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HEALTHCARE IS ALL ABOUT WHO PAYS FOR WHAT

Lafayette

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Answer from here: Peterson-KFF Health System Tracker

The United States spends significantly more on healthcare than comparable countries, and yet has worse health outcomes. Much of the national conversation has focused on spending on retail prescription drugs and administrative costs as the primary drivers of health spending in the U.S. President Donald Trump has signed executive orders with broad directives to lower prescription drug costs primarily in the Medicare program, and Democratic Presidential candidate Joe Biden’s healthcare plan also aims to lower prescription drug costs by giving the federal government authority to negotiate prices for all purchasers.
While it is true that many brand-name prescription drugs are priced higher in the U.S. than in peer countries, health spending data indicates that other spending categories – particularly hospital and physician payments – are greater drivers of health spending.

The U.S. spends twice as much as comparable countries on health, driven mostly by higher payments to hospitals and physicians

Healthcare in the US is a "racket" run by private-enterprise companies for a profit and individuals for a damn fine salary. The center-point of which are the healthcare-professionals who also earn high salaries. Yes, the doctors and nurses who are key to the profession.

According to the Medscape Physician Compensation Report, in 2018, Primary-Care Physicians in the United States earned on average $237,000, while Specialists earned $341,000.

They don't deserve the money? Well, of course in the US they deserve a more-than-decent salary for this critically key-service. Afterall, unlike my kids here in France, they went to expensive postsecondary schools for their diplomas*! Which most must pay-off once they start earning a salary.

Is that excuse good-enough. NO WAY!

Healthcare is not like lawyering. It is a key-component of our lifestyle and without it you know damn-well what can happen! If you do not agree then do tell me what other service is more important and why. Because this particular healthcare-service is critical to our lifestyle.

PS: A French friend paid his daughter's annual fee for a medical-degree at a state-run school here in France and annually that cost around $750 per year (in Euros) - not including room&board! She is now a registered professional physician.
 

bave

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Answer from here: Peterson-KFF Health System Tracker

Healthcare in the US is a "racket" run by private-enterprise companies for a profit and individuals for a damn fine salary. The center-point of which are the healthcare-professionals who also earn high salaries. Yes, the doctors and nurses who are key to the profession.

According to the Medscape Physician Compensation Report, in 2018, Primary-Care Physicians in the United States earned on average $237,000, while Specialists earned $341,000.

They don't deserve the money? Well, of course in the US they deserve a more-than-decent salary for this critically key-service. Afterall, unlike my kids here in France, they went to expensive postsecondary schools for their diplomas*! Which most must pay-off once they start earning a salary.

Is that excuse good-enough. NO WAY!

Healthcare is not like lawyering. It is a key-component of our lifestyle and without it you know damn-well what can happen! If you do not agree then do tell me what other service is more important and why. Because this particular healthcare-service is critical to our lifestyle.

PS: A French friend paid his daughter's annual fee for a medical-degree at a state-run school here in France and annually that cost around $750 per year (in Euros) - not including room&board! She is now a registered professional physician.

A few things.

First off, the French university system is far from a standard bearer of quality. Aside from one or two institutions they wouldn't compete against our most mediocre universities.

Second off, a French physician works far less and is far less productive than their US peers when compared by wRVUs, the standard method. So work harder, get paid more, foreign concept to some.

Third, only an idiot would send their kid to be a physician in the US at this point. It's a terrible job that is in decline. In the 80's it was a good gig. 90's it was fine. In the 21st century it hit the fan. Longer hours, more stress, less pay. You are seeing huge declines in the quality of students in the US medical education system. The best and the brightest are now heading to finance and tech and have been for some time.

Fourth, there is also a reason why France's economy is such an abysmal failure. State controls and regulations are a great place to start. It is also worth noting that the median household income in France is about half that of the US.
 

vegas giants

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A few things.

First off, the French university system is far from a standard bearer of quality. Aside from one or two institutions they wouldn't compete against our most mediocre universities.

Second off, a French physician works far less and is far less productive than their US peers when compared by wRVUs, the standard method. So work harder, get paid more, foreign concept to some.

Third, only an idiot would send their kid to be a physician in the US at this point. It's a terrible job that is in decline. In the 80's it was a good gig. 90's it was fine. In the 21st century it hit the fan. Longer hours, more stress, less pay. You are seeing huge declines in the quality of students in the US medical education system. The best and the brightest are now heading to finance and tech and have been for some time.

Fourth, there is also a reason why France's economy is such an abysmal failure. State controls and regulations are a great place to start. It is also worth noting that the median household income in France is about half that of the US.
I see no evidence for any of your claims
 

bave

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I've no doubt that's the source, but more specific targeting is needed. Somewhere minimally credible at least.

1) Universities: Per US News & World Report's annual rankings of global universities. France has 3 in the top 150 around the world. The United States has 102 of the top 150. France's top University is ranked ~50th. You get what you pay for in a free educational system in France.

2) wRVU data can be pulled from MGMA data, or if you want specific CMS data, you can pull it directly from HHS/CMS's database which is publicly available.

3) You can pull class ranking and median scores for applicants going into medical programs. You can also check competitive match rank lists and see the same pattern repeat.

4) Which aspect of France's crappy economy? The fact that their median household income is a fraction of that of the US? That their economic growth has greatly lagged their developed peers? Tons of sources on this.
 

Manc Skipper

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There's nothing fits the description of general welfare of the people like universal healthcare. Nobody chooses poor health, and a healthy society cares for it's members in adversity.
 

vegas giants

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1) Universities: Per US News & World Report's annual rankings of global universities. France has 3 in the top 150 around the world. The United States has 102 of the top 150. France's top University is ranked ~50th. You get what you pay for in a free educational system in France.

