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Here’s Why You Should Be Skeptical Of Texas’ Allegations Of Voter Fraud

JacksinPA

JacksinPA

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https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/texas-voter-fraud-allegations_us_5c4f8708e4b00906b26c62ac

When Lisa Wise, the top election official in El Paso County, Texas, got a list of suspected noncitizens on her voter rolls, one name quickly stood out. It was the name of someone in her office who went to get a state ID a few years ago and recently became a naturalized U.S. citizen.

The data point underscores why many are skeptical about claims from Texas’ Secretary of State David Whitley (R) and Attorney General Ken Paxton (R) that 95,000 noncitizens may be on the voting rolls and that 58,000 of them voted in at least one election since 1996. Election officials, lawyers and experts said that number is likely inflated because of people who applied for driver’s licenses when they were legal permanent residents and later became naturalized.
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Figures lie & liars figure.
 
JacksinPA said:
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/texas-voter-fraud-allegations_us_5c4f8708e4b00906b26c62ac

When Lisa Wise, the top election official in El Paso County, Texas, got a list of suspected noncitizens on her voter rolls, one name quickly stood out. It was the name of someone in her office who went to get a state ID a few years ago and recently became a naturalized U.S. citizen.

The data point underscores why many are skeptical about claims from Texas’ Secretary of State David Whitley (R) and Attorney General Ken Paxton (R) that 95,000 noncitizens may be on the voting rolls and that 58,000 of them voted in at least one election since 1996. Election officials, lawyers and experts said that number is likely inflated because of people who applied for driver’s licenses when they were legal permanent residents and later became naturalized.
========================================
Figures lie & liars figure.
Click to expand...
I love HufPo - so vapid, so partisan. :roll:
 
Bullseye said:
I love HufPo - so vapid, so partisan. :roll:
Click to expand...

Not a shred of evidence so far for the attorney general's claim.

They're priming the pump to start purging rolls. They can see the state starting to turn purple and it scares them. As usual rather than modify policies to appeal to a wider base of voters, the GOP would rather just get rid of people who don't vote for them.
 
JacksinPA said:
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/texas-voter-fraud-allegations_us_5c4f8708e4b00906b26c62ac

When Lisa Wise, the top election official in El Paso County, Texas, got a list of suspected noncitizens on her voter rolls, one name quickly stood out. It was the name of someone in her office who went to get a state ID a few years ago and recently became a naturalized U.S. citizen.

The data point underscores why many are skeptical about claims from Texas’ Secretary of State David Whitley (R) and Attorney General Ken Paxton (R) that 95,000 noncitizens may be on the voting rolls and that 58,000 of them voted in at least one election since 1996. Election officials, lawyers and experts said that number is likely inflated because of people who applied for driver’s licenses when they were legal permanent residents and later became naturalized.
========================================
Figures lie & liars figure.
Click to expand...


Yep.

That already tiny fraction of possibly fraudulent votes will get even smaller when more cases such as this come forward to explain it.
 
Bullseye said:
I love HufPo - so vapid, so partisan. :roll:
Click to expand...

It is not partisan to point out that errors could be made for a reason as simple as someone's immigration status was not updated in a database recently enough. Does that mean that all of them are unfounded of course not but it definitely undermines most of the right-wing medias claims they found a smoking gun of massive voter fraud.
 
uptower said:
Not a shred of evidence so far for the attorney general's claim.

They're priming the pump to start purging rolls. They can see the state starting to turn purple and it scares them. As usual rather than modify policies to appeal to a wider base of voters, the GOP would rather just get rid of people who don't vote for them.
Click to expand...

If voters are legal and voting they will not get purged. It's so funny that democrats will insist that no illegal voting occurs and then when it is shown there is they just deny reality and re-assert no illegal voting occurs.
 
Carjosse said:
It is not partisan to point out that errors could be made for a reason as simple as someone's immigration status was not updated in a database recently enough. Does that mean that all of them are unfounded of course not but it definitely undermines most of the right-wing medias claims they found a smoking gun of massive voter fraud.
Click to expand...

The problem is, almost 100,000 non citizens are on voting rolls and you want to argue a non-quantifiable number actually are legal voters and use an anecdote to back it up.
Because almost 100,000 illegal voters in one state means democrat state officials who believe they benefit from illegal voters won't be able to deny there's illegal voting.

It is so stupid to insist that when crimes of fraud of all times occur tens of millions of times every year that only like 12 or 13 or whatever impossibly small number of fraudulent votes democrats claim there is, people will lie on a form to vote.
 
JacksinPA said:
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/texas-voter-fraud-allegations_us_5c4f8708e4b00906b26c62ac

When Lisa Wise, the top election official in El Paso County, Texas, got a list of suspected noncitizens on her voter rolls, one name quickly stood out. It was the name of someone in her office who went to get a state ID a few years ago and recently became a naturalized U.S. citizen.

