• Please keep all posts on the Rittenhouse verdict here: Rittenhouse Verdict. Note the moderator warnings in the thread. The thread will be heavily moderated with a zero tolerance policy for any baiting, flaming, trolling or other rule breaks. Stick to the topic and not the other posters. Thank you.
  • This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Here’s how many people tested positive under Rick Snyder’s program to test welfare

Celebrity

DP Veteran
Joined
May 13, 2016
Messages
5,257
Reaction score
761
Location
VT, USA
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed

chuckiechan

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 2, 2015
Messages
16,568
Reaction score
7,252
Location
California Caliphate
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Re: Here’s how many people tested positive under Rick Snyder’s program to test welfar

Money is fungible.

In California you buy groceries with your ebt card for the guy next door who pays you for them.

Or you to to a liquor store that takes EBT cards, most are run my foreigners, and they ring up liquor as food and take a cut. (assuming they know you).

Most have a "program" going - child care, laundry, house cleaning, things I won't mention, all to supplement the welfare income. The man is working cash for a gardener, roofer, etc.

We are the world's biggest suckers.
 

mak2

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 16, 2012
Messages
12,050
Reaction score
5,716
Location
Indiana
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Re: Here’s how many people tested positive under Rick Snyder’s program to test welfar

Damn furriners.
Money is fungible.

In California you buy groceries with your ebt card for the guy next door who pays you for them.

Or you to to a liquor store that takes EBT cards, most are run my foreigners, and they ring up liquor as food and take a cut. (assuming they know you).

Most have a "program" going - child care, laundry, house cleaning, things I won't mention, all to supplement the welfare income. The man is working cash for a gardener, roofer, etc.

We are the world's biggest suckers.
 

azgreg

Chicks dig the long ball
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 28, 2012
Messages
23,869
Reaction score
20,915
Location
Phoenix, AZ
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent

_Sal

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 9, 2014
Messages
6,472
Reaction score
2,705
Location
somewhere across the border in the great North
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
Re: Here’s how many people tested positive under Rick Snyder’s program to test welfar


no we can't

because truth has nothing to do with held belief and prejudice

in truth there are more middle class people addicted to opiates than welfare

that will never be recognized by a certain segment of the population

ever
 

Celebrity

DP Veteran
Joined
May 13, 2016
Messages
5,257
Reaction score
761
Location
VT, USA
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Re: Here’s how many people tested positive under Rick Snyder’s program to test welfar

no we can't

because truth has nothing to do with held belief and prejudice

in truth there are more middle class people addicted to opiates than welfare

that will never be recognized by a certain segment of the population

ever

Are you saying that the poor are using welfare money to purchase, mark up and sell drugs to the middle class? I mean, that's personal use, but not by the welfare recipient. There's no way you can prove this by testing for drugs.
 

Chomsky

Social Democrat
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 28, 2015
Messages
58,833
Reaction score
45,666
Location
Third Coast
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Re: Here’s how many people tested positive under Rick Snyder’s program to test welfar

Things like this is why I find it nearly impossible to vote GOP, no matter how much I dislike Mrs. Clinton.

There's this constant intrusive testing for their conformity standards: Drugs, sex, religion, party, etc!

We all have to be cookie-cutter to their standards.

It's like this party never heard of "Live & let Live"!

I'll stop before I Godwin here ...
 

Celebrity

DP Veteran
Joined
May 13, 2016
Messages
5,257
Reaction score
761
Location
VT, USA
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Re: Here’s how many people tested positive under Rick Snyder’s program to test welfar

Things like this is why I find it nearly impossible to vote GOP, no matter how much I dislike Mrs. Clinton.

There's this constant intrusive testing for their conformity standards: Drugs, sex, religion, party, etc!

We all have to be cookie-cutter to their standards.

It's like this party never heard of "Live & let Live"!

I'll stop before I Godwin here ...

Yup. I can't vote GOP. Even if I agree with the nationalist sentiment, it wouldn't come close to how much I disagree with the religious pandering, the obstinate refusal to admit that the world has changed in the past 50 years and the hierarchical preference for subordination/insubordination instead of leaders with conviction that is so often found on the left.
 

azgreg

Chicks dig the long ball
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 28, 2012
Messages
23,869
Reaction score
20,915
Location
Phoenix, AZ
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Re: Here’s how many people tested positive under Rick Snyder’s program to test welfar

Things like this is why I find it nearly impossible to vote GOP, no matter how much I dislike Mrs. Clinton.

There's this constant intrusive testing for their conformity standards: Drugs, sex, religion, party, etc!

We all have to be cookie-cutter to their standards.

It's like this party never heard of "Live & let Live"!

I'll stop before I Godwin here ...

Hooray for the small gov party.
 

