Hero (1 Viewer)

[Joby]

We can all agree that a Jew who did anything in his power to stop the nazis from taking him to a ghetto he will not be allowed to leave, until extermination, is a hero. So is anyone who helped people escape, or fight back, against a brainwashed enemy, believing it was carrying out Gods will to survive.

Is a Palestinian?

 

[Nexus]

We can all agree that a Jew who did anything in his power to stop the nazis from taking him to a ghetto he will not be allowed to leave, until extermination, is a hero. So is anyone who helped people escape, or fight back, against a brainwashed enemy, believing it was carrying out Gods will to survive.

Is a Palestinian?

We can all agree that a Palestenian who did anything in his power to stop Hamas terrorists from firing anymore rockets into Israel is a hero.

 

[BudLizard101]

Jews did it to survive. Palestinians are doing it to kill.

See a difference?

 

[RightinNYC]

We can all agree that a Jew who did anything in his power to stop the nazis from taking him to a ghetto he will not be allowed to leave, until extermination, is a hero. So is anyone who helped people escape, or fight back, against a brainwashed enemy, believing it was carrying out Gods will to survive.

Is a Palestinian?

I don't think you even understand the point you're trying to make.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

We can all agree that a Jew who did anything in his power to stop the nazis from taking him to a ghetto he will not be allowed to leave, until extermination, is a hero. So is anyone who helped people escape, or fight back, against a brainwashed enemy, believing it was carrying out Gods will to survive.

Is a Palestinian?

Sorry, there is no analogy in your statement. Try again.

 

[Joby]

I don't think you even understand the point you're trying to make.

I'm dreadfully sorry. Let me lay it out.

So far as I know, in the history of the world, there have been two mass movements in which a people claimed it was persecuted, and the only way for that to cease is if they took, by any means necessary, the land they lived on 2000 years ago, which, by the way, is there God given right to own.

People have, of course, resisted each of these movement, and in one case they are called heros and in another theyare called terrorists. The victors write the history books.

Anyway, one of these movements took on some of the strongest nations ion the world, and another took on some 3rd world countries. One was, fortunately, suffocated a few years after it began. The other hasn't.

Zionists are Jewish Nazis.

See my point?

 

[Gardener]

I'm dreadfully sorry. Let me lay it out.

So far as I know, in the history of the world, there have been two mass movements in which a people claimed it was persecuted, and the only way for that to cease is if they took, by any means necessary, the land they lived on 2000 years ago, which, by the way, is there God given right to own.

People have, of course, resisted each of these movement, and in one case they are called heros and in another theyare called terrorists. The victors write the history books.

Anyway, one of these movements took on some of the strongest nations ion the world, and another took on some 3rd world countries. One was, fortunately, suffocated a few years after it began. The other hasn't.

Zionists are Jewish Nazis.

See my point?

You have no point other than blind, ignorant hatred.

 

[BudLizard101]

I'm dreadfully sorry. Let me lay it out.

So far as I know, in the history of the world, there have been two mass movements in which a people claimed it was persecuted, and the only way for that to cease is if they took, by any means necessary, the land they lived on 2000 years ago, which, by the way, is there God given right to own.

People have, of course, resisted each of these movement, and in one case they are called heros and in another theyare called terrorists. The victors write the history books.

Anyway, one of these movements took on some of the strongest nations ion the world, and another took on some 3rd world countries. One was, fortunately, suffocated a few years after it began. The other hasn't.

Zionists are Jewish Nazis.

See my point?

If only you had a legit point to see.

Have the Jews ever said that they must destroy Germany? Have the Jews waged war on Germany?

What happened as soon as Israel was created? your hate filled middle eastern buddies decided it was time to "push the Jews into the sea."

See a difference? If not I'll point out countless more examples of how Jews:Germany != terr.. err, palestinians: Israel

 

[Vader]

I don't think you even understand the point you're trying to make.

That's because he has no point.

:shock:

 

[Tashah]

Every once in a while I see a glimmer of critical thinking from Joby. But alas, he quickly reverts back to form.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

I'm dreadfully sorry. Let me lay it out.

So far as I know, in the history of the world, there have been two mass movements in which a people claimed it was persecuted, and the only way for that to cease is if they took, by any means necessary, the land they lived on 2000 years ago, which, by the way, is there God given right to own.

