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Help Wanted

I'm working on a project of sorts relating to the abortion issue.

It's a project that could be useful for my website or maybe even a book. (as well as to this forum)

What I am interested in is this; I would like to gather as many aspects to the abortion debate as I possibly can.

And if it is at all possible, I would like the aspects presented on the form of a question.

Example; "Biologically speaking, when does a new individual's life begin?"

Please submit your most direct and hardest hitting questions,... even loaded questions.

The more the better!

Can you define sentience in such a way that you separate the sentient fetus from the sentient animal?

When, exactly, are the biological structures in place that permit sentience in the fetus?

How does the phrase "I think, therefore I am" influence the abortion debate and the disposition of the fetus's status as a person?"
 
Can you define sentience in such a way that you separate the sentient fetus from the sentient animal?

When, exactly, are the biological structures in place that permit sentience in the fetus?

How does the phrase "I think, therefore I am" influence the abortion debate and the disposition of the fetus's status as a person?"

As these are questions that likely reflect your thought process,... I thank you for them!
 
That said, this thread is Not for answering them.

One answer suggestion from me anyway: I think some pregnant women have an abortion, because they dont think they have any other choice. They believe things like they cant afford to have a baby because they dont have enough money, or that they cant have a baby because they cant look after it alone and work or study at the same time. etc I think it would be useful, if there are single mothers who provide counselling for those who are pregnant and alone, to give them examples and reassurance of how they themselves have overcome the challanges of single parenthood.

When I got pregnant with my daughter, I was confused. I did not even know if I could afford the medical expenses. It turned out that in Ireland where I come from, pregnant women and new mothers do not have to pay for medical care for themselves or their babies. If I had had some kind of experienced single mother to explain this and other things to me, I would have had less stress and worry, on finding out I was pregnant.
 
Like I said, answer or don't, I really had no expectation that you would.

Sometimes people dont have the answers yet. Is there anything really wrong with that. Surely, people can discuss the questions, even if they dont have the answers.
 
How many people who take issue with or fully support Roe v Wade have ever actually read the opinion? How much of Blackmun's later discussion of the issue is relevant to the way we treat the ruling today?

Is there any moral consequence to the destruction of the fetus if it knows no suffering or has any ambition interrupted?

The focus of the abortion debate always shifts to the personhood of the fetus. However, the center of the debate is actually the line of differentiation between the rights of self determination and bodily sovereignty of the woman versus the right to life of the fetus. Is there a way to strike a balance between the two matters without inflicting grievous injury to the liberty of either party?
 
How many people who take issue with or fully support Roe v Wade have ever actually read the opinion? How much of Blackmun's later discussion of the issue is relevant to the way we treat the ruling today?

Is there any moral consequence to the destruction of the fetus if it knows no suffering or has any ambition interrupted?

The focus of the abortion debate always shifts to the personhood of the fetus. However, the center of the debate is actually the line of differentiation between the rights of self determination and bodily sovereignty of the woman versus the right to life of the fetus. Is there a way to strike a balance between the two matters without inflicting grievous injury to the liberty of either party?

What can I say?

Good stuff,.. and I have in fact read Roe many times as well as listened to the oral arguments which I have copies of.

I also corresponded for a brief time by email with Norma McCorvey (aka Jane Roe) after she turned 'pro-life.'

You wouldn't believe what made us part ways.
 
Does life (and lifeforms) truly have a strictly defined limit is it more ambiguous than we have been led to believe?

To explain: is a virus alive? A prion? A sperm cell? And egg cell? Are haploid organisms truly lifeforms of the species from which they came?
 
Does life (and lifeforms) truly have a strictly defined limit is it more ambiguous than we have been led to believe?

To explain: is a virus alive? A prion? A sperm cell? And egg cell? Are haploid organisms truly lifeforms of the species from which they came?

I have to admit,... I don't understand the first one. But thanks.

Also it disturbs me that there may be a rainbow pissing pony just out of frame on this;

5457.gif
 
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In a similar vein as jall's last post:

Which was a worse ruling for the "pro-life" movement: Roe v. Wade or Doe v. Bolton?
 
I have to admit,... i don't understand the first one. But thanks.

It relates to prions and viruses. They are not clearly defined as being "living organisms" or not. There is debate within the scientific community on their classification.

The beginning of a human life may be earlier than conception depending on the way those potential lifeforms are defined.

I realize it's a bizarre question. Its hard to word properly. Sorry.
 
I also corresponded for a brief time by email with Norma McCorvey (aka Jane Roe) after she turned 'pro-life.'

You wouldn't believe what made us part ways.

I know you said this isn't the thread for answers but...