_Sal

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 9, 2014
Messages
6,472
Reaction score
2,705
Location
somewhere across the border in the great North
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
Re: Here’s how many people tested positive under Rick Snyder’s program to test welfar

Are you saying that the poor are using welfare money to purchase, mark up and sell drugs to the middle class? I mean, that's personal use, but not by the welfare recipient. There's no way you can prove this by testing for drugs.

no I am saying people point fingers at social assistance users and says drugs because they have a mind set and it has nothing to do with reality

the biggest user of opiates are the middle class usually starting with prescription use and then leading to street drugs when they can no longer access scripts
 

ocean515

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 26, 2013
Messages
36,760
Reaction score
15,464
Location
Southern California
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Re: Here’s how many people tested positive under Rick Snyder’s program to test welfar


Um. There are over 100,000,000 receiving government assistance. While it's good to see 303 of them did not test positive for drugs, your claim, in light of the sample set size, is not supportable.
 

Risky Thicket

Sewer Rat
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Messages
31,420
Reaction score
32,750
Location
With Yo Mama
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Re: Here’s how many people tested positive under Rick Snyder’s program to test welfar

Things like this is why I find it nearly impossible to vote GOP, no matter how much I dislike Mrs. Clinton.

There's this constant intrusive testing for their conformity standards: Drugs, sex, religion, party, etc!

We all have to be cookie-cutter to their standards.

It's like this party never heard of "Live & let Live"!

I'll stop before I Godwin here ...

Yes, again and again with the bit about big government being the enemy except when they want big government to whip the masses in line and force them to conform.
 

Celebrity

DP Veteran
Joined
May 13, 2016
Messages
5,257
Reaction score
761
Location
VT, USA
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Re: Here’s how many people tested positive under Rick Snyder’s program to test welfar

Um. There are over 100,000,000 receiving government assistance. While it's good to see 303 of them did not test positive for drugs, your claim, in light of the sample set size, is not supportable.

https://www.reddit.com/r/statistics/comments/337htb/why_is_n_30_considered_a_large_sample_in/

Time for you to go back to high school statistics and T-scores! Enjoy. :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student's_t-distribution
 

Risky Thicket

Sewer Rat
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Messages
31,420
Reaction score
32,750
Location
With Yo Mama
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Re: Here’s how many people tested positive under Rick Snyder’s program to test welfar

Yup. I can't vote GOP. Even if I agree with the nationalist sentiment, it wouldn't come close to how much I disagree with the religious pandering, the obstinate refusal to admit that the world has changed in the past 50 years and the hierarchical preference for subordination/insubordination instead of leaders with conviction that is so often found on the left.

Well stated. :thumbs:
 

Chomsky

Social Democrat
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 28, 2015
Messages
58,833
Reaction score
45,666
Location
Third Coast
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Re: Here’s how many people tested positive under Rick Snyder’s program to test welfar

Yup. I can't vote GOP. Even if I agree with the nationalist sentiment, it wouldn't come close to how much I disagree with the religious pandering, the obstinate refusal to admit that the world has changed in the past 50 years and the hierarchical preference for subordination/insubordination instead of leaders with conviction that is so often found on the left.
Yeah, I have to admit I'm feeling a bit of the nationalist swing myself, which like most things I think is fine as long as not carried extreme to detriment. And I doubt you'll find anyone more *against* illegal immigration than me.

But really - do we want to see a religious test before entering the country? Scary stuff!

If there was a Trump equivalent in the White House during the times of the Italian waves of immigration into America, I wouldn't be here! :doh

Thank God they let us Catholics in ...
 

ocean515

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 26, 2013
Messages
36,760
Reaction score
15,464
Location
Southern California
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Re: Here’s how many people tested positive under Rick Snyder’s program to test welfar


Sorry, but I'll stick with my college level statistics education and keep the same claim in place.

Perhaps you should wait for the next lesson in your class to understand the claim you made.

303 out of a sample exceeding 100,000,000 has a significantly lower level of confidence, and and would have a confidence interval below 6. As such it would be inappropriate to conclude all 100,000,000+ would sample the same way as the 303 did in Michigan.


Let me know if there is anything else I can clear up for you. I suspect the probability you will is quite low.

:peace
 

Chomsky

Social Democrat
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 28, 2015
Messages
58,833
Reaction score
45,666
Location
Third Coast
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Re: Here’s how many people tested positive under Rick Snyder’s program to test welfar

Yes, again and again with the bit about big government being the enemy except when they want big government to whip the masses in line and force them to conform.
The GOP vision of government seems to be:

"Give the corps & plutocratic entities their freedom, but clamp down upon & whip the common citizens into line"!

To see evidence of this all we need to do is examine their doupolistic push in removing corporate regulations, while increasing the criminality of human behaviour and expanding the corporate privatizing and expansion of the prison system to house those falling into the ever-expanding web of criminal code.

If that's not the definition of oligarchic fascism, I don't know what is.
 

Celebrity

DP Veteran
Joined
May 13, 2016
Messages
5,257
Reaction score
761
Location
VT, USA
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Re: Here’s how many people tested positive under Rick Snyder’s program to test welfar

Sorry, but I'll stick with my college level statistics education and keep the same claim in place.

Perhaps you should wait for the next lesson in your class to understand the claim you made.

