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Hey right wing tightwads. How much do we spend on prisons?

James D Hill

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So how much do we spend on the drug war? Billions a year. How much do we spend on puting people in prison fighting the drug war? Billions. Now tell me again how you conservatives hate spending money. I bet you even hate it more when it is spent on a lost cause. Oh thats right you only hate entitlement spending but what is prison other that taking care of people sitting on their butt?
 

AlabamaPaul

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Hey Mods, is there not a way to automatically flush these threads?
 

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So how much do we spend on the drug war? Billions a year. How much do we spend on puting people in prison fighting the drug war? Billions. Now tell me again how you conservatives hate spending money. I bet you even hate it more when it is spent on a lost cause. Oh thats right you only hate entitlement spending but what is prison other that taking care of people sitting on their butt?
I agree that much of the WODs is hokum but, there's no way in Hell you can apply blame to just Conservatives.
 

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I agree that much of the WODs is hokum but, there's no way in Hell you can apply blame to just Conservatives.
No, but if you claim to be the party of small government and less spending, while claiming Democrats to be the opposite, then support of the drug war and imprisoning drug users is certainly contrary to those ideals. How do you reconcile locking lots of people up and spending a lot of money to do that with your desire for a smaller, less intrusive government? I should think that imprisoning someone is about as intrusive as you can get, and we all understand how expensive it is.
 

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No, but if you claim to be the party of small government and less spending, while claiming Democrats to be the opposite, then support of the drug war and imprisoning drug users is certainly contrary to those ideals. How do you reconcile locking lots of people up and spending a lot of money to do that with your desire for a smaller, less intrusive government? I should think that imprisoning someone is about as intrusive as you can get, and we all understand how expensive it is.
Yeah, Democrats definitely cannot claim smaller government huh? However they do claim to be "for" the people. That is contrary to their past history and current rhetoric.
 

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So how much do we spend on the drug war? Billions a year. How much do we spend on puting people in prison fighting the drug war? Billions. Now tell me again how you conservatives hate spending money. I bet you even hate it more when it is spent on a lost cause. Oh thats right you only hate entitlement spending but what is prison other that taking care of people sitting on their butt?
You are right, we spend too much. Felons should just be shot in order to save us time and money.
 

WCH

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No, but if you claim to be the party of small government and less spending, while claiming Democrats to be the opposite, then support of the drug war and imprisoning drug users is certainly contrary to those ideals. How do you reconcile locking lots of people up and spending a lot of money to do that with your desire for a smaller, less intrusive government? I should think that imprisoning someone is about as intrusive as you can get, and we all understand how expensive it is.
This might come as a surprise to some here, but, the WOD has become a gravy train for many a politician and LEO, many of whom live along the border with Mexico. And let forget that little incident know as "Fast and Furious". It goes all the way to the top.

Those who are complicit are many. It's become ingrained in the leadership and policies of this country.

I'm fine with it's complete destruction.
 

Paschendale

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Yeah, Democrats definitely cannot claim smaller government huh? However they do claim to be "for" the people. That is contrary to their past history and current rhetoric.
Democrats do not claim to be the party of small government. The reality is that neither party actually is, but Republicans claim to be. The loyalty of the modern Democratic party to the working and middle classes as opposed to the wealthy (who are the chief benefactors of most Republican policies) doesn't really factor into the drug war.

This might come as a surprise to some here, but, the WOD has become a gravy train for many a politician and LEO, many of whom live along the border with Mexico. And let forget that little incident know as "Fast and Furious". It goes all the way to the top.

Those who are complicit are many. It's become ingrained in the leadership and policies of this country.

I'm fine with it's complete destruction.
That's great. Why aren't the leaders of your party fine with its complete destruction? Why do you support them when they expand the drug war rather than do away with it?
 

WCH

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Democrats do not claim to be the party of small government. The reality is that neither party actually is, but Republicans claim to be. The loyalty of the modern Democratic party to the working and middle classes as opposed to the wealthy (who are the chief benefactors of most Republican policies) doesn't really factor into the drug war.



