Hedge Fund Manager: Nice work if you can get it.

mbig · Sep 11, 2013

Almost all of these Big money guys have earned their following; the following that pays them the Big Bucks.
So one Cannot begrudge the agreement they make with their also-wealthy clients.
Being taxed at the Cap Gains rate however, when it's your Clients money but the manager's Salary/Fees, I feel is decidedly Not in a societies best interest.
In addition to Not getting Cap Gains rate, I am for a 50% Bracket for earners over $10 Million.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/01/business/01hedge.html
Ten years ago, when the hedge fund industry was much smaller than it is today, it took 25 hedge fund managers to earn a combined annual payday of $5 billion. Last year, it took only one.

Even Funds That Lagged Paid Richly
By JULIE CRESWELL
March 31, 2011

John Paulson, who rose to fame in 2007 with a prescient bet against subprime mortgages, earned a record $4.9 billion in 2010 as a result of a big wager that his fund, Paulson & Company, made on gold. The metal soared last year, lifting the values of some hedge funds by more than 30 percent.

Last year was very lucrative for some of the biggest and best-performing hedge funds’ chiefs. Wealth was so concentrated that a mere 25 people pocketed a total of $22.07 billion, according to this year’s annual ranking by AR Magazine, which tracks the hedge fund industry. At $50,000 a year, it would take the salaries of 441,400 Americans to match that sum.

Hedge fund managers can still have Huge paydays even in years when their funds do Not perform well. That is because of the millions they earn in fees from charging state pension funds, college endowments and wealthy individuals to manage money. These fees are typically collected regardless of whether the firm has a profit or a loss.

“So many of these guys are killing it on the management fees,” said Bradley H. Alford, chief investment officer of Alpha Capital Management, which invests in hedge funds. “You can’t feel good giving 30% of your returns to some guy who was up single digits. That has to give you indigestion.”

In fact, the hedge fund industry as a whole did not do better than the stock market last year. The HedgeFund Intelligence Global Composite Index, which tracks nearly 4,000 hedge funds around the world, had a median gain of 8% in 2010, trailing the 11.7% in the MSCI World Index of stocks and the 12.7% rise in the Standard & Poor’s 500-stock index.

And this year’s list of top hedge fund earners includes a number of managers who pocketed hundreds of millions of dollars in Fees but produced only single-digit returns for their investors. AR Magazine arrives at the pay figures by estimating a money manager’s portion of fees along with the increase in value of personal stakes in the funds.

For instance, David Shaw of D. E. Shaw, a firm that uses complex algorithms to determine its investments, made the list with income of $275 million, even though his biggest fund returned a paltry 2.45% and over all the firm Lost 40% of its assets, the magazine said. AR Magazine said Mr. Shaw, who gave up day-to-day oversight of the funds in 2002, made the list because the firm charged a 3% management fee and took 30% of the investment gains. Mr. Shaw also has much of his own personal wealth tied up in the firm.
[......]

I don't think many here know what making a few Billion a Year - not just over a lifetime - really is so:

ReformCollege · Sep 11, 2013

mbig said:
Almost all of these Big money guys have earned their following; the following that pays them the Big Bucks.
So one Cannot begrudge the agreement they make with their also-wealthy clients.
Being taxed at the Cap Gains rate however, when it's your Clients money but the manager's Salary/Fees, I feel is decidedly Not in a societies best interest.
In addition to Not getting Cap Gains rate, I am for a 50% Bracket for earners over $10 Million.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/01/business/01hedge.html
Ten years ago, when the hedge fund industry was much smaller than it is today, it took 25 hedge fund managers to earn a combined annual payday of $5 billion. Last year, it took only one.

Even Funds That Lagged Paid Richly
By JULIE CRESWELL
March 31, 2011

I don't think many here know what making a few Billion a Year - not just over a lifetime - really is so:

Well I think you'd be delighted to hear about this then. Hedge Funds Are for Suckers - Businessweek

mbig · Sep 11, 2013

1. You needlessly make the board less readable by quoting my post.
Just answer, especially if it's a Big Post, and it's Immediately above.. and you're not multi-quoting.
It makes the board Horror-city just to add a one sentence reply to Large post with JPGs.
A few people realize this common sense tactic, most don't.
Not just directed at ReformCollege.

2. The quoted portion of MY article Does contain an underlined-for-emphasis part. Again:
"In fact, the hedge fund industry as a whole did not do better than the stock market last year. The HedgeFund Intelligence Global Composite Index, which tracks nearly 4,000 hedge funds around the world, had a median gain of 8% in 2010, trailing the 11.7% in the MSCI World Index of stocks and the 12.7% rise in the Standard & Poor’s 500-stock index."

That doesn't change the fact a few have fantastic records going back 5-20 years.