2) wRVU data can be pulled from MGMA data, or if you want specific CMS data, you can pull it directly from HHS/CMS's database which is publicly available.

3) You can pull class ranking and median scores for applicants going into medical programs. You can also check competitive match rank lists and see the same pattern repeat.

4) Which aspect of France's crappy economy? The fact that their median household income is a fraction of that of the US? That their economic growth has greatly lagged their developed peers? Tons of sources on this.
Yeah this is made up nonsense
 

bave

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Yeah it's not there


I guess you made it up


Thanks


90,000 posts in 4 years. No wonder you are confused, you spend your entire here without a clue rather than learning anything or being productive.
 

LetsGoBrandon

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"The United States spends significantly more on healthcare than comparable countries, and yet has worse health outcomes."

Such articles lose me when they start out with such a half truth. The first part about the US spending the most on healthcare is true, however the last part about worse outcomes is a flat out lie. The same patient treated in the US compared to anywhere else has the best chance of a good outcome in the US. Any so-called bad outcome in the US compared to anywhere else is due to factors outside of the healthcare system, such as obesity, smoking, alcoholism, or a sedentary lifestyle. Technically, the most capable healthcare system on the planet is in the USA. It's just the cost that needs to be addressed, and not by a government takeover of the healthcare system.
 

Lafayette

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SURPRISE, SURPRISE!

Our entire healthcare system is built on a foundation of perverse incentives.

I presume you mean the US when you say "our"?

Here in the European Union (EU), the National Healthcare Systems (NHS) are the prime reason that our lifespan is 3/4 years longer than that of the US. The lifespan acceleration was very pronounced after WW2 not only to replace the war-dead population but also due to the requirement to establishment an NHS in all the countries that joined.

It is considered today so important as to constitute a prime-condition for countries wishing to enter the European Union ...

The dominance of private-healthcare that prevailed in the US since the 19th century was and remains the desire to accumulate riches by avoiding high-taxation.

Which America has succeeded at accomplishing by bringing down upper-income taxation throughout the post-war years thus promoting Capital Accumulation by the rich and super-rich - as shown here:
Top-Incomes-768x549.png


Now isn't that a surprise? Income Unfairness is predominant mainly in the English-speaking countries.

Well, whadaya know about that ... !
 

vegas giants

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90,000 posts in 4 years. No wonder you are confused, you spend your entire here without a clue rather than learning anything or being productive.
I accept your concession
 

danielpalos

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Answer from here: Peterson-KFF Health System Tracker




Healthcare in the US is a "racket" run by private-enterprise companies for a profit and individuals for a damn fine salary. The center-point of which are the healthcare-professionals who also earn high salaries. Yes, the doctors and nurses who are key to the profession.

According to the Medscape Physician Compensation Report, in 2018, Primary-Care Physicians in the United States earned on average $237,000, while Specialists earned $341,000.

They don't deserve the money? Well, of course in the US they deserve a more-than-decent salary for this critically key-service. Afterall, unlike my kids here in France, they went to expensive postsecondary schools for their diplomas*! Which most must pay-off once they start earning a salary.

Is that excuse good-enough. NO WAY!

Healthcare is not like lawyering. It is a key-component of our lifestyle and without it you know damn-well what can happen! If you do not agree then do tell me what other service is more important and why. Because this particular healthcare-service is critical to our lifestyle.

PS: A French friend paid his daughter's annual fee for a medical-degree at a state-run school here in France and annually that cost around $750 per year (in Euros) - not including room&board! She is now a registered professional physician.
In the US, we should be solving this economic issue through equal protection of the laws. More revenue could be recovered from more persons through more general forms of taxation. And, we really could simply "raise the minimum wage to raise more tax revenue" under our form of Capitalism.
 

bave

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Here in the European Union (EU), the National Healthcare Systems (NHS) are the prime reason that our lifespan is 3/4 years longer than that of the US. The lifespan acceleration was very pronounced after WW2 not only to replace the war-dead population but also due to the requirement to establishment an NHS in all the countries that joined.

I would actually argue the EU is healthier because they don't eat as poorly nor are they as obese. Take away those two things and a population gets a hell of a lot healthier.


Now isn't that a surprise? Income Unfairness is predominant mainly in the English-speaking countries.

Well, whadaya know about that ... !

What you fail to mention is that the US has the most progressive tax structure in the world, while the median household income is the highest of any major economy in the world, and has been consistently economically outperforming places like France for *decades*.
 

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I would actually argue the EU is healthier because they don't eat as poorly nor are they as obese. Take away those two things and a population gets a hell of a lot healthier.




What you fail to mention is that the US has the most progressive tax structure in the world, while the median household income is the highest of any major economy in the world, and has been consistently economically outperforming places like France for *decades*.
To eat more healthily is expensive. The American poor, left out of the dream, live in food deserts where only cheap fattening sugar laden food is locally available.
 

bave

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Offering made up shit for evidence doesn't work here.

People here don't even want to try and look things up. They pull the infantile moves of "prove it" then no matter what source, what quality of data they either continue to nonsensically argue or they just disappear.

What specific point do you disagree with and on what basis?
 

bave

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To eat more healthily is expensive. The American poor, left out of the dream, live in food deserts where only cheap fattening sugar laden food is locally available.

In some urban areas that is partially true, but that is also a function of local and national policy. Look at certain cities in the US that are literally allowing crime to go unchecked and wonder why all the businesses leave? Then look at SNAP allowing this crap to be bought with tax dollars? Moreover, you can choose to eat like garbage, not work out, and not manage conditions anywhere on any budget. Lots of poor people aren't obese.
 

vegas giants

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The idea that we can not provide universal healthcare but the rest of the first world can is absolutely ridiculous
 
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