Help me to understand the conservative mind.

[bongsaway]

There actually is fake news all the time so, again, once you get past that point then we can move on to your other points. If not, remain in willful ignorance and continue to "not understand the conservative mind".

No great loss. I haven't understood the thinking of the GOP for years, a few more won't hurt.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

If you don't know that the media is bias, all of it, then I don't know what to tell you. You're as bad as the Deep Staters.

The what?

 

[Bullseye]

So how do you find a way to accept his constant lying? Tell me truthfully, if Obama had lied half as much as trump, how long would it have taken the right to try to impeach him? I think I heard today he's up to four thousand lies. Seriously, how can this be acceptable to folks?

Mostly, I see his "iles" as mostly picayune nitpicks that affect most of us very little. Unlike Obama's "if you like your plan . . ." whopper that actual won "Lie of the Year". IF Trump says the pile of hamburgers was "a mile high" when it probably wasn't - I couldn't care less. Obama told me unemployment would never get above 8% the year before it topped 10% for eleven months. And not one prog/lib called him a liar.

 

[Fishking]

Truth is not the truth. Rudy. You want to argue over accuracy and what trump said or didn't say? How about we start with the big one. Who's paying for the wall? Mexico, 100%. So why the government shutdown?

You're trying to change the topic away from this point. I'm not going to let that happen. Admit the point or not, and then we can move on to the other problems in your post. Trying to change the topic is just not going to work.

 

[Fishking]

The what?

Hmmm?

 

[Fishking]

No great loss. I haven't understood the thinking of the GOP for years, a few more won't hurt.

Then don't ask the question if you don't want to be honest enough to get to the answer.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

By the way bongsaway, there actually ARE some conservatives here.
Ain't showed up yet.

Some of em are good people.
I don't have to agree with them to like them or respect them.

 

[bongsaway]

Then don't ask the question if you don't want to be honest enough to get to the answer.

You are arguing using semantics. No matter how you want to phrase it trump calls anything in the press, on television, radio, cosmic waves or ultrasound that is negative, fake news. Just like the fake news that mexico is going to pay for the wall.

 

[Cramer]

If you don't know that the media is bias, all of it, then I don't know what to tell you. You're as bad as the Deep Staters.

The majority of the bias in the media, is in the mind of the receiver of the information.

That being said, there is always some actual bias, by the selection of stories, or some actual bias, but it is minimal. (not including Cable news, as they are mostly infotainment.) Many on the right truly think anything except FOXnews is the only true news source. That's pretty screwed up.

NPR, PBS, and most newspapers, do the good investigative reporting out there.

Vice news does some real good investigative reporting, as does the Guardian in the UK.

Reading in depth reporting are some of the best sources for the entire story.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

You are arguing using semantics. No matter how you want to phrase it trump calls anything in the press, on television, radio, cosmic waves or ultrasound that is negative, fake news. Just like the fake news that mexico is going to pay for the wall.

Notice that he never even TRIED to list anyone else, or any other organization that ALSO labels anybody as FAKE NEWS.
Ergo, Trump really IS the only one who determines what is and is not "fake news", and in effect it really IS a case of "any news he does not like is the enemy of the people."

I've waited two years for someone, anyone...to compile a comprehensive list of other professional people or other organizations that run around calling this or that network FAKE NEWS. In the end, it is an "army of one"...Trump.

Thus your prior statement:

"Trump is the one defining what is and is not "fake news". In effect you are just saying any news he does not like is the enemy of the people."

IS ENTIRELY VALID.

 

[Plasmaball]

Conservatism Isn’t really about money. I mean one small aspect of it is. Its a get rich quick scheme with the media aspect of it.
Its more about shaping america into their own version of things. Like the Taliban in a sense. Gays are in there corner being quiet.( i think for the most part the country has turned to be for gay folks now so this is a harder one, but you have that minority that still wants to stone them.Blacks being arrested, doing drugs and not speaking up. Liberals being put down and out of power. Transgender isn’t a thing in their world. It gets you locked up and shocked.

No conservatism of today is rooted back with Newt and buchanan. Its been hyped up more do to media these days. You dont have that disconnect you had back then with Newt and Pat. No real cool off, because the rightwing media is constantly pushing this us vs them narrative,sadly the left followed along because rating and money. Like i said money is an aspect of it but not the reason.