That's great. Why aren't the leaders of your party fine with its complete destruction? Why do you support them when they expand the drug war rather than do away with it?
The OLD guard of the GOP are who you are stuck on. The Tea Party crowd want to spend less.

Your partisan banter is surely amusing though.
 

Captain Adverse

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So how much do we spend on the drug war? Billions a year. How much do we spend on puting people in prison fighting the drug war? Billions. Now tell me again how you conservatives hate spending money. I bet you even hate it more when it is spent on a lost cause. Oh thats right you only hate entitlement spending but what is prison other that taking care of people sitting on their butt?
Well in response to your title, it's estimated that it takes between $30,000 and $50,000 a year to house each prisoner depending on the State and whether it is a State or Federal prison. Saying we have over 1.5 million prisoners currently incarcerated and taking an average of $40,000 a year across the nation...that would be about $60 billion per year to operate all prisons in America, State and Federal.

About 1/4 of that amount would apply to drug related inmates, sooo $15 billion a year for incarceration costs?

I'd estimate the same amount or more would go to law enforcement efforts nationwide...$15 to $20 billion?

Hard to get an estimate on court costs since some suspects pay their own legal fees while others use public defenders, and each case takes up differing amounts of time for salaried judges and prosecutors.

That would be my estimate. :)
 
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So how much do we spend on the drug war? Billions a year. How much do we spend on puting people in prison fighting the drug war? Billions. Now tell me again how you conservatives hate spending money. I bet you even hate it more when it is spent on a lost cause. Oh thats right you only hate entitlement spending but what is prison other that taking care of people sitting on their butt?
Apparently you haven't realized that not all conservatives believe that the drug war is justified. IMO putting marijuana smokers in prison is a nearly criminal misallocation of valuable resources when we have murders and rape cases to chase. Show me a stoner watching tv and I'll show you some one who isn't causing that much trouble.
 

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So how much do we spend on the drug war? Billions a year. How much do we spend on puting people in prison fighting the drug war? Billions. Now tell me again how you conservatives hate spending money. I bet you even hate it more when it is spent on a lost cause. Oh thats right you only hate entitlement spending but what is prison other that taking care of people sitting on their butt?
People like you are the reason why the war on drugs continues.
 

APACHERAT

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I agree that much of the WODs is hokum but, there's no way in Hell you can apply blame to just Conservatives.
It was the progressives who forced prohibition on America. And it was both Democrat progressives and Republican progressives who were responsible for most of America's drug laws.

So I don't see where conservatives fit in.
 

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No, but if you claim to be the party of small government and less spending, while claiming Democrats to be the opposite, then support of the drug war and imprisoning drug users is certainly contrary to those ideals. How do you reconcile locking lots of people up and spending a lot of money to do that with your desire for a smaller, less intrusive government? I should think that imprisoning someone is about as intrusive as you can get, and we all understand how expensive it is.
Republicans/conservatives are not just about cutting government spending willy nilly, if there is a valid use then we are wise enough not to be against it. While most might agree that marijuana usage is a personal choice and probably might/should be legal, there are a lot more drugs out there within the scope of the war on drugs and their usage can be very dangerous, their usage can/should be restricted. Conservatives are for protecting an orderly social unit maximizing individual choice without this becoming generally detrimental to the whole. I think a state big enough to keep us from becoming a Mexico with its cartel problems might be necessary. I could be convinced by a valid and logical argument otherwise and, as stated above, even lean towards making "weed" legal.

But I do not think we, US society, want chaos and the misery that much drug use leads to generally. We also view the lesson of the folly of Prohibition, which was, with its repeal, acknowledgement that some things, such as alcohol abuse, just cannot be prevented while allowing others, who can properly moderate, the enjoyment of its use to their benefit.

