Here is how we know the democratic party is cheating americans:**[W:223]**

[Glen Contrarian]

Re: Here is how we know the democratic party is cheating americans:

It would have been president McCain, but in any regard does anyone really think Bernie supporters are going to buy into Trump? I would say about 50% will swing back to Hillary, 20% go Trump and the rest sit on their hands as they've always done.

Doggone it - got Romney and McCain mixed up - thanks for the reminder. And you're quite right with the rest.

 

[sKiTzo]

Re: Here is how we know the democratic party is cheating americans:

Too bad for you ultra-lefties that you don't have someone as capable as Trump on your side to effectively combat your Democratic Elites...as Trump did to the Republican Elites.

But then, you can take consolation that Sanders would get solidly trounced by Trump anyway if he became the Democratic nominee. Face it...there are just too many people in the US who want nothing to do with the high-taxing, excessive-spending government control that Sanders is calling for.

You can't be so sure. It really all depends on the extent of the Hillary lie. How many votes has she REALLY gotten? If the dem "club" leadership (the ones who count and report the results) were not such corrupt scandalous pigs, how many landslides did Bernie truly win? We'll never know. If the crowd rally attendances are indicator, I'd say many across the board. If the Trump vs. Sanders polls are any indicator, you may want to choose your words more appropriately. I'm with Bernie 100% but if Hillary is the nominee, I'm going with Donald without question. I don't care about "parties" and I think I speak for all of Bernie's disciples.

Oh

 

[faithful_servant]

Re: Here is how we know the democratic party is cheating americans:

Ease up on the Cool Aid.

It's Kool-Aid. And that comment is an insult to every Kool-Aid drinking nut job in the country. His comment about Sander's voters ALL voting for Trump puts him way outside of nutty and well into the "Holy ****, Batman, that guy really thinks that he's King Tut" realm.

 

[Ikari]

Re: Here is how we know the democratic party is cheating americans:

That may be your opinion of both...but those are your only two choices. You are voting for the lesser of two evils. Is your disgust with Hillary so great that you'd rather see a president Trump than vote for her? Because that's what will happen if you refuse to do so.

You don't have to like your choice - you have only to make your choice.

Voting third party. There is always a choice. Every election cycle y'all tell me have to choose between the lesser of two evils. I'm tired of having to vote for evil.

I made my choice...no more evil. I'm voting third party.

 

[Ikari]

Re: Here is how we know the democratic party is cheating americans:

I don't know why there were ever any Dem. primaries this year... They should have just all gathered around Hillary, threw her up on their shoulders and done a "Yay Hillary!!" national tour and avoided all the drama. :mrgreen:

that's essentially what they did.

 

[Fearandloathing]

Re: Here is how we know the democratic party is cheating americans:

It's Kool-Aid. And that comment is an insult to every Kool-Aid drinking nut job in the country. His comment about Sander's voters ALL voting for Trump puts him way outside of nutty and well into the "Holy ****, Batman, that guy really thinks that he's King Tut" realm.

MY apologies to Kool-Aid drinking nut job

 

[TheGoverness]

Re: Here is how we know the democratic party is cheating americans:

So you would rather see a president Trump than to vote for Hillary.

Noted.

I don't care which of them wins the presidency. They are both equally terrible candidates in my eyes.

 

[Fearandloathing]

Re: Here is how we know the democratic party is cheating americans:

You can't be so sure. It really all depends on the extent of the Hillary lie. How many votes has she REALLY gotten? If the dem "club" leadership (the ones who count and report the results) were not such corrupt scandalous pigs, how many landslides did Bernie truly win? We'll never know. If the crowd rally attendances are indicator, I'd say many across the board. If the Trump vs. Sanders polls are any indicator, you may want to choose your words more appropriately. I'm with Bernie 100% but if Hillary is the nominee, I'm going with Donald without question. I don't care about "parties" and I think I speak for all of Bernie's disciples.