These people are willing to do anything for power. Sell themselves to an enemy in so long the left looses. Rig elections while proclaiming its the left doing it via illegals. Make a big enough noise about something and nobody will notice you stealing. Patriotism? Depend on the time of day and who you are. Standing for the flag is good…having an actual purple heart and not respecting our current Potus bad. Point out that Colin got his kneeling idea from an actual former green beret as some sort of compromise and it gets ignored or the green beret gets insulted. Then you have John McCain and the abuse he took from these folks, But everyone should have saw this coming back with Kerry and swiftboating. Serving doesnt mean anything to these folks unless you tow the line.

No conservatism has become a party of wedge and outrage issues. Not actually governing. Sure they help the rich and tow that line to a degree. But a few bills here and a few cut regulations that will just be put back in place when a dem wins isnt really that big of a deal.

you know what? thats wrong…There governing is about keeping the poor and base outraged so they can fleece the american people. Lower wages…Longer hours with no breaks, crushing unions, and if that doesnt work? they can just outsource things to other cheaper nation.

Yet trump does a mix of this. He keeps up the outrage machine but he does it for his own goals. It keeps him a float. The wall was never really important, but it keeps the base in his pocket. Think its important while he makes side deals buying asbestos from Russia ( look it up, its real) Keep the government shut down because 1) it plays to the base that the dems are the issue. 2) keeps some of his court cases from moving forward.

 

[Fishking]

You are arguing using semantics. No matter how you want to phrase it trump calls anything in the press, on television, radio, cosmic waves or ultrasound that is negative, fake news. Just like the fake news that mexico is going to pay for the wall.

Again, just say you don't want to be honest about it and that your request was more rhetorical.

 

[CriticalThought]

I never said he was correct all the time. I merely provided that actual quote, and the meaning behind it. Not the edited one to fit a false narrative that the OP propagated, as well as the media. Get the damn quote right, it's not that hard, and when you don't you just prove you may have less care for the truth than Trump.

Aren't you just parroting the same defense Trump has made of his own words?

 

[bongsaway]

Again, just say you don't want to be honest about it and that your request was more rhetorical.

Why not just say you have no clue what conservatism is today. Your circular mumbo jumbo trying to disprove trump is a liar is outrageous. If you could get past that point maybe you could give me a hint as to what a conservative thinks?

 

[Fishking]

Aren't you just parroting the same defense Trump has made of his own words?

I provided the actual quote. If this is too difficult to understand then I don't know what to say.

 

[Fishking]

Why not just say you have no clue what conservatism is today. Your circular mumbo jumbo trying to disprove trump is a liar is outrageous. If you could get past that point maybe you could give me a hint as to what a conservative thinks?

Yes, yes...your post was rhetoric and you just wanted to do a little sanctimonious preaching poorly disgusted as a call for an informative discussion. You don't have to keep repeating that point. I saw right through your post from the beginning. How about you just end the charade and just walk away.

 

[bongsaway]

Yes, yes...your post was rhetoric and you just wanted to do a little sanctimonious preaching poorly disgusted as a call for an informative discussion. You don't have to keep repeating that point. I saw right through your post from the beginning. How about you just end the charade and just walk away.

And now you have x-ray vision too? Saw right through me did ya'. You have added nothing to my understanding. You have however convinced me of my belief that you can't have a rational conversation with some folks.

 

[Fishking]

And now you have x-ray vision too? Saw right through me did ya'. You have added nothing to my understanding. You have however convinced me of my belief that you can't have a rational conversation with some folks.

You don't want to have a conversation, you want to preach. I even tagged you in another thread to give you an example to work with, you ignored it. Color me unsurprised.

 

[Nickyjo]

exactly, when the providers of the new distort, abridge and omit information that doesn't support their ideology they ARE the enemy of the people. There is a profound difference between a FREE press and a FAIR press.

Dont think Trump said that.

 

[madasheck]

If you don't know that the media is bias, all of it, then I don't know what to tell you. You're as bad as the Deep Staters.

It's funny that so many people who say the media is biased don't know the first thing about it. (Especially people like Hannity and Limbaugh.)

 

[Nickyjo]

Conservatism Isn’t really about money. I mean one small aspect of it is. Its a get rich quick scheme with the media aspect of it.
Its more about shaping america into their own version of things. Like the Taliban in a sense. Gays are in there corner being quiet.( i think for the most part the country has turned to be for gay folks now so this is a harder one, but you have that minority that still wants to stone them.Blacks being arrested, doing drugs and not speaking up. Liberals being put down and out of power. Transgender isn’t a thing in their world. It gets you locked up and shocked.

No conservatism of today is rooted back with Newt and buchanan. Its been hyped up more do to media these days. You dont have that disconnect you had back then with Newt and Pat. No real cool off, because the rightwing media is constantly pushing this us vs them narrative,sadly the left followed along because rating and money. Like i said money is an aspect of it but not the reason.