People have, of course, resisted each of these movement, and in one case they are called heros and in another theyare called terrorists. The victors write the history books.

Anyway, one of these movements took on some of the strongest nations ion the world, and another took on some 3rd world countries. One was, fortunately, suffocated a few years after it began. The other hasn't.

Zionists are Jewish Nazis.

See my point?

I'll say it again, Joby, your point has absolutely no analogy in it. Try again.

 

[Joby]

If only you had a legit point to see.

Have the Jews ever said that they must destroy Germany? Have the Jews waged war on Germany?

What happened as soon as Israel was created? your hate filled middle eastern buddies decided it was time to "push the Jews into the sea."

See a difference? If not I'll point out countless more examples of how Jews:Germany != terr.. err, palestinians: Israel

I'm not saying there is any sentiment lingering in Israel for the destruction of Germany.

All I'm saying is Zionism and Nazism share some basic, fundamental goals, and people who resist each movement should receive the same judgement.

By the logic of Zionism, a Czech who fought the Germans who claimed that the land he lived on for 1900 years is actually theres because they lived on it 2000 years ago...is a terrorist.

I don't mean to use this as a reason to repeat the holocaust, it's just a comparison.

Anyone care to debate the issue? Prove me wrong? Hammer my nuts in the ground?

 

[Real Korimyr #9]

Joby does have a point. That land was forcibly taken from the Palestinians in order to allow the new Israelis to settle there; it's hardly reasonable to expect them not to resist this.

If it had been done to me and my people, I would absolutely resist-- until there was no more breath in my body, and the pile of my enemies' corpses was too heavy even for a Valkyrie's horse. And I'd teach my children the same.

 

[Deegan]

Joby does have a point. That land was forcibly taken from the Palestinians in order to allow the new Israelis to settle there; it's hardly reasonable to expect them not to resist this.

If it had been done to me and my people, I would absolutely resist-- until there was no more breath in my body, and the pile of my enemies' corpses was too heavy even for a Valkyrie's horse. And I'd teach my children the same.

Perhaps they should turn their anger where it really belongs, the British, these people are just innocent immigrants returning to their homeland, I'd teach my children that first! Then I would tell them how this mass immigration did much for the entire Arab world, and still does today, as they don't all posess oil and other natural resources. Then I might tell them how people should just learn to live together, and that hatred only eats you up inside, and that's no way to live.

But that's just me, perhaps he does have a point, I'd suggest a bigger hat.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

I'm not saying there is any sentiment lingering in Israel for the destruction of Germany.

All I'm saying is Zionism and Nazism share some basic, fundamental goals, and people who resist each movement should receive the same judgement.

By the logic of Zionism, a Czech who fought the Germans who claimed that the land he lived on for 1900 years is actually theres because they lived on it 2000 years ago...is a terrorist.

I don't mean to use this as a reason to repeat the holocaust, it's just a comparison.

Anyone care to debate the issue? Prove me wrong? Hammer my nuts in the ground?

I wouldn't mind debating you on this, but I have a few caveats. Firstly, I still see no analogy between your presentation of Zionism and Nazism; you need to clarify. Also, you need to present your working definition of Zionism. This term has been, often, misconstrued, misinterpretted, or misdefined. The definition we are using will impact the debate focus and my desire to debate. E.g., using Zionism as nothing more than an anti-Jewish definition is pointless and attacking and shows lack of desire to debate...not saying this is what you would do, just making a point.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Joby does have a point. That land was forcibly taken from the Palestinians in order to allow the new Israelis to settle there; it's hardly reasonable to expect them not to resist this.

This is not correct. Some Palestinians were forced out, but most left of their own volition for a variety of reasons (not wanting to live in a 'Jewish State', not wanting to be harmed in the inevitable attacks by neighboring Arab nations, for example).

Do you have evidence that Palestinians were removed 'en masse' to allow new Israelis to settle there? And do not include the 40,000 from Lydda and Ramale; I will certainly give you those as they were definitely forcably expelled. What of the other estimated 700,000?

 

[Vader]

Joby does have a point. That land was forcibly taken from the Palestinians in order to allow the new Israelis to settle there; it's hardly reasonable to expect them not to resist this.

