did his think tank where they found documents get millions from china or no? If there is any possibility that it did, this needs to be investigated as possible espionage.No evidence of that
Then get an indictment.did his think tank where they found documents get millions from china or no? If there is any possibility that it did, this needs to be investigated as possible espionage.
https://nypost.com/2023/01/11/penn-biden-center-is-dark-money-nightmare-patronage-mill/
believe me , if I could I would.Then get an indictment.
This will be a successful as the benghazi investigation
It only matters what you can prove in courtbelieve me , if I could I would.
I just hope the SC is on the up and up and not part of the Bureaucracy's plan. If he is, you are right, this will go like Benghazi, and the Clinton classified document issue... not because that was not worthy of an indictment , mind you.
if you all are ok with the country being run this way, at the whim of said Bureaucracy, I await the day when it bites you in the ass with glee.
unfortunately, the country will be lost by that time.
Then stop making things up. Should be easy, right?I take the stance that erring on the side of investigating thoroughly and demanding proof are great concepts at the moment.
How do you all picture the ending to the story?
Pres. Trump has long been doing battle with the FBI, claiming it's a corrupt agency. Pres. Biden hasn't.When we punish people for things, we take into account their intent.
So yes, we will look at carelessness differently than we will look at intentional theft, obstruction of justice, intentional concealment, intentionally lying to the courts, ETC
I'm not saying the two cases aren't different. I'm saying the differences shouldn't be relevant to how the cases are handled, or the punishments handed down. See my argument above.They get that...no problem.
But these are two different cases..........very different. Don't get trapped in the "False Continuum Falacy"
In the small context of "found documents"...sure.........not much else the samePres. Trump has long been doing battle with the FBI, claiming it's a corrupt agency. Pres. Biden hasn't.
Pres. Trump's legal maneuvering and obstructive behaviour is consistent with that of a man doing battle with the FBI and DoJ. Furthermore, the current speculation is that the documents in question contain evidence of malfeasance at the FBI and DoJ--a claim that seems a lot less crazy in 2022/23 than it did in 2021, and a lot less crazy in 2021 than it did in 2020.
Hence, if "intent" is what matters, and not the actual commission of the crime (or the damage that has proceeded therefrom), throwing the book at Pres. Trump while giving Pres. Biden a pass stinks of corrupt agencies going after a former president for daring to challenge/expose their corruption.
Even if you don't think the DoJ or FBI are corrupt, hopefully you can see how the "intent is what matters" argument doesn't tread water. You're essentially ignoring the actual crime (document mishandling), assuming that Pres. Trump's claims about corruption must be false, and using the whole mess to bootstrap charges against a man who dared to claim the FBI and DoJ are corrupt. And the actual mishandling of documents? Nobody seems to care!
All I'm saying is that--from the perspective of an international observer with no skin in the game--if Pres. Biden gets different treatment in this case than Pres. Trump, the whole thing stinks to high heaven. No offense to your "intent is what matters" thesis.
I'm not saying the two cases aren't different. I'm saying the differences shouldn't be relevant to how the cases are handled, or the punishments handed down. See my argument above.
It's really not and you know this.The documents were found where they were. Biden isn't contesting those documents are what they have been reported to be.
Gross negligience is the standard.
This has no bearing on the facts of either case. Trump has been at odds with the FBI because of his own criminal and borderline criminal behavior and the fact that he has always surrounded himself with felons.Pres. Trump has long been doing battle with the FBI, claiming it's a corrupt agency. Pres. Biden hasn't.
Question..
How do you charge a sitting President? Mueller stated he couldn't under the memo or he would have.
Nothing really will happen to Biden because he is working with them to give the documents back. I say this baring some major scandal that comes out of this, which then could lead to impeachment.
Trump should be charged for lying and ignoring nara
Your error here is not taking into account the much more numerous and wider range of crimes committed by Trump. They weren't throwing the book at trump. They gave him 16 months to comply voluntarily. And that would have been the end of it. But that isn't what Trump did. You simply can't ignore that. Anybody who does is just not being honest.Hence, if "intent" is what matters, and not the actual commission of the crime (or the damage that has proceeded therefrom), throwing the book at Pres. Trump while giving Pres. Biden a pass stinks of corrupt agencies going after a former president for daring to challenge/expose their corruption.
Correct, unless some damning, new information comes to light. He will get the same treatment Trump got for 16 months, before Trump decided to start committing a slew of additional crimes.Biden will not be prosecuted for this
Facepalm...It was never going to be Mueller's decision to prosecute a sitting president. That was always going to be the decision of his supervisors.
