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Here's a flat tax for you.....

rabbitcaebannog said:
Um, no there is not equality in the economy that is why you need it in the tax system.
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Good evening, rabbitcaebannog. :2wave:

Do you really believe there is equality in the tax system as it is currently set up? Everyone consumes, but nearly half pay no income tax...and some even receive unearned money back... yet they benefit the same as those paying taxes in roads, police, schooling, etc. I understand that with little earned income, there would be no tax due, but someone is paying taxes that provide for the food stamps, rent assistance, meals for children at school, etc. Is there no means by which those recipients could contribute to the community in some way in repayment, such as Roosevelt's alphabet programs did during the Great Depression? What is going to happen when there are not enough taxpayers paying enough money to keep it going, but the cart carrying the others keeps getting fuller and fuller all the time? :eek:
 
polgara said:
Good evening, rabbitcaebannog. :2wave:

Do you really believe there is equality in the tax system as it is currently set up? Everyone consumes, but nearly half pay no income tax...and some even receive unearned money back... yet they benefit the same as those paying taxes in roads, police, schooling, etc. I understand that with little earned income, there would be no tax due, but someone is paying taxes that provide for the food stamps, rent assistance, meals for children at school, etc. Is there no means by which those recipients could contribute to the community in some way in repayment, such as Roosevelt's alphabet programs did during the Great Depression? What is going to happen when there are not enough taxpayers paying enough money to keep it going, but the cart carrying the others keeps getting fuller and fuller all the time? :eek:
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Those that make little, benefit little from our roads, police, schooling etc. Those who make a great deal of money benefit from those things much more. I mean really, just how much does a worker making $20k/yr benefit from his schooling? Apparently not much.
 
polgara said:
Good evening, rabbitcaebannog. :2wave:

Do you really believe there is equality in the tax system as it is currently set up? Everyone consumes, but nearly half pay no income tax...and some even receive unearned money back... yet they benefit the same as those paying taxes in roads, police, schooling, etc. I understand that with little earned income, there would be no tax due, but someone is paying taxes that provide for the food stamps, rent assistance, meals for children at school, etc. Is there no means by which those recipients could contribute to the community in some way in repayment, such as Roosevelt's alphabet programs did during the Great Depression? What is going to happen when there are not enough taxpayers paying enough money to keep it going, but the cart carrying the others keeps getting fuller and fuller all the time? :eek:
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Hi polgara,

Income tax and consumption tax are different. Those who are poor and pay nothing toward income tax do pay in regressive taxes. Many will receive a rebate because of those regressive taxes (to try and make up for them). Even flat taxes address this (or nearly everyone I've read about). I've no problem with this though. I've got a problem with middle income folks having to pay much more in taxes than wealthy people. No equity in such a system and I cannot for the life of me justify such a system.
 
imagep said:
Those that make little, benefit little from our roads, police, schooling etc. Those who make a great deal of money benefit from those things much more. I mean really, just how much does a worker making $20k/yr benefit from his schooling? Apparently not much.
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Greetings, imagep! :2wave:

The roads are there for all to use, and I assume the police respond to all calls, no matter which neighborhood is involved. Schooling? I don't know. With the lack of good paying jobs, there are many college grads who are going to have problems paying off their student loans, but I was referring to the large segment of our population who either drop out of school, or have no training or skills that are wanted or needed by employers. What do we do with them? Can the taxpayers support them indefinitely? :shrug:
 
rabbitcaebannog said:
Hi polgara,

Income tax and consumption tax are different. Those who are poor and pay nothing toward income tax do pay in regressive taxes. Many will receive a rebate because of those regressive taxes (to try and make up for them). Even flat taxes address this (or nearly everyone I've read about). I've no problem with this though. I've got a problem with middle income folks having to pay much more in taxes than wealthy people. No equity in such a system and I cannot for the life of me justify such a system.
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:agree: Why has nothing been done...except for a lot of jawboning...on the tax problem? An overhaul is overdue, IMO! :doh: :twocents:
 
polgara said:
:agree: Why has nothing been done...except for a lot of jawboning...on the tax problem? An overhaul is overdue, IMO! :doh: :twocents:
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I agree and neither political party is willing to change this mostly due to whose pulling the strings in both parties.
 
head of joaquin said:
Yep, the whole purpose of the flat tax is to lower taxes on the rich, increase them on working people, and reduce benefits to poor kids.

That's the GOP agenda in a nutshell.
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your analysis and rant fails because it assumes that the rich ought to pay more than what they use and others should pay less
 
imagep said:
Then every one should pay an equal dollar amount of taxes.

What you are doing is redefining "equal".