Oh

They aren't. Crowd rallies can be easily manipulated to appear greater and more ardent than the polls later indicate. It is an inexpensive way to run a leadership and relies heavily on media coverage. Putting a lie to Hillary favoritism in the media, the exposure has carried him much further than he would normally go. I believe much of the Bernie vote and coverage is because he's not Hillary.

From what I have seen hers is a tired campaign, she sounds tired, the cheers for her more muted. It's like a Geritol ad with the lady in waiting re-cycles speeches from the 2008 campaign. She has no central theme, her campaign consists of 1) she's a woman and "it's about time", 2) she travels a lot, and 3) she's very much in favor of gun control.

Exciting stuff

 

[Redress]

Re: Here is how we know the democratic party is cheating americans:

It's called political suicide. I'm pretty sure that in the general election, votes can't be manipulated, suppressed, and straight-up misreported so easily. So, what we'll have (because I and and EVERY Bernie supporter WILL vote Trump) is Trump just ANNIHILATING Hillary. Sad because Bernie beats Trump in the polls. Hillary should drop out and let Bernie do his job.

That is just ****ing silly. Polling shows you are wrong. Here is just one example: How Clinton vs. Trump Could Play Out | RealClearPolitics

Of the roughly 1,000 Democrats in our April survey, 39 percent preferred Sanders to be the nominee and, of these, 13 percent said they would vote for Trump, with another 16 percent saying they’d vote for another candidate—or would not vote. Thus, some 29 percent of Sanders’ voters say they won’t support Hillary Clinton,

Yup, turns out many Sanders supporters already say they will support Clinton, and only 13 % say they will support Trump. This is what happens when you pull random facts out of your ass, you get dirty and prove nothing.

How do we know this to be the truth? Observe and do the math...

Pictures are not math, and they also are easy to carefully select. Election winners are determined at the polling places. Sanders did not get as many votes as Clinton, he lost. Thank you for playing, we enjoyed beating you.

 

[Redress]

Re: Here is how we know the democratic party is cheating americans:

He is saying that parties need to be more transparent with the process they use to select candidates. Standardization never hurt anyone either.

They really are fairly transparent to any one who spends the time looking into the process. And why standardize? Let the states decide how they want to handle the allocation of their delegates.

 

[Surrealistik]

Re: Here is how we know the democratic party is cheating americans:

It would have been president McCain, but in any regard does anyone really think Bernie supporters are going to buy into Trump? I would say about 50% will swing back to Hillary, 20% go Trump and the rest sit on their hands as they've always done.

Hopefully (when the dust has settled) those disenfranchised will be enough to keep her out of office and teach the DNC a valuable lesson as to what happens when you labour to skew the primaries in favour of a particular candidate such that they do not reiterate this unjust behaviour in the future.

 

[Redress]

Re: Here is how we know the democratic party is cheating americans:

You can't be so sure. It really all depends on the extent of the Hillary lie. How many votes has she REALLY gotten? If the dem "club" leadership (the ones who count and report the results) were not such corrupt scandalous pigs, how many landslides did Bernie truly win? We'll never know. If the crowd rally attendances are indicator, I'd say many across the board. If the Trump vs. Sanders polls are any indicator, you may want to choose your words more appropriately. I'm with Bernie 100% but if Hillary is the nominee, I'm going with Donald without question. I don't care about "parties" and I think I speak for all of Bernie's disciples.

Oh

The democrats owe Sanders nothing. He should be grateful we let him use our party resources for his power grab. I strongly hope that you have to actually be a democrat for a few years before you can run as one and use party resources in the future. And to answer your question, Clinton has REALLY gotten 12,989,134 votes, or about 3 million more than Sanders. Hint: that is a blowout.

 

[Redress]

Re: Here is how we know the democratic party is cheating americans:

that's essentially what they did.

Well, no. If they had done that, we would not have Sanders making a mess of our party.