Biden will not be prosecuted for this even though there are Americans who have been.
What's to stop trump from going after him after Biden is out?Correct, unless some damning, new information comes to light. He will get the same treatment Trump got for 16 months, before Trump decided to start committing a slew of additional crimes.
Let me be blunt: For all the reasons I list in #132, if Pres. Trump winds up facing charges and Pres. Biden doesn't, the DoJ and FBI will have succeeded in making themselves look like corrupt, politically-motivated agencies where no amount of Pres. Trump's bluster could.In the small context of "found documents"...sure.........not much else the same
He and his lawyers and a legion of other people are claiming (i) because of XYZ factors--including his status as former POTUS--he isn't legally obligated to comply with ABC demands, and (ii) the DoJ and FBI are corrupt, and thus refusing to turn over documents is both necessary and prudent.Your error here is not taking into account the much more numerous and wider range of crimes committed by Trump. They weren't throwing the book at trump. They gave him 16 months to comply voluntarily. And that would have been the end of it. But that isn't what Trump did. You simply can't ignore that. Anybody who does is just not being honest.
Let me be blunt: For all the reasons I list in #132, if Pres. Trump winds up facing charges and Pres. Biden doesn't, the DoJ and FBI will have succeeded in making themselves look like corrupt, politically-motivated agencies where no amount of Pres. Trump's bluster could.
Moreover, they'll have succeeded in convincing well over half your country that Pres. Trump isn't being prosecuted for document mishandling, obstruction, etc., etc., but because he dared to take on the corruption of the DoJ and FBI. They'll have made him a martyr.
I couldn't even speculate as to the extent that either narrative will prevail.The question though is will people who are not Republicans think that?
And I can tell you from experience that how enduring a scandal is can't reasonably be determined from how loud it is in the moment. Until you have the luxury of evaluating it in retrospect, every scandal is...I couldn't even speculate as to the extent that either narrative will prevail.
As a Canadian who neither strongly likes nor strongly dislikes Pres. Trump, I can tell you that this scandal with Pres. Biden, and the media reaction to it, has proven beyond all doubt that nobody in America actually gives a toot about either president having classified documents. The only thing you guys care about is how the mishandling of documents (and the legal fallout) can be leveraged to damage/eliminate an enemy politician.
And fine. American politics have always been cutthroat. Your two-party system almost necessitates it.
But whatever side winds up "winning", and going on TV crowing about how "justice has prevailed"--whether it's Republicans or Democrats--nobody is going to believe "justice" was actually what motivated anybody.
The problem with that is that it is based on a massive false equivalence.1. The special counsel is going to recommend to Garland that Biden be found negligent (not criminally) in mishandling classified materials. He has to, in order to come across as having any sort of credibility.
2. Garland is in a pickle here. He knows that Hillary walked after stating numerous times to the American public that her server held recipes, baby pics, and other general non classified government business. Now he is stuck with dealing with "Dopey Joe" on the same issue.
3. Garland is going to quietly work through the back channels to get both parties to come to a common good............. cough cough
4. Some months from now, there will be a TV appearance with Garland stating that there have been some improprieties taken in the past with the handling of classified documents and he will be forwarding recommendations.
5. Biden makes a TV appearance stating .........due to the unfortunate momentary lapses of judgement with myself and my predecessor, we are now rigorously making changes to the chain of custody for all classified information going forward.
6. Biden & Trump walk away from the issue scot free.
How do you all picture the ending to the story?
That is all conspiracy crap that you list in #132------------------for many years Trump has used the effective technique (not with me) of "Deny, Distract, & Discredit"..............nothing has changed. Stop being a sucker enough to let trump fool you..................pleaseLet me be blunt: For all the reasons I list in #132, if Pres. Trump winds up facing charges and Pres. Biden doesn't, the DoJ and FBI will have succeeded in making themselves look like corrupt, politically-motivated agencies where no amount of Pres. Trump's bluster could.
Moreover, they'll have succeeded in convincing well over half your country that Pres. Trump isn't being prosecuted for document mishandling, obstruction, etc., etc., but because he dared to take on the corruption of the DoJ and FBI. They'll have made him a martyr.
I think he'll make it through intact too. And likewise with Pres. Trump.There are exceptions, of course. Clinton's emails was an example of a fake scandal that endured. However, what I can see is that Biden is approaching his own scandal based on the lessons from Clinton's experiences, and as a result I think he'll push through this intact.
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