In reality, everyone can't pay an equal amount, thus we base their burden on income. Tax policy can't be about either fair or equal, so it has to be about practicality and choosing the options that are the least harmful to our economy.
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No all I'm saying is that we have one tax bracket.
 
imagep said:
Under a progressive tax system, everyone has the equal opportunity to make a little or a lot of money, and equal opportunity to pay a little or a lot in taxes.
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Except coupled with our welfare system you have redistribution of wealth going on.
 
rabbitcaebannog said:
Gas tax, sales tax and WI flat tax. Also, not every flat tax proposal taxes income from capital gains and/or dividends. Just a fact.
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I'll give you sales tax. Anyone starts whining about Pigouvian or sin taxes, and I'm out of here. I can't listen to that crap.
 
rabbitcaebannog said:
Tax capital gains at the same rate as wages.
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When capital gains are subjected to the same level of risk as normal wages, then they can be taxed at the same level.

Would you rather bet a dollar and get 2 back from guessing which of my closed hands has the quarter, or do you want to bet a buck and win 2 by picking which number I'm thinking of between 1 and 100.
 
head of joaquin said:
Yep, the whole purpose of the flat tax is to lower taxes on the rich, increase them on working people, and reduce benefits to poor kids.

That's the GOP agenda in a nutshell.
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Funny thing is that when the pinko left says that "the rich should pay their fair share", they don't actually mean FAIR share. They mean "more than everyone else as a percentage of income". Flat tax actually would make the rich pay their fair share and the idea of that makes lefties so mad they just want to peel the skin off their ears as they think about it.
 
How about simplifying the tax law for a start. Stop giving corporations so many outs.

I would love to see a flat tax on new goods. Anything that is recycled should not be taxed as it has been taxed before. Used cars should not be taxed. So on and so forth.
 
Gipper said:
When capital gains are subjected to the same level of risk as normal wages, then they can be taxed at the same level.

Would you rather bet a dollar and get 2 back from guessing which of my closed hands has the quarter, or do you want to bet a buck and win 2 by picking which number I'm thinking of between 1 and 100.
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Income from capital gains is still income and should be taxed as thus. Why is the "risk" a factor? Should betting on horses be tax free? Lotto ticket winnings?
 
Deuce said:
Income from capital gains is still income and should be taxed as thus. Why is the "risk" a factor? Should betting on horses be tax free? Lotto ticket winnings?
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Yes and yes.

If you don't view risk as a factor, then explaining it to you would do no good.
 
Deuce said:
Income from capital gains is still income and should be taxed as thus. Why is the "risk" a factor? Should betting on horses be tax free? Lotto ticket winnings?
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There are a number of reasons why capital gains should be taxed as something other than income but the two most important are that capital gains taxes at a lower rate than income helps offset the fact that long term capital gains are eaten away by inflation. Without complicating the tax code by factoring inflation into capital gains "profits", the lower rate is the relief for that inequity. Another important reason is that it encourages people to invest LONG TERM and helps capitalize our economy. Without long term equities investments, economic growth would be hard to achieve - or should I say harder than it already is. It's only a "capital gain" if it's held for longer than a year. Short term investments of less than a year are taxed at normal income rates.
 
Gipper said:
When capital gains are subjected to the same level of risk as normal wages, then they can be taxed at the same level.

Would you rather bet a dollar and get 2 back from guessing which of my closed hands has the quarter, or do you want to bet a buck and win 2 by picking which number I'm thinking of between 1 and 100.
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Only the rationale behind policy makers pushing to lower investment taxes was to trickle down the wealth. Policy makers know taxing investment at a lower rate creates more wealth but it is being concentrated in fewer and fewer hands while the rest of the population is footing the bill. No wealth is being "trickled" down. Time to change it!
 
YoungConserv said:
Right but our system demands equality under the law something a progressive tax code is in clear violation of.
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Income tax rates are based on what the individual can afford to pay. What could be more sensible than that?
 
rabbitcaebannog said:
Only the rationale behind policy makers pushing to lower investment taxes was to trickle down the wealth. Policy makers know taxing investment at a lower rate creates more wealth but it is being concentrated in fewer and fewer hands while the rest of the population is footing the bill. No wealth is being "trickled" down. Time to change it!
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Pop quiz - Most people who benefit from capital gains tax are:

a) The working poor.
b) The middle class.
c) The upper-middle class.
d) The rich/top 5%.

I await your answer.
 
YoungConserv said:
So you would be ok if poor people and rich people where under separate parking law in other aspects of life as well then right?
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You realize A rich person (the top 1%) or conglomeration corporation uses far more of taxpayer supported resources and infrastructure that an average Joe living in rural America. If you really want to be fair, then that Joe guy should be paying very little taxes and the tax system should be top down approach, the richer you are the more you pay, Or call it pay as you go system.

Now if you look at the legislators in Wisconsin. They mostly are all (the definitely the ones that surround Scott Walker) his millionaires friends corporate cronies. The legislation they are enacting is skewed for their benefits. A collusion at state level to main the status quo and keep the Corporate Welfare live and kicking. A nice scam...a totalitarian government that feeds its own and friends pocket at the expense of middle Class.

Diving Mullah
 
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