The data point underscores why many are skeptical about claims from Texas’ Secretary of State David Whitley (R) and Attorney General Ken Paxton (R) that 95,000 noncitizens may be on the voting rolls and that 58,000 of them voted in at least one election since 1996. Election officials, lawyers and experts said that number is likely inflated because of people who applied for driver’s licenses when they were legal permanent residents and later became naturalized.
========================================
Figures lie & liars figure.
Click to expand...

Of course that is possible. However given that there are 95,000 registered that, as of their last D.L. and the most recent check with Homeland Security, are prima-facia case of at least some portion of illegal registration (among current legal non-citizens) then that is a problem, especially when that list does not consider ILLEGAL aliens. IF it is true that 1/3rd of Texas voters are naturalized citizens (as one article claims) then MOST do not have this discrepancy; after all, records are accurate for those (millions?) of naturalized folk that did not show up on the list.

Finally "inflated numbers" are not the issue for many of us. The issue is the integrity of the voting system because illegal voteing make an equal number of legal votes irrelevant. It does not matter if 50,000 or 5000 or 500 illegal votes are cast every election - the outcome of elections can be decided on as little as one vote (as in NC). Frankly, they shouldn't be just purging lists, they need to do some door knocking, find, and arrest probable violators.

Voting integrity rests as much (or more) on fear of being caught and being severely punished as it does on putting people on the honor system.
 
JacksinPA said:
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/texas-voter-fraud-allegations_us_5c4f8708e4b00906b26c62ac

When Lisa Wise, the top election official in El Paso County, Texas, got a list of suspected noncitizens on her voter rolls, one name quickly stood out. It was the name of someone in her office who went to get a state ID a few years ago and recently became a naturalized U.S. citizen.

The data point underscores why many are skeptical about claims from Texas’ Secretary of State David Whitley (R) and Attorney General Ken Paxton (R) that 95,000 noncitizens may be on the voting rolls and that 58,000 of them voted in at least one election since 1996. Election officials, lawyers and experts said that number is likely inflated because of people who applied for driver’s licenses when they were legal permanent residents and later became naturalized.
========================================
Figures lie & liars figure.
Click to expand...

This story does exactly what it is accusing others of doing - jumping to conclusions with no facts to back them up.

When Lisa Wise, the top election official in El Paso County, Texas, got a list of suspected noncitizens on her voter rolls, one name quickly stood out. It was the name of someone in her office who went to get a state ID a few years ago and recently became a naturalized U.S. citizen.
[...]
Wise said her office received about 4,100 names to investigate from the Secretary of State’s Office on Sunday evening. She said the Department of Public Safety (DPS), which maintains driver’s license records, might have outdated records.
[...]
Wise said her office would take its time reviewing the records — some of which dated back to the early 1970s — to make sure they are accurate but said she anticipated many of the names provided by the Secretary of State’s Office were errors. She added that quick accusations of voter fraud were not helpful.

“That’s inaccurate at this point. None of that has been proven. And I just don’t want that to kind of lead what’s going to happen,” she said. “When we start deciding something is voter fraud without proof, that’s a real problem.”
Click to expand...

The bottom line is that Wise got a list of 4100 names of possible non-citizens, allegedly recognized one name that had recently become a US citizen yet never states if any other such "errors" might have been made. In other words, if one out of 4100 suspected non-citizen names was "mistaken" then the (entire?) list is therefore suspect - making exactly the kind of "quick accusation" which she finds to be "not helpful". Surely if Wise "anticipated many" inaccuracies on that list then she would have at least found a second "inaccurate" name to use as an example. The bottom line is that Wise has apparently not checked that list of 4100 names at all - with the notable (amazing?) exception of one (undisclosed?) name that she allegeldly recognized as erroneous.
 
Last edited:
Carjosse said:
It is not partisan to point out that errors could be made for a reason as simple as someone's immigration status was not updated in a database recently enough. Does that mean that all of them are unfounded of course not but it definitely undermines most of the right-wing medias claims they found a smoking gun of massive voter fraud.
Click to expand...
You make a good point. And, of course, finding 95,000 doesn't mean that was all there were, either.
 
Carjosse said:
It is not partisan to point out that errors could be made for a reason as simple as someone's immigration status was not updated in a database recently enough. Does that mean that all of them are unfounded of course not but it definitely undermines most of the right-wing medias claims they found a smoking gun of massive voter fraud.
Click to expand...

The list was of suspected non-citizens on voter rolls - finding one out of 4100 names to have recently become a citizen does not "undermine most" of those 4100 names as not being US citizens. The OP linked story does pretty much what you claim to want to stop - jumping to conclusions without checking the data carefully.
 
