Hey right wing tightwads. How much do we spend on prisons?

[James D Hill]

There are groups throughout the US that openly defy laws and regulations as a livelihood

CA. pot growers, NC. bootleggers, people who salvage metals off military installations, etc.

Not like they're just sitting around waiting for change.

Drug use like drinking,smoking and gambling are addictions and yes motivates criminal behavior. That said those same people would just find another addiction and be in jail anyway if drugs where legal or not. Yes there are many drug addicts who are criminals and idiots but all too often all drug users get that put on them when it is undeserved. I have been smoking pot since 1976 and have used just about any drug you can think of just to try them and have always worked and stayed out of trouble. If anything the only drug to get me in deep **** is booze.

 

[James D Hill]

You and I weren't around during the "Progressive Era" in America, but progressives were found in both the Republican and Democrat Parties and Theodore Roosevelt, Woodward Wilson, Dillingham, etc. were all progressives.

Progressives are nationalistic, militaristic and extremely WASPy.

Those today who hide behind the label of being a progressive are something else. Usually Marxist, socialist, the radical "New Left" and splinter groups that have broken away from Communist Party USA and Workers World party. Do you think these people could get elected to a public office without coming under the Democrat tent, putting a "D" behind their names and hiding behind the labels of either liberal or progressive ?

Teddy was not even a conservative. You are right about modern progressives. I am a socialist and have been one since 1983. You know as well as I do moral crusaders drove the temperance movement and they where social conservatives. It was also backed by guys like Henry Ford because he wanted a sober workforce. It was also backed by the KKK because they thought immagrants where drunks and if they where anything like my grandfather from Germany they where.

 

[nota bene]

What in the **** are you talking about? I am not a criminal. I have never been in jail. I have worked most of my adult life. Why would I be such a bad seed as to justify the venom coming out of you?

Maybe he didn't intend to be venomous but instead to be hinting at something?

 

[EdwinWillers]

Hey Mods, is there not a way to automatically flush these threads?

Why contaminate the sewer?

 

[James D Hill]

Maybe he didn't intend to be venomous but instead to be hinting at something?

Then maybe he needs to say what he means. This crap about painting all drug users as criminals and losers is just not true and anyone with half a brain knows that.

 

[APACHERAT]

Teddy was not even a conservative. You are right about modern progressives. I am a socialist and have been one since 1983. You know as well as I do moral crusaders drove the temperance movement and they where social conservatives. It was also backed by guys like Henry Ford because he wanted a sober workforce. It was also backed by the KKK because they thought immagrants where drunks and if they where anything like my grandfather from Germany they where.

Re: Prohibition.

I'm a historian researcher for some published historians and a couple of museums, not by profession but because I have access to the Huntington Library and know what history is written from. It's fun and informative.

I have read hundreds of personal journals and diaries of Americans from all classes of society from 1800 - 1910 and came to the conclusion that America had a serious problem with alcoholism during this time period. It seems that half of America were in a state of inebriation from dawn to dusk, especially in the cities of the northeast, Chicago, San Francisco, etc.

What prohibition did accomplish was for much of America to go through the DT's and dry out. When prohibition was repealed, new laws were passed mostly restricting where and when alcohol could be sold.

I suppose you're old enough to remember when you were a kid on election days you couldn't even buy a can of beer until after the polls closed. I still remember when the coolers at stores had a chain and lock where the beer was on election day.

 

[nota bene]

Then maybe he needs to say what he means. This crap about painting all drug users as criminals and losers is just not true and anyone with half a brain knows that.

For all you know, he partakes of the ganja himself. For all you know, I do. It could be that he was suggesting that your narrow focus and empty sound-byte ideas might give others the idea that if you're a grown man of years who hasn't evolved further than focusing on weed, maybe you have partaken too much.

Which isn't to say that smoking dope necessarily damages anybody's brain. :mrgreen:

 

[James D Hill]

Re: Prohibition.

I'm a historian researcher for some published historians and a couple of museums, not by profession but because I have access to the Huntington Library and know what history is written from. It's fun and informative.

I have read hundreds of personal journals and diaries of Americans from all classes of society from 1800 - 1910 and came to the conclusion that America had a serious problem with alcoholism during this time period. It seems that half of America were in a state of inebriation from dawn to dusk, especially in the cities of the northeast, Chicago, San Francisco, etc.

What prohibition did accomplish was for much of America to go through the DT's and dry out. When prohibition was repealed, new laws were passed mostly restricting where and when alcohol could be sold.