These people are willing to do anything for power. Sell themselves to an enemy in so long the left looses. Rig elections while proclaiming its the left doing it via illegals. Make a big enough noise about something and nobody will notice you stealing. Patriotism? Depend on the time of day and who you are. Standing for the flag is good…having an actual purple heart and not respecting our current Potus bad. Point out that Colin got his kneeling idea from an actual former green beret as some sort of compromise and it gets ignored or the green beret gets insulted. Then you have John McCain and the abuse he took from these folks, But everyone should have saw this coming back with Kerry and swiftboating. Serving doesnt mean anything to these folks unless you tow the line.

No conservatism has become a party of wedge and outrage issues. Not actually governing. Sure they help the rich and tow that line to a degree. But a few bills here and a few cut regulations that will just be put back in place when a dem wins isnt really that big of a deal.

you know what? thats wrong…There governing is about keeping the poor and base outraged so they can fleece the american people. Lower wages…Longer hours with no breaks, crushing unions, and if that doesnt work? they can just outsource things to other cheaper nation.

Yet trump does a mix of this. He keeps up the outrage machine but he does it for his own goals. It keeps him a float. The wall was never really important, but it keeps the base in his pocket. Think its important while he makes side deals buying asbestos from Russia ( look it up, its real) Keep the government shut down because 1) it plays to the base that the dems are the issue. 2) keeps some of his court cases from moving forward.

I am a lefty and don’t think it’s that extreme at all. On domestic policy, I think conservatives see the power of the free market, and at times - much like some Marxists in a different way - think that it handles everything perfectly. If one isn’t successful, one is lazy or unworthy by some other standards. In my view, their wisdom is needed as brakes to keep us liberals from going off the deep end. But think of what you have when you go to work: a 40-hour week, minimum wage, safety standards, protection from discrimination, unemployment insurance, workers comp, plus SS and Medicare waiting for you afterwards. All of these that humanized the workplace came from the liberal impulse and tho supported by some conservatives, were opposed by more. The twentieth century was a triumph of domestic liberalism. Who would trade working conditions in 1900 for those today? In international affairs, both liberals and conservatives opposed the Soviet empire, but many conservatives supported fascist-like governments in Latin America due to their misunderstanding of popular movements, though Vietnam was a bipartisan disaster. Reagan is given credit for the collapse of the Soviets, but Russians I knew gave thanks for Carter’s even-handed human rights policy as a factor as well. Conservatives seem to like unilateral exercise of US power without adhering to international standards, in my view because it allowed us to go one on one with Grenada. Liberals place some faith in international institutions, which gets them flack from the right but support internationally. Empires like ours have tend to act arrogantly, deluding themselves about their intentions, which often are admittedly at least partly noble. The reason I am on the left is that I believe liberals represent a balance between naive faith in the free market and naive faith that the government can solve everything, plus distrust of blind patriotism. Conservatives are a necessary, healthy part of the political mix, but tho liberal vigilance is necessary to preserve progressive gains over several generations, history, as Bill Buckley said years ago, is moving against the right.

Apologies for the rant. Second glass of wine.

 

[Puigb]

I see what the problem is...you've let yourself be uninformed by lies and misinformation from the media. Trump never said the media was the enemy of the people. First get the quote right and then perhaps we can move forward with some of the other points and perceptions you got wrong.

He implied it, and you know it. His version of "Fake News" is anyone news outlet that isn't worshipping his fat ass.

Hell, your hero considered his (now) beloved Fox News "Fake News" back during early in the GOP primaries. That was the first time he EVER attacked the media. Ironic, isn't it?

 

[CriticalThought]

I provided the actual quote. If this is too difficult to understand then I don't know what to say.

It sounds like you are parroting. If Trump determines what is and is not fake news based on how he feels about it, then this seems like arguing semantics to distract from the core of his argument, that any media that is not loyal to the president is an enemy of the people.

 

[Airyaman]

He said, "The fake news media is the enemy of the people." So when whatever news is pushing misinformation, that usually divides us more, then that is when the comment applies.

I'll run with that. I agree that bad reporting where important details are wrong is bad for public consumption.

Now, on to the next questions: whose fake news are we talking about? Fake news that is actually fake news, or "fake news" that is truthful but damaging to certain people?

 

[bongsaway]

You don't want to have a conversation, you want to preach. I even tagged you in another thread to give you an example to work with, you ignored it. Color me unsurprised.

I make it exceptionally clear I do not agree with the platform of the GOP and never have. So I was asking for help to understand. All I seem to get in return is comments like yours.