Finding/achieving that dynamic and often delicate balance is what we conservatives, IMO, are for.


Democrats do not claim to be the party of small government. The reality is that neither party actually is, but Republicans claim to be. The loyalty of the modern Democratic party to the working and middle classes as opposed to the wealthy (who are the chief benefactors of most Republican policies) doesn't really factor into the drug war.
I think that the original post in this regard that you were responding to above was saying that democrat party was/is not the party of small government but that the democrat party claims to be "for the people."

The people are, and should be, all the people...not choosing classes to be for and against...that is class warfare. Secondly, by being the party that advocates giving things from producers to those not producing just so they may go on not producing, then claiming to be for those people you are giving things to and yet at the same time also being for those, many of whom are of the middle class who as supporting both the other ends, rich and poor, who are the ones you are taking from, well, that seems the sole purview of the combination of contortionist-illusionist party, the democrats. They say look over here while waving minimal benefits to those who would accept them at the very bottom while disguising a gymnastic flexibility to at the very same time take from the middle class and the rich while waving a red scarf of blame only on the rich, the 1%ers, many of whom are democrats, but take the money/property from an entirety of the producers, all of whom are middle and upper class.
 

James D Hill

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I agree that much of the WODs is hokum but, there's no way in Hell you can apply blame to just Conservatives.
You can blame them for standing in the way of changing bad drug laws. Every time it is PC liberals,social conservatives and law and order conservatives who stand in the way of change. You are right about it not being just conservatives but they are by far the loudest voice in mantaining the status quo on the war on drugs.
 

James D Hill

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Apparently you haven't realized that not all conservatives believe that the drug war is justified. IMO putting marijuana smokers in prison is a nearly criminal misallocation of valuable resources when we have murders and rape cases to chase. Show me a stoner watching tv and I'll show you some one who isn't causing that much trouble.
I am afraid not all your peers agree with you my friend. I am just trying to point out the double standard of those law and order people. They are the first ones to bitch about foodstamps but they don't seem to have a problem with the bloated prison system which is costing us billions a year. That is the ultimate handout and waist of money.
 

James D Hill

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Republicans/conservatives are not just about cutting government spending willy nilly, if there is a valid use then we are wise enough not to be against it. While most might agree that marijuana usage is a personal choice and probably might/should be legal, there are a lot more drugs out there within the scope of the war on drugs and their usage can be very dangerous, their usage can/should be restricted. Conservatives are for protecting an orderly social unit maximizing individual choice without this becoming generally detrimental to the whole. I think a state big enough to keep us from becoming a Mexico with its cartel problems might be necessary. I could be convinced by a valid and logical argument otherwise and, as stated above, even lean towards making "weed" legal.

But I do not think we, US society, want chaos and the misery that much drug use leads to generally. We also view the lesson of the folly of Prohibition, which was, with its repeal, acknowledgement that some things, such as alcohol abuse, just cannot be prevented while allowing others, who can properly moderate, the enjoyment of its use to their benefit.

Finding/achieving that dynamic and often delicate balance is what we conservatives, IMO, are for.


I think that the original post in this regard that you were responding to above was saying that democrat party was/is not the party of small government but that the democrat party claims to be "for the people."

The people are, and should be, all the people...not choosing classes to be for and against...that is class warfare. Secondly, by being the party that advocates giving things from producers to those not producing just so they may go on not producing, then claiming to be for those people you are giving things to and yet at the same time also being for those, many of whom are of the middle class who as supporting both the other ends, rich and poor, who are the ones you are taking from, well, that seems the sole purview of the combination of contortionist-illusionist party, the democrats. They say look over here while waving minimal benefits to those who would accept them at the very bottom while disguising a gymnastic flexibility to at the very same time take from the middle class and the rich while waving a red scarf of blame only on the rich, the 1%ers, many of whom are democrats, but take the money/property from an entirety of the producers, all of whom are middle and upper class.
I agree. Not all drugs are as safe as pot. I must ask you though. What drug is more dangerous than a half gallon of hard booze in the hands of teen's? Hell I bet even meth is safer than that possibility. What say you?
 

