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Here's one for the Constitution wonks.

Torus34

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Consider a situation in which one political party controls the state legislatures of enough states so that their electors -- those the states name as members of the Electoral College -- are more than 270 in number. Now suppose the state houses of those states specifically designate as electors people who will vote for the presidential candidate of their party without regard for the popular vote in their states.

The Electoral College will then select the president of the United States of America even if almost all of the voters in those specific states voted for the candidate of the other major party.

Interesting, nu?


Regards, stay safe 'n well. Remember the prophylactic Big 3: masks, hand washing and physical distancing.


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Deuce

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Yes, that is a possibility the constitution allows for.

In fact, the interstate popular vote compact relies on this mechanism.
 

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Yes, that is a possibility the constitution allows for.

In fact, the interstate popular vote compact relies on this mechanism.
I'd wager real money the NPVIC will enjoy unprecedented support after this debacle.
No rational person ever wants to see this sort of threat to democracy ever happen again.
 

Deuce

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I'd wager real money the NPVIC will enjoy unprecedented support after this debacle.
No rational person ever wants to see this sort of threat to democracy ever happen again.
Maybe some liberals who didn't already support it, but Republican support is not going to increase. They've lost the popular vote in seven out of the last eight presidential elections.
 

Craig234

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Consider a situation in which one political party controls the state legislatures of enough states so that their electors -- those the states name as members of the Electoral College -- are more than 270 in number. Now suppose the state houses of those states specifically designate as electors people who will vote for the presidential candidate of their party without regard for the popular vote in their states.

The Electoral College will then select the president of the United States of America even if almost all of the voters in those specific states voted for the candidate of the other major party.

Interesting, nu?


Regards, stay safe 'n well. Remember the prophylactic Big 3: masks, hand washing and physical distancing.


Reminder. I try to respond to all who quote my posts. If you do not get a response from me, it may be that you've made it onto my 'Ignore' list.
I've been saying for a while, this is a possible scenario. That Americans wrongly think the presidential election is determined by their votes, albeit in the electoral system, but actually listening to the voters is only a more modern choice the legislatures make.

This is a threat in our constitution most don't even know exists. In theory, doing it might anger voters that they aren't listened to, but in practice, it appears that the Republican voters are happy for democracy to be ended to help them win, so it'd be up to Democrats to win these state elections they have been unable to to fix it for later elections, if there are still such elections.
 

Captain Adverse

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I've been saying for a while, this is a possible scenario. That Americans wrongly think the presidential election is determined by their votes, albeit in the electoral system, but actually listening to the voters is only a more modern choice the legislatures make.

This is a threat in our constitution most don't even know exists. In theory, doing it might anger voters that they aren't listened to, but in practice, it appears that the Republican voters are happy for democracy to be ended to help them win, so it'd be up to Democrats to win these state elections they have been unable to to fix it for later elections, if there are still such elections.
The only reason they don't know it exists, or how the system was designed to work is because they were never taught this in school.

I guess some teachers were too busy instructing them on how awful our nation was, and how evil it remains, and so failed to teach them proper Constitutional History. 🤷‍♂️
 

calamity

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Consider a situation in which one political party controls the state legislatures of enough states so that their electors -- those the states name as members of the Electoral College -- are more than 270 in number. Now suppose the state houses of those states specifically designate as electors people who will vote for the presidential candidate of their party without regard for the popular vote in their states.

The Electoral College will then select the president of the United States of America even if almost all of the voters in those specific states voted for the candidate of the other major party.

Interesting, nu?


Regards, stay safe 'n well. Remember the prophylactic Big 3: masks, hand washing and physical distancing.


Reminder. I try to respond to all who quote my posts. If you do not get a response from me, it may be that you've made it onto my 'Ignore' list.
Most states now have laws on the books clearly stating that the vote of the people determines electors. But, even if they did not, legislators cannot simply overturn the votes of the people. It's a due process issue.

They can change the rules ahead of time, however, In theory, a state can cancel it's presidential election and declare that the state will choose the president by votes in the legislature. Good luck with that.
 

calamity

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I've been saying for a while, this is a possible scenario. That Americans wrongly think the presidential election is determined by their votes, albeit in the electoral system, but actually listening to the voters is only a more modern choice the legislatures make.

This is a threat in our constitution most don't even know exists. In theory, doing it might anger voters that they aren't listened to, but in practice, it appears that the Republican voters are happy for democracy to be ended to help them win, so it'd be up to Democrats to win these state elections they have been unable to to fix it for later elections, if there are still such elections.
The only reason they don't know it exists, or how the system was designed to work is because they were never taught this in school.