I suppose you're old enough to remember when you were a kid on election days you couldn't even buy a can of beer until after the polls closed. I still remember when the coolers at stores had a chain and lock where the beer was on election day.

You are right about our drunken past. Grant and Sherman where both drunk all the time during the civil war.Listen I know you are a conservative and are influenced by old fashion morality. That is cool and I understand. What I don't like is that being forced on others. Freedom is having to put up with things you do not like or agree with. Why do you think the Mormons had to run to Utah for. All I am saying is people should be left alone if they do not hurt others. This crap about saying booze is OK along with smoking while you can't smoke pot at all even though it is by far a safer drug is just plain backwards. You are right in a perfeect world people would be clean a sober but we all know that will never happen so why do social conservatives think it is. Be pragmatic my friend.

 

[James D Hill]

For all you know, he partakes of the ganja himself. For all you know, I do. It could be that he was suggesting that your narrow focus and empty sound-byte ideas might give others the idea that if you're a grown man of years who hasn't evolved further than focusing on weed, maybe you have partaken too much.

Which isn't to say that smoking dope necessarily damages anybody's brain. :mrgreen:

I am just a B student. I was too lazy to work that hard in school. I am not a moron though and know first hand the damage done with the discrimination against pot smokers. Good workers have their job's taken from them for no other reason that the fact they smoke pot instead of drink. I personally have lost two jobs that way and it is not right. It has to end and will here in Washington.

 

[nota bene]

I am just a B student. I was too lazy to work that hard in school. I am not a moron though and know first hand the damage done with the discrimination against pot smokers. Good workers have their job's taken from them for no other reason that the fact they smoke pot instead of drink. I personally have lost two jobs that way and it is not right. It has to end and will here in Washington.

How did you lose your jobs? Were you drug-tested? If so, did you not know the company's policy on this? The people I know who enjoy smoking weed don't if their employers drug-test...because they'll lose their jobs.

 

[Excon]

So how much do we spend on the drug war? Billions a year. How much do we spend on puting people in prison fighting the drug war? Billions.

:lamo
Is that what you think?

I bet you even hate it more when it is spent on a lost cause.

Locking up criminals is not a lost cause.

what is prison other that taking care of people sitting on their butt?

What is prison besides that?

It is society saying that we do not want the criminal amongst us at this time. They failed to follow societies rules, so they do not get to be free as punishment. That is what it is. And while some may be sitting around on their butts, that and having to be taken care of, is part of it.

 

[Bodi]

Just like Shria law? Redneck talk does not help either. If the war on drugs ended them we could worry about real criminals and not just somebody who likes a differant intoxicant that you.

Are you drunk? :lol:

Redneck talk? What
War on drugs ended them? Who?
Different intoxicant that you? :lol:

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

I agree. Not all drugs are as safe as pot. I must ask you though. What drug is more dangerous than a half gallon of hard booze in the hands of teen's? Hell I bet even meth is safer than that possibility. What say you?

I am not all that familiar with meth... but am familiar with alcohol as a teen and up... and I think we have probably all, or at least many of us, have abused at some point... but I think meth is probably more coercive, more quickly ravaging to the body/mind, probably more addictive and if more of us had tried/used than alcohol, l which most of us seem to overcome, probably would be worse. I think because alcohol is legal, at least for adults, and has much wider use and availability, its affects on society are more pronounced. If as many people who drank alcohol at one point had also done meth, probably would not be good. Also, it has highly toxic ingredients, very dangerous when produced and often these leftovers are just dumped indiscriminately. If it was legalized probably the latter problem would not occur as much.

We cannot stop alcohol, we tried and could not as it was a part of our culture and heritage...meth is not/has not been and so can be more easily rooted out, stigmas attached, use discouraged as I do not think continued use brings anything but misery.

 

[sbrettt]

So how much do we spend on the drug war? Billions a year. How much do we spend on puting people in prison fighting the drug war? Billions. Now tell me again how you conservatives hate spending money. I bet you even hate it more when it is spent on a lost cause. Oh thats right you only hate entitlement spending but what is prison other that taking care of people sitting on their butt?

I don't think the drug war is a right vs left issue. A majority of politicians from both parties stand in the way of reforming drug laws. Our current president has, at times, stood in the way, even going as far to arrest people in states where marijuana is legal for having marijuana.

 

[Born Free]

So how much do we spend on the drug war? Billions a year. How much do we spend on puting people in prison fighting the drug war? Billions. Now tell me again how you conservatives hate spending money. I bet you even hate it more when it is spent on a lost cause. Oh thats right you only hate entitlement spending but what is prison other that taking care of people sitting on their butt?