If it had been done to me and my people, I would absolutely resist-- until there was no more breath in my body, and the pile of my enemies' corpses was too heavy even for a Valkyrie's horse. And I'd teach my children the same.

Passing hate to children is a shameful form of abuse. This form of abuse is one of the major problems with muslim countries; in fact, it's why they often referred to as "brainwashed" islam-o-nazis.

By your logic, the IRA should still be killing english citizens because Ireland was forcibly taken by King George back in the 1100s. By your logic, the Irish should be teaching thier children that the english are evil and they were spawned from pigs.

For shame I say!

:smile:

 

[superskippy]

There is no comparison to make between whatever plight the Palestinians may be in, and the Holocaust. The Palestinians while they may claim they are suffering simply cannot compare to the organized industrial slaughter of some 12,000,000 Jews, Gays, Roma, Sinti, and other victims. The drastic difference between the two situations should be very quick to note. The Palestinian terrorists and militants claim a right to slaughter Israeli civilians in order to aid themselves. Even the Jewish partisan and militia groups didnt spent their time blowing up German settlers and Prussian civilians. If the Palestinians truly want to emulate that even if it is in a sick diluted analogy of the two situations, they would target soldiers not people sitting down to dinner in a restaurant.

There is no analogy you can draw between the two, even the lesser philisophical point you aim to push across isnt supported and on it's own stands on the barest of supports.

 

[Real Korimyr #9]

Passing hate to children is a shameful form of abuse.

Passing enslavement and a sense of inferiority is far worse-- and allowing them to learn it from their rulers is as bad as teaching it yourself.

By your logic, the IRA should still be killing English citizens because Ireland was forcibly taken by King George back in the 1100s.

Hell of a difference between nine hundred years and fifty-- and the reason that they're finally stopping is integration, which is denied to the Palestinians. And, for that matter... if a bunch of Irish nationalists decided to forget this "peace process" and tried to take back their country, I can't say as I'd condemn them for it.

Of course, I'd support the English in crushing them under heel, too. But I've never made a secret of my respect for Israel and my support for our alliance with them, either.

 

[Vader]

Passing enslavement and a sense of inferiority is far worse-- and allowing them to learn it from their rulers is as bad as teaching it yourself.


Hell of a difference between nine hundred years and fifty-- and the reason that they're finally stopping is integration, which is denied to the Palestinians. And, for that matter... if a bunch of Irish nationalists decided to forget this "peace process" and tried to take back their country, I can't say as I'd condemn them for it.

Of course, I'd support the English in crushing them under heel, too. But I've never made a secret of my respect for Israel and my support for our alliance with them, either.

If the Palestinians would stop attacking Israel, the sanctions Israel put on them would, in all likelihood, be relaxed. The Israelis are tired of dealing with Palestinian suicide cowards who do nothing but cause destruction in the name of their programmer's perverted version of Islam.

The brainwashed Palestinians and their perverted form of Islam are 99% of the problem in that region. If the Palestinians would cease all terrorist activities, there would be peace. Israel would have no reason to retaliate and the dogs of war, which seem to be running wild in that section of the world, would surely be put back in their respective kennels.

 

[Joby]

I wouldn't mind debating you on this, but I have a few caveats. Firstly, I still see no analogy between your presentation of Zionism and Nazism; you need to clarify. Also, you need to present your working definition of Zionism. This term has been, often, misconstrued, misinterpretted, or misdefined. The definition we are using will impact the debate focus and my desire to debate. E.g., using Zionism as nothing more than an anti-Jewish definition is pointless and attacking and shows lack of desire to debate...not saying this is what you would do, just making a point.

Zionism- The belief, started in the late 1800s by Theodor Herzl, that the Jewish people have been persecuted and harassed by the nations, and people of those nations, they live in. Until the Jews return to the land that, history shows, they lived on approximately 2000 years ago, this harassment will continue.

Zionists have stated that the goals for the state are that it must be Jewish, be democratic, and include all te land of Israel. Many Israelis on teh far right believe all Israel must be reclaimed in order for the messiah to come, though I'm iffy on the details and it will be enough to say that they were the first to begin settling in the West Bank and Gaza. The government has made some of these settlers leave, though the majority still exist.

'Classical' Nazism (the type Hitler spewwed, not the 'neos' of today)- Germany, and the Germans, have been persecuted and harassed by the nations around it, and some of the people in those nations and within its our nation. This persecution will continue until the German people reclaim the land that, history shows, they lived on approximately 2000 years ago.

Nazis have said that the state must be all German, be fascist, and include all the lands of what Germania was 2000 years ago. The people who stand in their way and leech on the German people, must be removed by any means necessary.


Another question is Would Israel have done the same to the Palestinians as was done to them by the Germans if they could get away with it?

 

[Joby]

There is no comparison to make between whatever plight the Palestinians may be in, and the Holocaust. The Palestinians while they may claim they are suffering simply cannot compare to the organized industrial slaughter of some 12,000,000 Jews, Gays, Roma, Sinti, and other victims. The drastic difference between the two situations should be very quick to note. The Palestinian terrorists and militants claim a right to slaughter Israeli civilians in order to aid themselves. Even the Jewish partisan and militia groups didnt spent their time blowing up German settlers and Prussian civilians. If the Palestinians truly want to emulate that even if it is in a sick diluted analogy of the two situations, they would target soldiers not people sitting down to dinner in a restaurant.

There is no analogy you can draw between the two, even the lesser philisophical point you aim to push across isnt supported and on it's own stands on the barest of supports.

We killed 100,000 Germans in a city with almost no military installations one day during the war.

Would the Resistance movements-the ones that actually fought-have killed civilians if they began living in their homes immediately during the war?

And on a sidenote, did you not see what was the reason for the two conflicts this summer? It wasn't any attack on civilian institions...though you can be forgiven for thinking so after Israels response.

 

[Vader]

We killed 100,000 Germans in a city with almost no military installations one day during the war.

Would the Resistance movements-the ones that actually fought-have killed civilians if they began living in their homes immediately during the war?

And on a sidenote, did you not see what was the reason for the two conflicts this summer? It wasn't any attack on civilian institions...though you can be forgiven for thinking so after Israels response.

Again, an ultra-liberal trying to justify the actions of the nazis by pointing out a statistic that has no factual basis.

The Germans commited GENOCIDE...by murdering 12,000,000 people of various religious, social, and sexual beliefs. Comparing this to 100,000 nazis` dying during WWII is like comparing apples and oranges.

Also, comparing the Palistinans (who are about 65% terrorist-owned) plight to that of the jews in WWII is just plain offensive. Shame on you sir. How do you sleep at night?

The Palestinians are terrorists who brought this misery on themselves. There have been NUMEROUS (more then you can count) attempts to make peace with them. The terrorist-owned half of Palestine will not accept anything less than the destruction of Israel...so f**k them and they camel they rode in on. They need to be neutralized so that the peace process can go forward.

If Hamas was not in power, there would be a much greater chance of successfully achiveing a peaceful end to the conflict.

:doh

 

[rathi]

Palestine and Israel fight over some pointless revenge based nationalistic/religous nonsense. At this point, moral judgement is not my thing, although practically the palestinians are screwing themselves by continuing the conflict.

That said, the holocaust was much much much worse. Comparing the two is completely unreasonable. At worse, israel wants to control land and terrority. Germany wanted to slaughter entire ethnic groups. If israel truly wanted the palestinians dead, they would be. People forget that most modern weapons are used to try a minimize civilian casulties. If used to maximize, they would be devastating indeed. Israel is defintely holding back, and any reasonable debate would only be on to degree they are holding back.

 

[Vader]

Palestine and Israel fight over some pointless revenge based nationalistic/religous nonsense. At this point, moral judgement is not my thing, although practically the palestinians are screwing themselves by continuing the conflict.

That said, the holocaust was much much much worse. Comparing the two is completely unreasonable. At worse, israel wants to control land and terrority. Germany wanted to slaughter entire ethnic groups. If israel truly wanted the palestinians dead, they would be. People forget that most modern weapons are used to try a minimize civilian casulties. If used to maximize, they would be devastating indeed. Israel is defintely holding back, and any reasonable debate would only be on to degree they are holding back.

This is true. Likewise, if Israel had totally taken its gloves of in Lebanon, there would not longer be a Beruit. Nezrallah's cowardly-assed Hizb'ebolla is well aware of this fact. Why do you think Nezrallah ran and hid like a coward? He was terrified of what would happen if Israel opened a can of un-held back whoopass on Lebanon.

:smile: