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Here's a thought concerned a raped woman...

trouble13

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OK what rights do those states grant?
They are shrinking the time window in which a woman may legally kill her mates offspring with impunity. The fetus or whatever you want to call it is under the protection of the states protection once the heartbeat begins.
 

AGENT J

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I never claimed it was not. They are however expanding the rights of the fetus that some are claiming are nonexistent
so in reality they are nonexistent and the fetus still has no rights.

Unless yo can list those bills/laws granting the fetus rights and what those rights are it has none
 

prometeus

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They are shrinking the time window in which a woman may legally kill her mates offspring with impunity. The fetus or whatever you want to call it is under the protection of the states protection once the heartbeat begins.
So no rights only bull crap assertions.
 

trouble13

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so in reality they are nonexistent and the fetus still has no rights.

Unless yo can list those bills/laws granting the fetus rights and what those rights are it has none
Can't give you specific ordinances but if you harm a fetus you are charged with harming the fetus not harming the woman. That distinction illustrates that the state is protecting the interests of the fetus. The fetus, according to the state, has a right to live.
 

prometeus

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Do you deny that they have shortened the window the woman has to select to kill the mans baby?
You ****ing lied about fetal rights and now that you got caught with that moronic lie are changing the topic.
I guess lacking integrity is part of your rights.
 

trouble13

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You ****ing lied about fetal rights and now that you got caught with that moronic lie are changing the topic.
I guess lacking integrity is part of your rights.
I have not lied. Calling facts you don't like lies only diminishes your credibility.
 

prometeus

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I have not lied. Calling facts you don't like lies only diminishes your credibility.
Of course you lied. You claimed fetuses have rights and can not provide anything to support it. That is lying and now are further lying because I have not dismissed anything.
 

AGENT J

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Can't give you specific ordinances but if you harm a fetus you are charged with harming the fetus not harming the woman. That distinction illustrates that the state is protecting the interests of the fetus. The fetus, according to the state, has a right to live.
So you cant provide proof of the fetus having any factual rights.
From my stand point i have not read any in those state laws, seen any on legit news sources or heard a word of this
Let us know when you can, until then the reality the fetus has now actual rights
 

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Can't give you specific ordinances but if you harm a fetus you are charged with harming the fetus not harming the woman. That distinction illustrates that the state is protecting the interests of the fetus. The fetus, according to the state, has a right to live.
The state is not protecting the interests of the fetus. The state is protecting its own interest in a potential citizen. This in no way means that the state has declared a fetus has a right to live.
 

vegas giants

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They are shrinking the time window in which a woman may legally kill her mates offspring with impunity. The fetus or whatever you want to call it is under the protection of the states protection once the heartbeat begins.
In one out of 50 states and even that will unlikely last
 

PeacefulWarrior

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Can't give you specific ordinances but if you harm a fetus you are charged with harming the fetus not harming the woman. That distinction illustrates that the state is protecting the interests of the fetus. The fetus, according to the state, has a right to live.

OK, well just dont get tightfisted then when the "state" gets to pay for the needs of that unwanted child, from womb til adulthood.
The wealthier women will just go to a neighboring state or be able to pay extra for an "expedited" abortion or something, while the poor women with no resources will then give birth to an unwanted child.

Another fatherless kid running around, no proper upbringing, many go to gangs/etc/crime, then the "state" can pay for their incarceration later on after they hit adulthood.

The government makes an EXTREMELY poor substitute for a father Trouble. So while you may see yourself as some sort of crusader thats "saving the babies", I wonder if you have really thought all of these issues through very carefully. make sure you also adopt a couple of unwanted children, since you care about them so much?
OK, great. I'm sure you'll do that, a guy of your strong virtues. Good luck.(y)
 

trouble13

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So you cant provide proof of the fetus having any factual rights.
From my stand point i have not read any in those state laws, seen any on legit news sources or heard a word of this
Let us know when you can, until then the reality the fetus has now actual rights
How do you explain laws that protect the fetus if the fetus has no rights?
 

prometeus

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How do you explain laws that protect the fetus if the fetus has no rights?
The same way as laws protecting certain animal species. You can protect anything as long as you pass a law and it has nothing to do with rights.
 

trouble13

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The state is not protecting the interests of the fetus. The state is protecting its own interest in a potential citizen. This in no way means that the state has declared a fetus has a right to live.
If it jas no right solve how can a state prosecute someone for it's premature termination. What right does that fall under?
 

Bodi

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It never set right to me that, morally, a woman must carry a rapist's baby to avoid the act of murder.

at the same time, and as many on the right wing of the pro-life argument would say, "the baby did nothing wrong", of which I must concede is a fair point.

an idea i had is that, in the case of rape, a woman can be absolved of all responsibility for an abortion, as she given no consent to be pregnant in any case.

However, it is still murder, and it is a murder for which the rapist is guilty of.

If someone rapes, he takes the risk that a woman may choose to abort his baby, and therefore, he bears the guilty of that action in full.

Where I would like to see the abortion debate go is to argue WHAT, exactly, should be done to a rapist in such a situation? To me, it's not enough to charge him with rape, for which he faces life in prison, he should also face the charge of murder/manslaughter, for setting the chain of events in motion.

It is my opinion that the rapist should be held, not only morally liable, but legally liable as well, for anything and everything that happens between his victim and his potential baby.
This is a very strange post...
 

trouble13

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OK, well just dont get tightfisted then when the "state" gets to pay for the needs of that unwanted child, from womb til adulthood.
The wealthier women will just go to a neighboring state or be able to pay extra for an "expedited" abortion or something, while the poor women with no resources will then give birth to an unwanted child.

Another fatherless kid running around, no proper upbringing, many go to gangs/etc/crime, then the "state" can pay for their incarceration later on after they hit adulthood.

The government makes an EXTREMELY poor substitute for a father Trouble. So while you may see yourself as some sort of crusader thats "saving the babies", I wonder if you have really thought all of these issues through very carefully. make sure you also adopt a couple of unwanted children, since you care about them so much?
OK, great. I'm sure you'll do that, a guy of your strong virtues. Good luck.(y)
I'm not a crusader. I really don't care much what the state decides.
 

prometeus

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It's an example of the law protecting the rights of a fetus. It was claimed they don't have rights when they plainly do.
No, they plainly do not. Moreover this has been explained to you already, why then do you keep repeating the lie?
 

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If it jas no right solve how can a state prosecute someone for it's premature termination. What right does that fall under?
The state cannot prosecute any woman for any abortion. Abortion is legal in the US. However, the state has a right to pass laws protecting its interest in the fetus after it becomes viable. For example: the state can require that a doctor examine the mother and certify that an abortion is or is not necessary. If the abortion is not necessary and the woman goes to an illegal abortionist the abortionist is guilty defying state law. The state can punish the abortionist. They cannot punish the woman.
If the woman goes to another state and gets an abortion that is legal in that state, the authorities in the woman's home state cannot punish the out of state abortion provider just because abortion after viability is illegal in the woman's home state.
 

AGENT J

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How do you explain laws that protect the fetus if the fetus has no rights?
easy that's just your false interpretation
theres laws out there that dont allow you to kick in my front door, that doesn't mean my front door legal rights

how do you explain why you cant list any laws that do what you claim and what the rights of a fetus are?
 

trouble13

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easy that's just your false interpretation
theres laws out there that dont allow you to kick in my front door, that doesn't mean my front door legal rights

how do you explain why you cant list any laws that do what you claim and what the rights of a fetus are?
I don't know that I can't list the laws your requesting. I'm too lazy to do the footwork.

I know laws exist that protects the rights of the fetus. I just don't know the specific statues.

For instance of you shoot a pregnant woman and the fetus dies, you are charged with that homicide. It is it's own separate charge. The law views that fetus as having a right to live that was interrupted. How can you see it any other way?
 
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