 

[Ikari]

Re: Here is how we know the democratic party is cheating americans:

I don't care which of them wins the presidency. They are both equally terrible candidates in my eyes.

I think this is something the “Vote for Evil” folk won’t understand. Every election cycle is the same thing. You only have two choices; you must choose the lesser of two evils. I mean, OK, if it’s a one-off, maybe we could endure an evil for 4 years. But it’s not a one-off, it’s SOP. So now it’s different. The lesser of two evils is still evil, and if you vote for evil election after election, you will end up losing the Republic.



So for the “Vote for Evil” folk, one main candidate is so much worse than the other that we must hold our nose and vote for them. But other folk, and this election cycle I think we will see far more than others, say “they’re pretty much the same thing, we’re screwed either way, why do I have to hold my nose”?



And that’s what it comes down to. Hillary is going to screw us, Trump is going to screw us, either way we’re screwed. “But wouldn’t you prefer they use lube”? That’s essentially the mantra of the “Vote for Evil” crowd. No, I wouldn’t. I’d prefer to not be screwed in the first place. So third party it is. “But you’re throwing your vote away”. I’d be throwing my vote away by voting for evil. I’d be throwing my vote away by supporting a candidate that doesn’t reflect my political ideology and platform.



The truth is Hillary is **** and Trump is ****. It doesn’t matter which one smells slightly better, in the end it’s still ****. I’m tired of it. So I’ll “throw my vote away” and support a candidate I won’t be ashamed of.

 

[Fearandloathing]

Re: Here is how we know the democratic party is cheating americans:

Hopefully (when the dust has settled) those disenfranchised will be enough to keep her out of office and teach the DNC a valuable lesson as to what happens when you labour to skew the primaries in favour of a particular candidate such that they do not reiterate this unjust behaviour in the future.

The only way to get the kind of reforms which are needed to correct this kind of corruption is if people quit bitching and got involved. Join the Democratic party and get some friends to go along...then you and your friends become a bloc and now you have mojo.

It's called the grass roots. But history shows that the bloc that makes the most noise gets way more than it should. consider a left leaning Tea Party....then take names and kick ass

 

[Skeptic Bob]

Re: Here is how we know the democratic party is cheating americans:

Both Hillary and Trump are bottom of the barrel, horrible for the Republic candidates.

I would imagine Sanders would endorse Hillary. End of the day he's a Democrat, and it's all about the party. But there is no more corporate a candidate than Hillary, staunch Sanders supporters may not follow his endorsement of Clinton because they don't want status quo.

It's time to vote ideology, not party.

Yeah, yeah. If you don't vote for the Democrat you are by default voting for the Republican. If you don't vote for the Republican you are by default vetoing for the Democrat. Around and around we go. Ignore your conscience and toe the line.

What is that they say about doing the same thing again and again and expecting different results?

 

[Glen Contrarian]

Re: Here is how we know the democratic party is cheating americans:

I don't care which of them wins the presidency. They are both equally terrible candidates in my eyes.

"Equally terrible"? Sorry, but it's obvious that you haven't really paid attention. Hillary, as tone-deaf a politician as she sometimes is - and she's not the most honest of politicians by any stretch - does understand and is very adept at diplomacy, which is one of the most important jobs - if not the most important job - of any president. Unlike Trump - or Johnson, for that matter - she has actually worked towards equal rights for women, LGBT's, and the preservation of equal rights for minorities. She's pushed for more worker protections, and for hikes in the minimum wage.

You might not like her, but I suggest you peruse ontheissues.org to see what she stands for, and what she's done. The same site gives the platforms for Trump, Stein, and Johnson. It's a good, useful site. I strongly recommend it.

 

[Glen Contrarian]

Re: Here is how we know the democratic party is cheating americans:

Voting third party. There is always a choice. Every election cycle y'all tell me have to choose between the lesser of two evils. I'm tired of having to vote for evil.

I made my choice...no more evil. I'm voting third party.