What made you part ways? You have me curious now. LOL
 
I know you said this isn't the thread for answers but...

What made you part ways? You have me curious now. LOL

It turns out that the only real reason Norma McCorvey became 'pro-life' is her religion.

She wasn't interested in the biology, the Constitution or anything other than a religious based defense,.... and she had at that time surrounded herself with a lot of people who were intentionally keeping it that way.

I offered my help and even money,.... but when I started trying to show her that the only way to overturn the ruling (which is what she was trying to do at the time) was on a secular line of reasoning,... she slammed the door shut.

She subsequently lost her appeal.
 
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It turns out that the only real reason Norma McCorvey became 'pro-life' is her religion.

She wasn't interested in the biology, the Constitution or anything other than a religious based defense,.... and she had at that time surrounded herself with a lot of people who were intentionally keeping it that way.

I offered my help and even money,.... but when I started trying to show her that the only way to overturn the reason was on a secular line of reasoning,... she slammed the door shut.

That's kinda sad. I wonder if she realizes that her defense is probably the most detrimental to the prolife argument....
 
That's kinda sad. I wonder if she realizes that her defense is probably the most detrimental to the prolife argument....

I really feel sorry for her (Norma).

She's been pushed and pulled through the whole mess for just about her whole life,... and when you talk to her, you get the sense that she really doesn't have a clue on how to (trying not to be cruel here),... she doesn't seem to have the ???? to think for herself and take charge of her own situation.

And you're right,... she has ended up in a position of making it even harder for those who like myself see it as a Constitutional, legal issue as well as a humanity issue.
 
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Here are some questions pro-life people have not been able to resolve for me in any logical fashion. I wrote these myself, just now. Chuz, you are welcome to post these on your website and have them challenged by you and your friends. My only condition is that you post all of them, and not just the ones you feel are easy to answer.

What are the social and economic ramifications of forcing pregnant women into parenthood when they aren't ready? How would it affect entitlement programs, youth and gang violence, poverty rates, and resource allocation?

How would illegalization of abortion affect the justice system, prison populations, and the meaning of marriage and pregnancy in a free society? What new measures would be required, judicially, to discover and enact enforcement of pregnancies upon women in the United States?

In what way does illegalizing abortion provide the best possible outcome for stable, loving families and in turn a society with a solid foundation?

At the moment an egg and sperm meet to become a zygote, why "should" constitutional personhood be granted to it that is equal to a born baby or an adult human?

Why are individual sperm and eggs not granted the same status even though they are the ingredients for the creation of life?

What would fetal "personhood" mean for legal access to contraception, including condoms, birth control pills, IUDs, and the morning after pill?

Why should personhood be granted to fetuses at stages where they are naturally and disproportionately more vulnerable to spontaneous abortion and miscarriage, thus requiring legal intervention and investigation when a woman miscarries?

How would making abortion illegal actually prevent it from happening, when it has always happened for thousands of years outside of the innovations of modern medical technology and legal purview? (i.e. herbs, pressure points, bodily neglect, stress, and injury can all facilitate rapid abortion.)

Why is there a modern claim to fetal personhood under religious virtue when that claim didn't exist before, even during the most conservative, theocratic reigns of Europe during the Middle Ages?

What is the direct relationship between the women's suffrage movement and the anti-abortion movement in both the United States and Great Britain?
 
What is the direct relationship between the women's suffrage movement and the anti-abortion movement in both the United States and Great Britain?

I think this is an important point. Many of the countries in which abortion is illegal also have poor womens rights legislation, or even anti womens rights legislation sometimes. Developing and maintaining womens rights standards has to go hand in hand with efforts to reduce the incidents of abortions.
 
Here are some questions pro-life people have not been able to resolve for me in any logical fashion. I wrote these myself, just now. Chuz, you are welcome to post these on your website and have them challenged by you and your friends. My only condition is that you post all of them, and not just the ones you feel are easy to answer.

What are the social and economic ramifications of forcing pregnant women into parenthood when they aren't ready? How would it affect entitlement programs, youth and gang violence, poverty rates, and resource allocation?

How would illegalization of abortion affect the justice system, prison populations, and the meaning of marriage and pregnancy in a free society? What new measures would be required, judicially, to discover and enact enforcement of pregnancies upon women in the United States?

In what way does illegalizing abortion provide the best possible outcome for stable, loving families and in turn a society with a solid foundation?

At the moment an egg and sperm meet to become a zygote, why "should" constitutional personhood be granted to it that is equal to a born baby or an adult human?

Why are individual sperm and eggs not granted the same status even though they are the ingredients for the creation of life?