I guess some teachers were too busy instructing them on how awful our nation was, and ho evil it has been, and so failed to teach them proper Constitutional History. 🤷‍♂️
Actually, that is incorrect. Once a vote is held, no one can simply overturn it.

State legislatures have empowered the voters to choose presidential electors by statute. Michigan state law, for example, specifies that “at the general November election … electors of president and vice president of the United States shall be elected.” The governor of the state is directed by law to certify the “names of the electors chosen as electors” as soon as the canvassing board “ascertained the result of an election as to electors of president and vice-president of the United States.” Having directed this manner for appointing presidential electors, there is no further role for the state legislature to play in the process under existing law.

 

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The only reason they don't know it exists, or how the system was designed to work is because they were never taught this in school.

I guess some teachers were too busy instructing them on how awful our nation was, and how evil it remains, and so failed to teach them proper Constitutional History. 🤷‍♂️
A president strongarming officials to ignore the vote of the people and remain in power is not how the system was designed to work.
 

jnug

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I'd wager real money the NPVIC will enjoy unprecedented support after this debacle.
No rational person ever wants to see this sort of threat to democracy ever happen again.
I don't think so. In many ways the NPVIC is more dangerous than the EC. At any rate State Legislatures can only choose a slate of Electors to the EC in very specific sets of circumstances none of which exist in the 2020 election for example. This is actually why Donnie's attempted Coup will fail I HOPE!!!!!

We need to abandon Norms and adopt more Laws leaving fewer loopholes for scumbags like Donnie and what is left of the GOP to jump through.
 

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The only reason they don't know it exists, or how the system was designed to work is because they were never taught this in school.

I guess some teachers were too busy instructing them on how awful our nation was, and how evil it remains, and so failed to teach them proper Constitutional History. 🤷‍♂️
I suspect that textbooks cover the 3/5ths compromise and the Electoral College but don't emphasize that the Electoral College was apportioned using the 3/5ths compromise.
 

Torus34

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I've been saying for a while, this is a possible scenario. That Americans wrongly think the presidential election is determined by their votes, albeit in the electoral system, but actually listening to the voters is only a more modern choice the legislatures make.

This is a threat in our constitution most don't even know exists. In theory, doing it might anger voters that they aren't listened to, but in practice, it appears that the Republican voters are happy for democracy to be ended to help them win, so it'd be up to Democrats to win these state elections they have been unable to to fix it for later elections, if there are still such elections.
Hi!

Thank you for taking time to respond. Many Americans do not realize how fragile a government actually is. I've noted from time to time that the US is in a metastable position between too little public interest/involvement and too much. History provides examples of what happens to democracies* when one political party makes a concerted effort to convert them to single-party states.


Regards, stay safe 'n well. Remember the prophylactic Big 3: masks, hand washing and physical distancing.


Reminder. I try to respond to all who quote my posts. If you do not get a response from me, it may be that you've made it onto my 'Ignore' list.


* Yes, Gotcha! Gang. I know the US is a republic.
 

Torus34

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Most states now have laws on the books clearly stating that the vote of the people determines electors. But, even if they did not, legislators cannot simply overturn the votes of the people. It's a due process issue.

They can change the rules ahead of time, however, In theory, a state can cancel it's presidential election and declare that the state will choose the president by votes in the legislature. Good luck with that.
Hi!

Thank you for the reply. Theory can all too quickly become practice when a political party decides to play 'winner takes all' by extending legality to its limits. We are witness to such an attempt at the present. It should scare the bejeepers out of any thinking American.


Regards, stay safe 'n well. Remember the prophylactic Big 3: masks, hand washing and physical distancing.


Reminder. I try to respond to all who quote my posts. If you do not get a response from me, it may be that you've made it onto my 'Ignore' list.
 

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Maybe some liberals who didn't already support it, but Republican support is not going to increase. They've lost the popular vote in seven out of the last eight presidential elections.
It's a matter of state by state ratification more than support by individuals. Sure they do need support from the people but at the end of the day it is the state legislatures which will ratify it, and we're only a handful of votes away now.

I am almost wagering that this sh*t show will push the states currently on the fence over the top because I doubt any state legislature ever wants to be bullied again. Real actual conservatives despise big federal government pressure telling their state how to think.
 

Checkerboard Strangler

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I don't think so. In many ways the NPVIC is more dangerous than the EC. At any rate State Legislatures can only choose a slate of Electors to the EC in very specific sets of circumstances none of which exist in the 2020 election for example. This is actually why Donnie's attempted Coup will fail I HOPE!!!!!