I suggest you go ask those who voted for Ralph Nader in 2000 if - given the opportunity - they'd still have voted for Nader, when if they'd voted for Gore instead, Gore would have won.

 

[Kobie]

Re: Here is how we know the democratic party is cheating americans:

We've been through this, repeatedly. Rally attendance is not a barometer of electoral success. Votes are.

 

[kanabco]

Re: Here is how we know the democratic party is cheating americans:

(because I and and EVERY Bernie supporter WILL vote Trump)

Oh Brother. This proves there is an alternate universe.

 

[sKiTzo]

Re: Here is how we know the democratic party is cheating americans:

Oh look!! Someone cherry-picked some images to make their point and think that the people here at DP are dumb enough to fall for that kind of dishonest tactic. Then you make what is truly one of the dumbest things I've read in a long time: "because I and and EVERY Bernie supporter WILL vote Trump". Really?? I'll bet that less than 1% of Sanders supporters will vote for Trump rather than Hillary....

Please find 1 pic of a large hillary crowd....no cherry picking - just fact.

 

[Ikari]

Re: Here is how we know the democratic party is cheating americans:

I suggest you go ask those who voted for Ralph Nader in 2000 if - given the opportunity - they'd still have voted for Nader, when if they'd voted for Gore instead, Gore would have won.

Guess the DNC should have put up someone better than Gore. Vote Evil if that makes you happy, but I won't comply.

 

[Abbazorkzog]

Re: Here is how we know the democratic party is cheating americans:

Yeah, yeah. If you don't vote for the Democrat you are by default voting for the Republican. If you don't vote for the Republican you are by default vetoing for the Democrat. Around and around we go. Ignore your conscience and toe the line.

What is that they say about doing the same thing again and again and expecting different results?

This. What is said here in this quote is the best way to say why I have the beliefs about this Election that I do.

 

[TheGoverness]

Re: Here is how we know the democratic party is cheating americans:

"Equally terrible"? Sorry, but it's obvious that you haven't really paid attention.

Excuse me? I actually have been paying quite a lot of attention to this election cycle, more so than any other election season in my life so far.

Hillary, as tone-deaf a politician as she sometimes is - and she's not the most honest of politicians by any stretch - does understand and is very adept at diplomacy, which is one of the most important jobs - if not the most important job - of any president.

None of that dissuades from the fact that Hillary Clinton is completely bought and sold by her corporate donors, is a part of the establishment, and has absolutely zero semblance of honesty and integrity. Just because Hillary's "diplomatic", is not a good enough reason for me to cast my vote for her.

Unlike Trump - or Johnson, for that matter - she has actually worked towards equal rights for women, LGBT's, and the preservation of equal rights for minorities. She's pushed for more worker protections, and for hikes in the minimum wage.

You do realise that Hillary's flip-flopped on almost every single one of these issues before, right?

For example, back in 2002-3, there was a town hall conference (I believe it was in NYC) where she clearly stated that she was against gay marriage, and thought that marriage was a "sacred bond between a man and a woman". But today, she tries to pretend like she never actually said that, and that she's always advocated for LGBT+ rights and that she has a "strong record". Oh, please.

You might not like her, but I suggest you peruse ontheissues.org to see what she stands for, and what she's done.

I have absolutely no idea what Hillary Clinton actually stands for since she flip-flops on what she advocates for constantly. So I can't believe with 100% certainty that she actually believes in the things she says she stands for.

And BTW, I already know what Hillary has accomplished throughout her political career.

 

[Mycroft]

Re: Here is how we know the democratic party is cheating americans:

Is that why democrats have won 5 out of the last 6 popular votes in presidential election years? You are the one living in the dream world her pal. I suggest you make sure all your guns are unloaded and locked safely away on election night. I don't want anything bad to happen to you.

Popular votes are pretty much inconsequential...you should know that, so you bringing that up isn't only irrelevant...it's pathetic. But hey...at least you succeeded in trotting out your stereotypical talking points instead of actually addressing my point.