What would fetal "personhood" mean for legal access to contraception, including condoms, birth control pills, IUDs, and the morning after pill?

Why should personhood be granted to fetuses at stages where they are naturally and disproportionately more vulnerable to spontaneous abortion and miscarriage, thus requiring legal intervention and investigation when a woman miscarries?

How would making abortion illegal actually prevent it from happening, when it has always happened for thousands of years outside of the innovations of modern medical technology and legal purview? (i.e. herbs, pressure points, bodily neglect, stress, and injury can all facilitate rapid abortion.)

Why is there a modern claim to fetal personhood under religious virtue when that claim didn't exist before, even during the most conservative, theocratic reigns of Europe during the Middle Ages?

What is the direct relationship between the women's suffrage movement and the anti-abortion movement in both the United States and Great Britain?

(Doing my best Larry the cable guy impression,...)

"That sum book lernin stuff right dare,... I don't care ya say!"

Thanks!
 
Does anyone not have any questions about the rape aspects? Or Life of the mother? Or father's rights? Or grossly deformed children?
 
Does anyone not have any questions about the rape aspects? Or Life of the mother? Or father's rights? Or grossly deformed children?

Well, I did ask about why some pro-life people make exceptions for rape/incest.

I'm not sure what's to ask about the life of the mother, since I've never heard anyone argue that abortion should be illegal if the mother's life is in jeopardy. That's one of the few points that pretty much everyone agrees on here.

Father's rights I see as a completely separate issue, which is why I didn't bring it up.
 
Can an organism with anencephalia truly be considered human?

I'm wishing now that I had made this the "Ask Chuz Anything" thread. As, there are so many of these questions I would like to try an answer.

Would it be something I can do without having a thread like that merged into this one?
 
I'm wishing now that I had made this the "Ask Chuz Anything" thread. As, there are so many of these questions I would like to try an answer.

Would it be something I can do without having a thread like that merged into this one?

You can do an "Ask a pro-lifer" type thread and then Start teh OP off with some answers to the posts here.

I'd avoid an "ask Chuz anything" title just because "anything" is way to general, and you know some goofball like me would jump in and ask some silly questions just for fun, such as "How many hairs are in the average nose".
 
You can do an "Ask a pro-lifer" type thread and then Start teh OP off with some answers to the posts here.

I'd avoid an "ask Chuz anything" title just because "anything" is way to general, and you know some goofball like me would jump in and ask some silly questions just for fun, such as "How many hairs are in the average nose".

I dunno,... I think it might make more sense then to let those with questions they REALLY want and answer to,... to start a thread around that question themself.

Thanks though.
 
Does anyone not have any questions about the rape aspects? Or Life of the mother? Or father's rights? Or grossly deformed children?

Well I dont, because these things seem pretty clear to me.

Rape or no rape, having a termination should be a womens choice. It would just add to the cruelty of the situation, if a women had to justify having the termination in order for it to be allowed, by giving details of the rape. Some women dont even report rape, because of the ordeal of reporting it at all, to somebody or people who will not treat her with the sensitivity she deserves.

A pregnancy simply should not continue, if it could kill the mother, unless she insists on it.

Fathers have a right to prevent themselves becomming fathers by having vasectomies or using condoms. Women are always going to be the ones who take most responsibility for a pregnancy and birth and often are the ones who take most responsibility for looking after babies and children. There is no way it would be acceptable to hand over a womens righs over her body to a man or men. Havent our western societies at least got past this question yet? Men owning women is not longer acceptable in this part of the world, and womens organisations are fighting hard to end it in all parts of the world.

As concerns a deformed child, the responsibility for taking care of such a child as with any child would more likely fall heavily on the mothers shoulders. This child would need a lot of care and special help, so I think the mother should decide if she can do it.

But, as a number of people pointed out, these questions are irrelevant, because so many women are risking their lives as it is, around the world to have illegal abortions. As far as I can see the most important thing is to make what is being doing anyway safe and legal, so women do not continue to put themselves at risk both healthwise and politicallywise. Then after that is done, societies can do what they can to encourage women to have their babies, by making societies supportive of women and motherhood.

If women and motherhood were respected, in the first place in all societies, then there likely would not be so many abortions. Women cant really be expected to go through an enforced pregnancy and birth and then possible motherhood, in societies where these things will only reduce her status. Capitalist societies do not support motherhood, because mothers dedicate so much of their time and themselves to motherhood rather than earning a lot of money. But, societies which are not so capatilist yet often do not respect the rights of women and children at all. Despite having the more nurturing nature, women are rejecting motherhood for respect, freedom, wealth... because these at the things that will give her some status. Motherhood wont.
 
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