Diving Mullah · Sep 11, 2013

mbig said:
Almost all of these Big money guys have earned their following; the following that pays them the Big Bucks.
So one Cannot begrudge the agreement they make with their also-wealthy clients.
Being taxed at the Cap Gains rate however, when it's your Clients money but the manager's Salary/Fees, I feel is decidedly Not in a societies best interest.
In addition to Not getting Cap Gains rate, I am for a 50% Bracket for earners over $10 Million.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/01/business/01hedge.html
Ten years ago, when the hedge fund industry was much smaller than it is today, it took 25 hedge fund managers to earn a combined annual payday of $5 billion. Last year, it took only one.

Even Funds That Lagged Paid Richly
By JULIE CRESWELL
March 31, 2011

You Commie loving leftist hippie....Fund managers are true Americans and Patriots at that... Those other "People" that you mentioned are all nothing but part of 47% who are nothing but drain on the society...

They do nothing but heal, build, and educate...Which we need none of that...we have the third world and starving children to do all of that and...well...at the price of bread crumbs. Come to think of it...I think fund managers pay way too much taxes...they should pay nothing..they connive, cheat and steal, make bad bets, crash the economy, destroy millions of job, and in turn we pay them more money to do the same thing...few years later, except bigger and badder. So why bother...this only distracts them from their real job... to make America Great...at least for that selected 1%

So please put away your unholy socialist thoughts and don't speak ill of the America's greatest heroes ever agian!

Diving Mullah

CalGun · Sep 11, 2013

So take from those who make it and give to those who don't bother to try? I guess yu can buy votes from the masses that way, but the elites will just take their business some where else and you won't be able to ever buy enough votes to keep the lazy happy.

mbig said:
Almost all of these Big money guys have earned their following; the following that pays them the Big Bucks.
So one Cannot begrudge the agreement they make with their also-wealthy clients.
Being taxed at the Cap Gains rate however, when it's your Clients money but the manager's Salary/Fees, I feel is decidedly Not in a societies best interest.
In addition to Not getting Cap Gains rate, I am for a 50% Bracket for earners over $10 Million.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/01/business/01hedge.html
Ten years ago, when the hedge fund industry was much smaller than it is today, it took 25 hedge fund managers to earn a combined annual payday of $5 billion. Last year, it took only one.

Even Funds That Lagged Paid Richly
By JULIE CRESWELL
March 31, 2011

I don't think many here know what making a few Billion a Year - not just over a lifetime - really is so:

head of joaquin · Sep 11, 2013

Hedge funds are simply bets placed by the rich who are known for risky bets since it doesn't matter to them if they lose their stake. That's why working people invest in the production of real goods and services, and the rich invest in the production of nothing. And that's why Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy lead to an explosion of hedge funds and the misallocation of capital that resulted in the Bush Meltdown.

It was like clockwork: the more money the rich have, the bigger and deeper the recession they cause.

keith · Sep 11, 2013

I suggest ya start your own hedge fund if ya jealous of the hedge fund managers.

mbig · Sep 11, 2013

CalGun said:
So take from those who make it and give to those who don't bother to try? I guess yu can buy votes from the masses that way, but the elites will just take their business some where else and you won't be able to ever buy enough votes to keep the lazy happy.

keith said:
I suggest ya start your own hedge fund if ya jealous of the hedge fund managers.

If you'll both note..
I prefaced my OP with the Fact that these guys are worth (in their clients view) what they make.
I agree.. on the best of them anyway. Overall though don't really outperform the market.
As a comfortable financial professional.. it's not a jealousy issue for me.

But what they are worth to society is a different matter.

First and Again.. They Unfairly get preferential Cap Gains tax treatment their salaries and Fees.
Yes, they have to coziest/quietest/most effective lobby there is that keeps it that way.
One can't argue that that's fair.

Second, on the New slightly higher bracket...
Top marginal income tax rates were 70%-90% for a good part of the last century. (1930-1980)
I don't think 50% is out of line for $10 mil and up. We're NOT talking about the pikers at 250K.

One has to remember/keep in perspective, that "Class warfare" HAS been waged by the rich and won, since 1980.
So that any even minor move back the other way elicits the Ironic/Assinine cry of ... "class warfare'. (!)
This only works on Right Wing 20/30-somethings with No history, Just Hannity.

keith · Sep 12, 2013

mbig said:
If you'll both note..
I prefaced my OP with the Fact that these guys are worth (in their clients view) what they make.
I agree.. on the best of them anyway. Overall though don't really outperform the market.
As a comfortable financial professional.. it's not a jealousy issue for me.

But what they are worth to society is a different matter.

First and Again.. They Unfairly get preferential Cap Gains tax treatment their salaries and Fees.
Yes, they have to coziest/quietest/most effective lobby there is that keeps it that way.
One can't argue that that's fair.

