free ME and Israel slips under the carpet. This isn't double standards? Do you really think this approach is going to have a chance in hell of convincing anybody? No. Can you guarantee me Israel will not use these weapons in the future to reap utter hell? No. Would you like to see peace in the ME? Clearly humanitarianism is the last thing you care about, and thus, peace in the Middle East. So why are you wasting my time with "ME peace talks", embargo's and useless "peace initiatives" that is being conducted by the most obviously biased nation there is on the conflict. If you think the US will spend billions on Israel forever, and that Israel will last in a region that does not want it, again, you are wrong. A nuclear free ME is the best thing we can do to ensure NATO security and Israel's own existence. Iran is a shia nation, and therefore a common enemy of all nations in the region.

On your note on Turkey; you couldn't be so wrong. Turkey was surrounded by nations that sought its destruction historically far longer than Israel has. In fact this paranoia can be seen in deep state institutions, but seeing as you are clueless towards Turkish politics, i will not continue.

 

[Captain America]

Certainly, in a perfect world, no nation the ME should ever be allowed nukes, and that includes Israel. The Arab nations taking exception to this double standard, preferring to "level the playing field," is perfectly understandable and justified as well. America supporting this double standard puts my country at risk, half way across the planet. That being said, the Israeli refusal to acknowlege their nuclear capabilities and eliminate them is also completely understandable and justified. I am certain Israel's enemies would lay her to waste without proper defenses and deterrents. I totally understand Israel's position. If I had neighbors like Israel, I would arm myself to the teeth too. Quite the predicament, hey?

 

[Captain America]

If I had neighbors like Israel, I would arm myself to the teeth too.

I should have worded that better. I should have included the word, "does."

"If I had neighbors like Israel does, I would arm myself to the teeth too."

 

[Agent Ferris]

Who was the first country in the region to get nuclear weapons, again?

Israeli nuclear weapons didn't set off an arms race because they kept it a secret maintaining a policy of ambiguity, they never conducted a live test, I seriously doubt that will be the case with Iran.

 

[Laila]

Israeli nuclear weapons didn't set off an arms race because they kept it a secret maintaining a policy of ambiguity, they never conducted a live test, I seriously doubt that will be the case with Iran.

Lul wut?

No country in ME should be allowed. Infact Israel should be stripped of theirs or they should shush and stop being such hypocrites if another ME country wants it.

Someone ought to level the playing field.
:shrug:

And the second Iran gets it. We all know Saudi Arabia will be down that phone to US for some and US will deliver faster than a fat kid who sees chocolate.

 

[Agent Ferris]

Lul wut?

They maintain a policy of deliberate ambiguity, the only reason why anyone knows about it for sure is because one of their scientists opened his mouth. That's why it didn't set off an arms race. I would rather see a nuclear free ME but am far more comfortable with Israel having one than Iran.

No country in ME should be allowed. Infact Israel should be stripped of theirs or they should shush and stop being such hypocrites if another ME country wants it.

Someone ought to level the playing field.
:shrug:

And the second Iran gets it. We all know Saudi Arabia will be down that phone to US for some and US will deliver faster than a fat kid who sees chocolate.

If we haven't already, it's been asserted that the Saudi's may already be a nuclear power.

 

[Laila]

They maintain a policy of deliberate ambiguity, the only reason why anyone knows about it for sure is because one of their scientists opened his mouth. That's why it didn't set off an arms race. I would rather see a nuclear free ME but am far more comfortable with Israel having one than Iran.

If we haven't already, it's been asserted that the Saudi's may already be a nuclear power.

A secret is successful when no one knows.

I am not happy with either Israel or Iran getting one.
But I am not going to be a hypocrite and say I am fine with Israel getting one but ban it for any other nation in that region.

Well if true, then I do not blame Iran for wanting one. Israel on one side, Saudi Arabia on the other? Don't blame Ahmadinejad at all.

 

[Agent Ferris]

A secret is successful when no one knows.

I am not happy with either Israel or Iran getting one.
But I am not going to be a hypocrite and say I am fine with Israel getting one but ban it for any other nation in that region.

Well if true, then I do not blame Iran for wanting one. Israel on one side, Saudi Arabia on the other? Don't blame Ahmadinejad at all.