JacksinPA said:
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/texas-voter-fraud-allegations_us_5c4f8708e4b00906b26c62ac

When Lisa Wise, the top election official in El Paso County, Texas, got a list of suspected noncitizens on her voter rolls, one name quickly stood out. It was the name of someone in her office who went to get a state ID a few years ago and recently became a naturalized U.S. citizen.

The data point underscores why many are skeptical about claims from Texas’ Secretary of State David Whitley (R) and Attorney General Ken Paxton (R) that 95,000 noncitizens may be on the voting rolls and that 58,000 of them voted in at least one election since 1996. Election officials, lawyers and experts said that number is likely inflated because of people who applied for driver’s licenses when they were legal permanent residents and later became naturalized.
========================================
Figures lie & liars figure.
Click to expand...

Why should I be skeptical when you wave a red shirt over everything Trump?
 
uptower said:
Not a shred of evidence so far for the attorney general's claim.

They're priming the pump to start purging rolls. They can see the state starting to turn purple and it scares them. As usual rather than modify policies to appeal to a wider base of voters, the GOP would rather just get rid of people who don't vote for them.
Click to expand...

When you can't win on message, cheat. It's the Republican way.
 
JacksinPA said:
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/texas-voter-fraud-allegations_us_5c4f8708e4b00906b26c62ac

When Lisa Wise, the top election official in El Paso County, Texas, got a list of suspected noncitizens on her voter rolls, one name quickly stood out. It was the name of someone in her office who went to get a state ID a few years ago and recently became a naturalized U.S. citizen.

The data point underscores why many are skeptical about claims from Texas’ Secretary of State David Whitley (R) and Attorney General Ken Paxton (R) that 95,000 noncitizens may be on the voting rolls and that 58,000 of them voted in at least one election since 1996. Election officials, lawyers and experts said that number is likely inflated because of people who applied for driver’s licenses when they were legal permanent residents and later became naturalized.
========================================
Figures lie & liars figure.
Click to expand...

Which any idiot would have checked for before claiming that they had a proper list, a usable list.

See that is the problem, if what you say is true then our government sucks ass, and you need to make some noise to the effect that you understand this.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
The problem is, almost 100,000 non citizens are on voting rolls and you want to argue a non-quantifiable number actually are legal voters and use an anecdote to back it up.
Because almost 100,000 illegal voters in one state means democrat state officials who believe they benefit from illegal voters won't be able to deny there's illegal voting.

It is so stupid to insist that when crimes of fraud of all times occur tens of millions of times every year that only like 12 or 13 or whatever impossibly small number of fraudulent votes democrats claim there is, people will lie on a form to vote.
Click to expand...

No, the problem is, we don't know how many have bevome citizens within the last 22 to 23 years since this issue developed. But now, suddenly, conservatives cry "massive voter fraud" over a possible 0.38% of Texas's total voters. Less, since only 58,000 were found to have actually cast votes over those decades.

You righties sure do like to get your boxers in a bunch over not much of anything. Amazing.
 
maxparrish said:
Of course that is possible. However given that there are 95,000 registered that, as of their last D.L. and the most recent check with Homeland Security, are prima-facia case of at least some portion of illegal registration (among current legal non-citizens) then that is a problem, especially when that list does not consider ILLEGAL aliens. IF it is true that 1/3rd of Texas voters are naturalized citizens (as one article claims) then MOST do not have this discrepancy; after all, records are accurate for those (millions?) of naturalized folk that did not show up on the list.

Finally "inflated numbers" are not the issue for many of us. The issue is the integrity of the voting system because illegal voteing make an equal number of legal votes irrelevant. It does not matter if 50,000 or 5000 or 500 illegal votes are cast every election - the outcome of elections can be decided on as little as one vote (as in NC). Frankly, they shouldn't be just purging lists, they need to do some door knocking, find, and arrest probable violators.

Voting integrity rests as much (or more) on fear of being caught and being severely punished as it does on putting people on the honor system.
Click to expand...

Right. Let's send out the jack booted storm troopers and round these nefarious criminals up before they destroy democracy.

Sheesh.
 
Bullseye said:
Oh, well Twitter,, you got me. Every one know every word on twitter is gospel truth.
Click to expand...

Not only do you refuse to read the article, you aren't even capable of reading the URL. It may have come through a twitter feed, but it clearly identifies the Texas Tribune as the source.

Pathetic.
 
JacksinPA said:
Here’s Why You Should Be Skeptical Of Texas’ Allegations Of Voter Fraud

When Lisa Wise, the top election official in El Paso County, Texas, got a list of suspected noncitizens on her voter rolls, one name quickly stood out. It was the name of someone in her office who went to get a state ID a few years ago and recently became a naturalized U.S. citizen.