Second, on the New slightly higher bracket...
Top marginal income tax rates were 70%-90% for a good part of the last century. (1930-1980)
I don't think 50% is out of line for $10 mil and up. We're NOT talking about the pikers at 250K.

One has to remember/keep in perspective, that "Class warfare" HAS been waged by the rich and won, since 1980.
So that any even minor move back the other way elicits the Ironic/Assinine cry of ... "class warfare'. (!)
This only works on Right Wing 20/30-somethings with No history, Just Hannity.

Capital can flee easier than labor and that is why low capital gains taxes are needed. Without capital there are not many jobs. It may not sound fair that capital gains is taxed at lower rates than labor income but it is much more efficent and benefits labor.

Helix · Sep 12, 2013

i'm for taxing investment income as regular income above a certain cap. that seems to be the best strategy.

Fenton · Sep 12, 2013

mbig said:
Almost all of these Big money guys have earned their following; the following that pays
them the Big Bucks.
So one Cannot begrudge the agreement they make with their also-wealthy clients.
Being taxed at the Cap Gains rate however, when it's your Clients money but the manager's Salary/Fees, I feel is decidedly Not in a societies best interest.
In addition to Not getting Cap Gains rate, I am for a 50% Bracket for earners over $10 Million.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/01/business/01hedge.html
Ten years ago, when the hedge fund industry was much smaller than it is today, it took 25 hedge fund managers to earn a combined annual payday of $5 billion. Last year, it took only one.

Even Funds That Lagged Paid Richly
By JULIE CRESWELL
March 31, 2011

I don't think many here know what making a few Billion a Year - not just over a lifetime - really is so:

What a desperately hyperbolic and stupid thread.

The Op had no trouble using demagogy to repeat the Liberal false narrative of " eat the rich."

I mean even Clinton had sense enough to lower Capital Gains taxes and IF you go after " the rich " with punitive percentages of tax, they will simply MOVE.

Their money or themselves. Do you know how economically ignorant you have to be to push this drek ?

To think massive tax increases on the rich FIRST would fund anything but a few IRS getaways, and to think they would take it sittibg down. That they would just pay up.

LOL !!!

It's ridiculous. Some people man.

So you're for ''the rich" either pulling their money out of the econony all together and shoving it into some safe no interest bearing security or forcing them and their money into greener pastuers ?

And you have NO idea what that would do to a already terminal economy ?

Unreal.

Mach · Sep 12, 2013

Yes. Either we all pay between 0-15% so hedge fund managers are the most taxed, or they need to get in the ****ing progressive tax line like the entire rest of the U.S.
They know it's a sweet deal, not a single one of them honestly believes it's on the up and up.

mbig · Sep 12, 2013

Fenton said:
What a desperately hyperbolic and stupid thread.

How so?
I thought I was quite measured.
Crediting them with earning their following And money.
Just that they were not worth as much to society as they were to those clients.
Nor were they entitled to Preferential tax treatment over Other High earners.

You, OTOH, are just another hysteria-driven Straight-line Right Wing Partisano who will go back to arguing for God in the Religion section.

Fenton said:
The Op had no trouble using demagogy to repeat the Liberal false narrative of " eat the rich."
I mean even Clinton had sense enough to lower Capital Gains taxes and IF you go after " the rich " with punitive percentages of tax, they will simply MOVE.
Their money or themselves. Do you know how economically ignorant you have to be to push this drek ?

Me and Warren Buffett that is, not to mention Chief of Goldman Sachs.

Fenton said:
To think massive tax increases on the rich FIRST would fund anything but a few IRS getaways, and to think they would take it sittibg down. That they would just pay up.
LOL !!!
It's ridiculous. Some people man.

The "hyperbole" in this exchange was All Yours.

Fenton said:
So you're for ''the rich" either pulling their money out of the econony all together and shoving it into some safe no interest bearing security or forcing them and their money into greener pastuers ?
And you have NO idea what that would do to a already terminal economy ?
Unreal.

No.
I'm for the Rich's money being Put Back IN the economy instead of hiding in/Piling up in T-Bills at .1%
ie, Using those funds to finance infrastructure jobs... or just plain lower the deficit.
Rich companies and individuals are sitting on Record cash hoards, but because it's so Concentrated it doesn't increase demand/jobs much.
No velocity.

To Summarize, the Hyperbole was ALL yours.
Your partsian hackery all the more ironic since ONE of us Is a Financial professional.
You are way too partsian and immature to even have a debate on this topic.

Hedge Fund Manager: Nice work if you can get it.

mbig

onomatopoeic

ReformCollege

mbig

onomatopoeic

Diving Mullah

CalGun

head of joaquin

keith

Member

mbig

onomatopoeic

keith

Member

Helix

Fenton

Mach

mbig

onomatopoeic

Hedge Fund Manager: Nice work if you can get it.

onomatopoeic

onomatopoeic

Member

onomatopoeic

Member

onomatopoeic

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency