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Here's one for the Constitution wonks.

Torus34

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Sort of, the reasoning the Court ultimately determined as unpersuasive in the Chiafalo case is parallel to the reasoning to allow legislatures to perform an 11th hour switch.
Hi!

I'm convinced, though President of the United States of America Donald Trump may not be, that 11th hour switches will not fly. The possibility of legislation well in advance of Election Day playing games with the importance of the popular vote in a state is still untested, as far as I can determine. It's quite different from unfaithful electors, in that the electors would be entirely faithful to the will of the ruling party in the state.

Regards, stay safe 'n well.
 

Captain Adverse

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Hi!

Thank you for the response and, most especially, for the link. My proposed 'What if' may not be anywhere near as clear cut as I thought. Looks like it may be back to researching for me.

Reminder. I try to respond to all who quote my posts. If you do not get a response from me, it may be that you've made it onto my 'Ignore' list.
I suggest you look at my post # 99.
 

Torus34

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I suggest you look at my post # 99.
Hi!

Just did. That's tricky, subtle reasoning. It's often interesting to see what happens when something is looked at carefully and the actual wording's logically parsed out. [Side note: there's a sub-branch of philosophy devoted to critical appraisal. It's part of epistemology. I've just started digging into it.]

We seem to have entered into an era in which any number of things which Mr. Kenneth Galbraith would sum as 'conventional wisdom' can, when examined critically, turn out to be anything but cut and dried. I am not sure what part the internet, with its ability for people to access both truth and falsehood, plays in this. I will not live long enough to see what historians will make of this 20 years from now.

Regards, stay safe 'n well.
 

NotreDame

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Hi!

I'm convinced, though President of the United States of America Donald Trump may not be, that 11th hour switches will not fly. The possibility of legislation well in advance of Election Day playing games with the importance of the popular vote in a state is still untested, as far as I can determine. It's quite different from unfaithful electors, in that the electors would be entirely faithful to the will of the ruling party in the state.

Regards, stay safe 'n well.
I agree. I misread your opening post. Mea culpa. Your OP would not run afoul of the Constitution, and is consistent with Chiafalo.
 

Torus34

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I agree. I misread your opening post. Mea culpa. Your OP would not run afoul of the Constitution, and is consistent with Chiafalo.
Hi!

Many thanks for taking my post seriously and thinking about it. Frankly, given the ease with which some of my fellow Americans sign on to a cult of personality, I'm concerned for the future of democracy in this country I love and have served.

Regards, best wishes to you and yours.
 

NWRatCon

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There is some language in Chiafalo that makes me worried about the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact (NPVIC), even though I support the NPVIC. But, I also think it is important to remember that the Presidency (which included the VP) is the only office in the United States that allows the people the opportunity to directly elect a national leader. As such, the vote is not really a State-level vote, and those voters can be treated differently (and frequently are). Senators and Representatives, while in national government, are selected to represent their respective States and Districts on behalf of the people of the State. While the Senate and House are national bodies, history, including recent history, demonstrates just how parochial those bodies are (something that our founders were afraid of). Even worse is when they represent a party instead of either national or State interests (something the framers were even more wary of).

What I like about the NPVIC is that it take the interests of the entire nation, as a whole, into consideration, and cuts through the parochial nature of our politics. Republicans don't like it because they have lost seven of the last eight popular votes. But that is an even narrower - and less patriotic - view than State parochialism. I think the presidential vote is the best barometer of where we are as a country. It may be an imperfect one, but it is the one time, every four years, when The People get a voice on where we are going as a country. That sentiment should be reflected, directly, in our representation. It certainly isn't in the House and Senate (for reasons that I've elucidated in several other threads).
 

Captain Adverse

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There is some language in Chiafalo that makes me worried about the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact (NPVIC), even though I support the NPVIC. But, I also think it is important to remember that the Presidency (which included the VP) is the only office in the United States that allows the people the opportunity to directly elect a national leader. As such, the vote is not really a State-level vote, and those voters can be treated differently (and frequently are). Senators and Representatives, while in national government, are selected to represent their respective States and Districts on behalf of the people of the State. While the Senate and House are national bodies, history, including recent history, demonstrates just how parochial those bodies are (something that our founders were afraid of). Even worse is when they represent a party instead of either national or State interests (something the framers were even more wary of).

What I like about the NPVIC is that it take the interests of the entire nation, as a whole, into consideration, and cuts through the parochial nature of our politics. Republicans don't like it because they have lost seven of the last eight popular votes. But that is an even narrower - and less patriotic - view than State parochialism. I think the presidential vote is the best barometer of where we are as a country. It may be an imperfect one, but it is the one time, every four years, when The People get a voice on where we are going as a country. That sentiment should be reflected, directly, in our representation. It certainly isn't in the House and Senate (for reasons that I've elucidated in several other threads).
The problem is that you started off your argument with a mis-statement. The President is not "directly elected by the people." While it is the position of "national leader," it was set up (and still is) for election by "intermediaries." That is what Electors chosen by howsoever the State Legislatures decide. While those State Legislatures have currently set up a couple of methods allowing the citizens in each State to vote for a Presidential candidate and thus determine Elector allocation. it is still based on how each States citizens voted.

The problem with the NPVIC is that this literally disenfranchises citizens in those States where a majority of the citizens voted for one candidate, only to have all their "Electors" given to the candidate they did not vote for.

This gives power to those states States with the largest populations, and thus encourages elected and appointed officials in the Federal government to HEAVILY FAVOR those States when it comes to allocations of funding and also "national" policy decisions.

This completely undermines the idea of a Federal system designed to represent different States with different needs and goals. IMO that would lead to efforts at "secession" by those States whose citizens no longer feel like they have any real say.

Either that, or we drift into a society modeled on Panem of "Hunger Games" fame, where the cites are taken care of while the farmers, miners, etc. who do the production are simply economic "slaves."
 
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