We need to abandon Norms and adopt more Laws leaving fewer loopholes for scumbags like Donnie and what is left of the GOP to jump through.
NPVIC closes loopholes.
Trump is trying to "GUS" the election.
NPVIC closes the GUS loopholes.

Gus_(1976_film)_poster.jpg
 
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Consider a situation in which one political party controls the state legislatures of enough states so that their electors -- those the states name as members of the Electoral College -- are more than 270 in number. Now suppose the state houses of those states specifically designate as electors people who will vote for the presidential candidate of their party without regard for the popular vote in their states.

The Electoral College will then select the president of the United States of America even if almost all of the voters in those specific states voted for the candidate of the other major party.

Interesting, nu?


Regards, stay safe 'n well. Remember the prophylactic Big 3: masks, hand washing and physical distancing.


Reminder. I try to respond to all who quote my posts. If you do not get a response from me, it may be that you've made it onto my 'Ignore' list.
Yes, many of us are aware of this.

The Repug Party will eventually use these Electoral College loopholes in the Constitution to steal a Presidential election. It may not happen this year, but it will eventually happen in a closer election that comes down to 1 or 2 states.

This is a major reason why the Electoral College needs to be abolished.
 

less right

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The only reason they don't know it exists, or how the system was designed to work is because they were never taught this in school.

I guess some teachers were too busy instructing them on how awful our nation was, and how evil it remains, and so failed to teach them proper Constitutional History. 🤷‍♂️
It's a real tragedy of our education system that the kids aren't learning that the President can do whatever he wants.
 

Captain Adverse

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It's a real tragedy of our education system that the kids aren't learning that the President can do whatever he wants.
Non sequitur. :rolleyes:

Fallacious responses are all your side of the argument typically seem to have...with very few exceptions.

Yours not being one. :coffee:
 

less right

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Non sequitur. :rolleyes:

Fallacious responses are all your side of the argument typically seem to have...with very few exceptions.

Yours not being one. :coffee:
You don't want to have to answer for what Trump would stick in our education system. I get it.
 

jnug

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Yes, many of us are aware of this.

The Repug Party will eventually use these Electoral College loopholes in the Constitution to steal a Presidential election. It may not happen this year, but it will eventually happen in a closer election that comes down to 1 or 2 states.

This is a major reason why the Electoral College needs to be abolished.
And if the entire country or a significant portion of it is bound up in NPVIC one would only have to "fix" one electoral element as opposed to fifty. Isn't that plainly obvious?
 

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Yes, many of us are aware of this.

The Repug Party will eventually use these Electoral College loopholes in the Constitution to steal a Presidential election. It may not happen this year, but it will eventually happen in a closer election that comes down to 1 or 2 states.

This is a major reason why the Electoral College needs to be abolished.
Hi!

It's one thing to identify a problem and quite another to fix it. At present, I can see no path to a successful constitutional amendment repealing the Electoral College.


Regards, stay safe 'n well. Remember the prophylactic Big 3: masks, hand washing and physical distancing.


Reminder. I try to respond to all who quote my posts. If you do not get a response from me, it may be that you've made it onto my 'Ignore' list.
 

d0gbreath

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You'll never see a single state do that. Everyone would know. How would they be able to determine the real assassins in an angry crowd of millions of people?
 

jnug

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Hi!

It's one thing to identify a problem and quite another to fix it. At present, I can see no path to a successful constitutional amendment repealing the Electoral College.


Regards, stay safe 'n well. Remember the prophylactic Big 3: masks, hand washing and physical distancing.


Reminder. I try to respond to all who quote my posts. If you do not get a response from me, it may be that you've made it onto my 'Ignore' list.
It would be a left handed route around the EC instead of taking on what issues we have with the EC head on. The problem with left handed routes is that they always always always leave backdoors. Never seen it work any other way. Left handed solutions or routes are like extruded aluminum.....very strong in one axis and weak as shit in another. Once the weakness is exposed ......Good night Irene!
 

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One easy solution to all this is to abolish the secret vote and go to an all mail in ballot...
 

Craig234

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Thank you for taking time to respond. Many Americans do not realize how fragile a government actually is. I've noted from time to time that the US is in a metastable position between too little public interest/involvement and too much. History provides examples of what happens to democracies* when one political party makes a concerted effort to convert them to single-party states.
I don't think the key is 'two parties', when one of the parties like todays' Republican Party is tyrannical and corrupt, but rather protections from tyranny and the people having power including to resist and change government. There is nothing that makes the country better about today's Republican Party being strong. The best things have been done only because of one party (Democratic) rule.
 
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