303 out of a sample exceeding 100,000,000 has a significantly lower level of confidence, and and would have a confidence interval below 6. As such it would be inappropriate to conclude all 100,000,000+ would sample the same way as the 303 did in Michigan.


Let me know if there is anything else I can clear up for you. I suspect the probability you will is quite low.

:peace

What you can clear up for me is to do the work needed to find the optimal sample size for an appropriately tight interval. I suspect that the 303 tested is enough to draw conclusions about drug use among welfare recipients in the state of Michigan. A robust confidence interval will support the claim that Rick Snyder's constituents are not using welfare money to buy drugs.
 

ocean515

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 26, 2013
Messages
36,760
Reaction score
15,464
Location
Southern California
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Re: Here’s how many people tested positive under Rick Snyder’s program to test welfar

What you can clear up for me is to do the work needed to find the optimal sample size for an appropriately tight interval. I suspect that the 303 tested is enough to draw conclusions about drug use among welfare recipients in the state of Michigan. A robust confidence interval will support the claim that Rick Snyder's constituents are not using welfare money to buy drugs.

It's apparent you could use the practice, so I will leave it to you to figure it out.

Also, your claim wasn't just about Rick Snyder's constituents, but all recipients:

"Can we all agree that people aren't using welfare money to buy drugs for personal use?"
 

Celebrity

DP Veteran
Joined
May 13, 2016
Messages
5,257
Reaction score
761
Location
VT, USA
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Re: Here’s how many people tested positive under Rick Snyder’s program to test welfar

It's apparent you could use the practice, so I will leave it to you to figure it out.

Also, your claim wasn't just about Rick Snyder's constituents, but all recipients:

"Can we all agree that people aren't using welfare money to buy drugs for personal use?"

I'll simply ask you to describe what type of society in which it is ok to make an empirical observation in an involuntary experiment involving people. That's a question of methodology, not statistics.
 

ocean515

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 26, 2013
Messages
36,760
Reaction score
15,464
Location
Southern California
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Re: Here’s how many people tested positive under Rick Snyder’s program to test welfar

I'll simply ask you to describe what type of society in which it is ok to make an empirical observation in an involuntary experiment involving people. That's a question of methodology, not statistics.

LOL

Well, I'll reply that it would helpful if you first asked a question that could be understood.
 

Celebrity

DP Veteran
Joined
May 13, 2016
Messages
5,257
Reaction score
761
Location
VT, USA
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Re: Here’s how many people tested positive under Rick Snyder’s program to test welfar

LOL

Well, I'll reply that it would helpful if you first asked a question that could be understood.

Ok, how many people do we need to test until we admit that it's a waste of time and resources? Should we continue testing until we find one black sheep? Is it more likely that welfare recipients are drug abusers or not, based on the data in the OP?

I agree that the probability of finding a single drug abuser increases as the population increases, so it would be nearly impossible to provide a confidence interval with any likelihood of not finding a drug abuser among 100,000,000 people. I don't think that finding one drug abuser would disprove my original statement that, in general, people do not buy drugs with welfare money. Of course, my question was directed toward the absolute "all of us commenting in this thread" and not a question of "all welfare recipients." Easy to see how that could be misconstrued. I am not leading you toward despotism.
 

ttwtt78640

Sometimes wrong
DP Veteran
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
73,363
Reaction score
41,849
Location
Uhland, Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
Re: Here’s how many people tested positive under Rick Snyder’s program to test welfar


No, but we can agree that most drug testing programs are not going to prove to be cost effective. We can also agree that very few folks fail a BGC when buying a gun from a FFL dealer and even fewer are prosecuted for making the illegal attempt to do so. Some laws are just enacted to make folks feel that government is doing the right thing.
 

Captain Adverse

Classical Liberal Sage
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 22, 2013
Messages
16,646
Reaction score
21,939
Location
Mid-West USA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Re: Here’s how many people tested positive under Rick Snyder’s program to test welfar


I guess that all depends on when a person is tested, how they are tested, and what their drug of choice is.

I've known lifelong marijuana users who regularly pass urine tests...by simply over-hydrating and urinating repeatedly hours before and right up to the time of the test.

Here is a chart of how long a drug stays in your system and what kind of test might succeed or fail to detect it:

How Long Each Drug Stays In your Body.. Drug Use Chart

I can't find which test they are using, but judging from the info in the article about how little they've spent to test 303 people, I'm willing to bet it was a urine test.

NOTE: The hair sample test is the best method of detecting drug use, effective for up to 90 days after usage.
 
Last edited:

Celebrity

DP Veteran
Joined
May 13, 2016
Messages
5,257
Reaction score
761
Location
VT, USA
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Re: Here’s how many people tested positive under Rick Snyder’s program to test welfar

NOTE: The hair sample test is the best method of detecting drug use, effective for up to 90 days after usage.

That's why I haven't smoked weed in two years. Next thing you know they'll be taking fat cultures via liposuction. I already have that covered too, because I burn fat when I exercise.
 
Top Bottom