Maybe it would be a good idea to explain what you mean by spending billions on the drug war. Are you suggesting all prescription drugs be sold over the counter, needing no Dr. approval, because many prescription drugs are sold on the black market. Is this part of the billions you say are spent on the drug war.

Are you suggesting that any prescription drug be sold over the counter to anyone at any age?

Are you suggesting that opium be sold over the counter to anyone at any age?

Are you suggesting heroin be sold over the counter to anyone at any age?

Are you suggesting cocaine be sold over the counter to anyone at any age?

Are you suggesting Barbiturates be sold over the counter to anyone at any age?

Are you suggesting Methadone be sold over the counter to anyone at any age?

Are you suggesting LSD be sold over the counter to anyone at any age?

Are you suggesting Anabolic steroids be sold over the counter to anyone at any age.

Are you suggesting that any athlete be able to take any drug at anytime to enhance their level of performance?

The point is, I have no idea what you mean by "how much do we spend on the drug war", first try and explain what drugs are you talking about. All of the above and then some or just one drug. What is it. Because I have no idea what your talking about.

Please tell me just how you liberals feel about letting anyone at any age get any drug they want just by asking. Tell me just how much money are we going to save by allowing any and all drugs to be given to anyone at any age? I would sure like to know.

 

[greengirl77]

The OLD guard of the GOP are who you are stuck on. The Tea Party crowd want to spend less.

Your partisan banter is surely amusing though.

Then why in the hell would they vote Republican 80% of the debt is on their shoulders, just goes to show you how stupid those idiots are.

 

[Surtr]

What in the **** are you talking about? I am not a criminal. I have never been in jail. I have worked most of my adult life. Why would I be such a bad seed as to justify the venom coming out of you?

I'm talking about the insane rhetoric you and others spout off constantly. People like you kill your own movement with extremist garbage that nobody wants to listen to, which discredits the real and valuable efforts of those who are intelligent and skilled enough to influence change.

 

[WCH]

Then why in the hell would they vote Republican 80% of the debt is on their shoulders, just goes to show you how stupid those idiots are.

Not sure where you got the 80% figure but, if you want to see more sensible spending and a possible end to the WOD and much of our foreign intervention, vote for someone like Rand Paul.

Hillary is a war hawk.

 

[ttwtt78640]

So how much do we spend on the drug war? Billions a year. How much do we spend on puting people in prison fighting the drug war? Billions. Now tell me again how you conservatives hate spending money. I bet you even hate it more when it is spent on a lost cause. Oh thats right you only hate entitlement spending but what is prison other that taking care of people sitting on their butt?

Why start a thread asking others silly questions? Do you really think that total federal spending on prisons exceeds that for low income based social "safety net" programs?

The Obama administration's $3.8 trillion 2011 budget proposal calls for a $527.5 million infusion for the federal Bureau of Prisons and judicial security — $227 million more than the proposed increase to Justice's national security program. The boost would bring the total Bureau of Prisons budget to $6.8 billion.

2011 budget gives federal prisons $528M - USATODAY.com

The total amount spent on these 80-plus federal welfare programs amounts to roughly $1.03 trillion. Importantly, these figures solely refer to means-tested welfare benefits. They exclude entitlement programs to which people contribute (e.g., Social Security and Medicare).

http://www.budget.senate.gov/republ...?File_id=34919307-6286-47ab-b114-2fd5bcedfeb5

 

[greengirl77]

Not sure where you got the 80% figure but, if you want to see more sensible spending and a possible end to the WOD and much of our foreign intervention, vote for someone like Rand Paul.

Hillary is a war hawk.

Rand Paul is like his father a rightwing nut job.

 

[WCH]

Rand Paul is like his father a rightwing nut job.

Yes but, he's against the WOD and using our military as the world's policemen.

 

[Muhammed]

The fact of the matter is that drug arrests are primarily made by the local police in our largest cities. And practically all of those cities are controlled by Democrats.

 

[digsbe]

We spend too much on prisons, that's why they should be more like labor camps forcing inmates to work off their stay.

 

[James D Hill]

The fact of the matter is that drug arrests are primarily made by the local police in our largest cities. And practically all of those cities are controlled by Democrats.

Yes but it is the moralist right wingers who scream the loudest when drug laws are changed. I must ask you why Islam hates Booze and drugs so bad? I think abuse of these intoxicants is the real sin not moderate use. The mormans think that way too.

 

[James D Hill]

We spend too much on prisons, that's why they should be more like labor camps forcing inmates to work off their stay.

Oh the redneck way of thinking. We tried that and it did nothing to stop crime.