Saudi Arabia denies they have one, Israel maintains deliberate ambiguity, I seriously doubt that would be the case with Iran. The Iranians will want people to know that they're a nuclear power. A live test will set off a ME arms race. Furthermore; there is a lot less reason to fear a nuclear Israel than a nuclear Iran.

 

[Orion]

Saudi Arabia denies they have one, Israel maintains deliberate ambiguity, I seriously doubt that would be the case with Iran. The Iranians will want people to know that they're a nuclear power. A live test will set off a ME arms race. Furthermore; there is a lot less reason to fear a nuclear Israel than a nuclear Iran.

The arms race was already happening before Iran, in case you didn't notice.

 

[Laila]

Saudi Arabia denies they have one, Israel maintains deliberate ambiguity, I seriously doubt that would be the case with Iran. The Iranians will want people to know that they're a nuclear power. A live test will set off a ME arms race. Furthermore; there is a lot less reason to fear a nuclear Israel than a nuclear Iran.

If there is any region in this world that should be banned for the next 100 years from getting nukes. It is the Middle East.
But if Israel gets it and Saudi's. I'm not going to complain about Iran getting it.

Arms race was already happening if what you say about Saudi's is true, just happening backstage.

 

[joergan]

How many wars has Iran been in in the past 30 years? How many has Israel been in? How many times has Iran used chemical weapons against civilians? How many times has Israel? How often has Israel's borders changed over the past couple of decades? How often have Iran's?

As soon as the lie "who has iran attacked in 4,000 years" gets loaded into the thread, you can bet alot of money that the poster of that statement is paid to do so. I'm on over 20 dif poli forums, and whenever a poster makes that claim, they are not long for the forum, being exposed as a paid shill...

 

[joergan]

Okay so you admit then that Israel is a much more unstable and dangerous place for nuclear weapons to be because of all of the conflict it is involved in. Thank you.

Israel has had nuclear weapons for 50 years; probably more than twice your age.

And btw sweetie, iran used chemical weapons on iraqi during the 80-88 war, so if you think you'll get a pass here with the paid BS, forget it.

 

[joergan]

No they don't. I don't know how you could even argue that the Iranian government is unstable. They just survived the massive protests almost completely unscathed.

Now I'm convinced your a paid lackey. Surviving protests through murder? Why don't you defend pol pot as well? Tell us what you are paid to be here, maybe we'll take you more seriously...

 

[joergan]

Ya violent crack down against peaceful nation wide protests is not a sign of a stable government. :roll:

That poster is the perfect example of why this forum is so weak...

 

[joergan]

Simply untrue. Americans like to claim any government that isn't pro-West is "unstable" and "dangerous", but the fact of the matter is that Iran is a healthy, intelligent, rational and powerful state, that simply doesn't take any of America's bull like Nicaragua (etc.) does. And this pisses the Americans off, to no end -- the American puppet government was overthrown, and since then, Iran has flourished, which just spits in America's face.

So, Americans, you can claim that Iran is an anti-American government -- it is. You can claim that Iran is a Muslim nation -- it is. But you can not claim that Iran is a backwards, unstable, volatile terror regime, because nothing could be further from the truth.

I had no idea that stable, peaceful regimes engaged in terrorism, suicide bombings, raping and murderering of its own citizens by the thousands - thanks for sharing.

Can a leftist with some intelligence PLEASE enter this thread?

 

[joergan]

EDIT: In fact, and I hope I can get this in so you see it before you respond, the fact that Iran went with a light water nuclear reactor and has made a deal to ship all spent fuel back to Russia shows that they in fact are not insane suicide-bombers and completely disproves the ridiculous picture that people like Agent Ferris attempt to paint.

Are you paid to lie? Could it be more obvious? Arak is a HEAVY WATER reactor.

 

[joergan]

No, no, NO. Iran is more of a threat to global and regional American interests than Israel, not "global and regional stability". Iran is a stable government, and it has done nothing extraordinary to destabilise the region beyond being a powerful neighbour. You're seeing the situation from an extremely pro-American viewpoint, something that'll land you in deep trouble in international politics.

Iran is fomenting wars in FOUR other nations, how does a person with a minimal IQ level or higher countenance that as "doing nothing extraordinary"?