James D Hill

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It was the progressives who forced prohibition on America. And it was both Democrat progressives and Republican progressives who were responsible for most of America's drug laws.

So I don't see where conservatives fit in.
It was the moral crusaders my friend and you know it. Last time I checked moral crusaders where conservatives who think they know better on what you do with your own body. I do not think Cary Nation was a progressive or a liberal my friend.
 

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"The government doesn't create jobs"

Where have I heard that before ?
 

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It was the moral crusaders my friend and you know it. Last time I checked moral crusaders where conservatives who think they know better on what you do with your own body. I do not think Cary Nation was a progressive or a liberal my friend.
You and I weren't around during the "Progressive Era" in America, but progressives were found in both the Republican and Democrat Parties and Theodore Roosevelt, Woodward Wilson, Dillingham, etc. were all progressives.

Progressives are nationalistic, militaristic and extremely WASPy.

Those today who hide behind the label of being a progressive are something else. Usually Marxist, socialist, the radical "New Left" and splinter groups that have broken away from Communist Party USA and Workers World party. Do you think these people could get elected to a public office without coming under the Democrat tent, putting a "D" behind their names and hiding behind the labels of either liberal or progressive ?
 

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You are right, we spend too much. Felons should just be shot in order to save us time and money.
Just like Shria law? Redneck talk does not help either. If the war on drugs ended them we could worry about real criminals and not just somebody who likes a differant intoxicant that you.
 

James D Hill

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This might come as a surprise to some here, but, the WOD has become a gravy train for many a politician and LEO, many of whom live along the border with Mexico. And let forget that little incident know as "Fast and Furious". It goes all the way to the top.

Those who are complicit are many. It's become ingrained in the leadership and policies of this country.

I'm fine with it's complete destruction.
That is why I come across as conservative bashing wgen both sides are guilty. What the conservatives do at election time is scream the liberal he or she is runnung against is "soft on crime" so you get liberals who act all tough to avoid that because it some places that label can get you defeated. That is what happened to many pro legalization polititions.
 

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Well in response to your title, it's estimated that it takes between $30,000 and $50,000 a year to house each prisoner depending on the State and whether it is a State or Federal prison. Saying we have over 1.5 million prisoners currently incarcerated and taking an average of $40,000 a year across the nation...that would be about $60 billion per year to operate all prisons in America, State and Federal.

About 1/4 of that amount would apply to drug related inmates, sooo $15 billion a year for incarceration costs?

I'd estimate the same amount or more would go to law enforcement efforts nationwide...$15 to $20 billion?

Hard to get an estimate on court costs since some suspects pay their own legal fees while others use public defenders, and each case takes up differing amounts of time for salaried judges and prosecutors.

That would be my estimate. :)
Yea the cost of forcing morality on others is high. That is why the drug war must end. We have anough real criminals as it is. Throwing someone in prison for 20 years because of a oz of cocaine is not worth it. I say hard booze is every bit as dangerous in the wrong hands as coke,crank or smack. They don't throw you in prison for 20 years for buying kids booze.
 

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People like you are the reason why the war on drugs continues.
What in the **** are you talking about? I am not a criminal. I have never been in jail. I have worked most of my adult life. Why would I be such a bad seed as to justify the venom coming out of you?
 

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Yea the cost of forcing morality on others is high. That is why the drug war must end. We have anough real criminals as it is. Throwing someone in prison for 20 years because of a oz of cocaine is not worth it. I say hard booze is every bit as dangerous in the wrong hands as coke,crank or smack. They don't throw you in prison for 20 years for buying kids booze.
There are groups throughout the US that openly defy laws and regulations as a livelihood

CA. pot growers, NC. bootleggers, people who salvage metals off military installations, etc.

Not like they're just sitting around waiting for change.
 
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