The data point underscores why many are skeptical about claims from Texas’ Secretary of State David Whitley (R) and Attorney General Ken Paxton (R) that 95,000 noncitizens may be on the voting rolls and that 58,000 of them voted in at least one election since 1996. Election officials, lawyers and experts said that number is likely inflated because of people who applied for driver’s licenses when they were legal permanent residents and later became naturalized....
Click to expand...

Red:
A few days ago, I remarked upon this topic saying that, notwithstanding whatever ostensibly well-intended outcomes voter ID laws may augur to effect, and accepting as true the TX SecState's assertion that some 58K non-citizens have voted in TX, voter ID laws designed as are the ones TX has implemented don't work. Thus:
  • If the TX SecState's assertions are true, so what? The voter ID law as TX has enacted isn't achieving the end it's supposed to.
  • If the TX SecState's assertions are false, as your content above suggests, to use them as as basis for deciding to act in any way at all is to behave benightedly.
So from where I sit, something's clearly amiss. The relevant questions Texans, and non-Texans who advocate mimicking TX's voter ID policy, need to ask, at least at the start, are:
  1. Is the SecState being factually and contextually honest or is s/he dissembling?
  2. Another question, one following from the vague temporal context the SecState has provided, for which one needs the answer is: how many non-citizens per year vote in TX elections?

    I don't pay taxes in TX, but if I did, I'd be furious that my tax dollars were used to catch a couple hundred disparate non-citizen voters in a state of some 28M people. If the overwhelming preponderance of such voters are in some sparsely populated place, maybe spending some resources to interdict them is apropos. But if they're in Dallas, Houston, Austin, or some other large city, almost certainly I wouldn't spend a dime worrying about it.
  3. Why the hell is the current law not working? Is the SecState inept? Is the TX Atty. General and the various "Chiefs of Police" and other officials responsible for enforcing the law inept? Is the law flawed?

    As the SecSTate noted in his press release:

    If a registered voter is identified as a non-U.S. citizen, he or she should receive a Notice of Examination (PDF) from the county voter registrar indicating that his or her registration status is being examined on the grounds that he or she is not a U.S. citizen. The registered voter will then be required to provide proof of citizenship in order to stay registered, which may be done by submitting to the voter registrar a copy of one of the following documents:
    • A certified copy of the voter's birth certificate
    • United States passport; or
    • Certificate of naturalization (Citizenship certificate)
    If the person responds indicating he or she is not a U.S. citizen, or fails to respond to the Notice within 30 days, then the voter registration will be cancelled by the county voter registrar. County voter registrars have been provided with numerous training opportunities to ensure that list maintenance activities are conducted in accordance with state and federal law so as to not affect eligible voters.
 
Idiometer said:
Not only do you refuse to read the article, you aren't even capable of reading the URL. It may have come through a twitter feed, but it clearly identifies the Texas Tribune as the source.

Pathetic.
Click to expand...
And what exactly is the "Texas Tribune"? By the way your ignorant insults don't help make the case that you know anything.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
If voters are legal and voting they will not get purged. It's so funny that democrats will insist that no illegal voting occurs and then when it is shown there is they just deny reality and re-assert no illegal voting occurs.
Click to expand...

But that is not what happens. They can be purged for being legal and not voting, or moving house, or having the same last name as a felon or a dead guy or a million other reasons. Too often that surname is Washington or Hernandez.

And illegal voting has not been 'shown' by the Texas attorney general. He made the allegation with no evidence whatsoever, as demonstrated in the Snopes fact check I posted earlier.
 
uptower said:
But that is not what happens. They can be purged for being legal and not voting, or moving house, or having the same last name as a felon or a dead guy or a million other reasons. Too often that surname is Washington or Hernandez.

And illegal voting has not been 'shown' by the Texas attorney general. He made the allegation with no evidence whatsoever, as demonstrated in the Snopes fact check I posted earlier.
Click to expand...

So what mathematical formula do you use to determine which surnames should or should not be purged?

Also in nearly all cases of voter purges letters are sent to the voter's registered address informing them they will be purged if they don't respond. If someone doesn't reply to their mail then I simply do not care if they were removed from the rolls.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
So what mathematical formula do you use to determine which surnames should or should not be purged?

Also in nearly all cases of voter purges letters are sent to the voter's registered address informing them they will be purged if they don't respond. If someone doesn't reply to their mail then I simply do not care if they were removed from the rolls.
Click to expand...

Oh it's mathematical is it? I was under the impression they just go down the list and strike off anyone who sounds ethnic.

The only math involved is how many fewer voters state Republican voters are racing one another to wipe off the register.
 
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